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Need help with an inherited IRA distribution

Moondoggy_1
Moondoggy_1 Member ✭✭
edited August 2018 in Investing (Windows)

I have a messed up set of transactions in my register and I need help to fix them.

I have an inherited IRA from my father who passed away. Since he was taking distributions from that IRA, the IRS requires me to take an annual distribution from that account each year. Once the distribution has been made, Edward Jones Investments retains 25% of the distribution to pay the taxes on the distribution. The remaining 75% of the distribution is invested in a non-IRA mutual fund with Edward Jones.

This year when I downloaded the transactions into Quicken from Edward Jones, I believe that Quicken messed things up a bit and I can't seem to figure out what to do. Here's what I have in my register right now:

Transaction 1 - A Sell transaction of 469.787 shares at a price of 10.330001 per share for a total sale of $4,852.90. This transaction seems to be OK.

Transaction 2 - The action says withdraw but when you click on the transaction itself it says Buy - Shares bought still showing the account and security name but shows blank in the shares, blank in the price paid 0.00 for the commission and -1213.32 as the total cost. The description in the register it shows Federal Tax withheld and Tax/Fed. I think this transaction appears OK as well

Transaction 3. - The action again says withdraw in the register but when you open up the transaction detail it shows blank on the shares, blank on the price, zero commission and -3639.97. In the memo field it says Distribution to cash followed by an account number. When you look at the register the description says Distribution and then in the next drop down within Description it shows the name of my wife's checking account (i.e. [xxxxxx Draft 2] ) which is definitely not correct. If I try and change the second drop down list box from [xxxxx Draft 2] to something else like [Edward Jones Cash Account] I receive a message from Quicken that says "This account is not able to have a cash balance" and it will not allow me to save the transaction.

Transaction 4 - In the register the action says SoldX and when you open up the transaction detail the transaction shows the Inherited IRA in the account name, Shows the mutual fund in the security name, shows 352.710171 for the number of shares, 10.32 for the price received, zero for he commission and $3,639.97 for the total sale which matches the amount listed in transaction #3. Under Record Proceeds It says Edward Jones - Cash Account.

Now when you look at the account overview it now says that based on the results from above I have 9,157.075729 shares in the inherited IRA but if I go out to Edward Jones online it shows that I have 9,509.786 shares instead which is the exact number of shares shown in Transaction #4.

In addition to the above, the non-IRA mutual find that the money from the above transaction was to go shows no such transaction in my register and the balance in that account is understated by the $3,639.97 shown in Transaction 4 and if I look at Edward Jones online it's showing that same amount as cash.

So.... After all of the above, how do I go about fixing this so that my number of shares in my inherited IRA is correct and that my non-IRA account shows the $3,639.97 in cash?

Comments

  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018

    I would consider deleting the 4 transactions and re-entering as outlined in:


    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/faq-best-way-to-handle-distributions-from-ira



    a) also make sure the IRA account is not setup as a Single Mutual fund (SMF) account -- See the Account details.


    b) I suggest that the receiving mutual fund account also not be set up as such an account.


    c) it may be that you'll need to run this through a cash account to get the proper recording and reporting of taxes paid (withheld). In that cash account, you would end up with no change to the dollar amounts in the account.


    d) In each transaction, get the number of shares right and the total dollar figure right. The price per share is immaterial; let Quicken compute that.
  • Moondoggy_1
    Moondoggy_1 Member ✭✭
    edited July 2016
    q.lurker said:


    I would consider deleting the 4 transactions and re-entering as outlined in:


    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/faq-best-way-to-handle-distributions-from-ira



    a) also make sure the IRA account is not setup as a Single Mutual fund (SMF) account -- See the Account details.


    b) I suggest that the receiving mutual fund account also not be set up as such an account.


    c) it may be that you'll need to run this through a cash account to get the proper recording and reporting of taxes paid (withheld). In that cash account, you would end up with no change to the dollar amounts in the account.


    d) In each transaction, get the number of shares right and the total dollar figure right. The price per share is immaterial; let Quicken compute that.

    Sorry but non of this makes sense to me.  I have $3639.97 in my wife's checking account which is not true as there was no distribution of cash made. If I delete the transaction in my wife's checking account it deletes the withdraw transaction (Transaction #3).  If I try and change transaction #3 from a description of Distribution and her account quicken says that any account (existing or created can't be used as the account is not allowed to hold cash.  Even if I create a new payee like (Distribution Cash Account) and try and point it a different account this doesn't work either.
    Can anyone dumb their answer down for me to a simple set of steps?  Any help would be appreciated.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    q.lurker said:


    I would consider deleting the 4 transactions and re-entering as outlined in:


    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/faq-best-way-to-handle-distributions-from-ira



    a) also make sure the IRA account is not setup as a Single Mutual fund (SMF) account -- See the Account details.


    b) I suggest that the receiving mutual fund account also not be set up as such an account.


    c) it may be that you'll need to run this through a cash account to get the proper recording and reporting of taxes paid (withheld). In that cash account, you would end up with no change to the dollar amounts in the account.


    d) In each transaction, get the number of shares right and the total dollar figure right. The price per share is immaterial; let Quicken compute that.

    First, create a backup of your data file.  

    I'll accept at face value that your first transaction is okay.

    Go to the destination account - your non-IRA mutual fund account.  Edit the account details (Ctrl-Shift-E).  Make sure there is not a line indicating the account is a Single Mutual Fund.  If that option appears with the 'Yes' chosen, change it to 'No'.  

    Enter a Deposit transaction in that account - scroll down to the Cash Transactions at the end of the transaction list to find Deposit.

    Select Split in the transaction window and record 2 (or 3) split entries;
    -- The first split is the gross distribution $4,852.90 with the category indicating a transfer from the [IRA Acct].
    -- The second (and third) entries are the fed (and state) withholdings $1,213.32 - with appropriate categories (Fed Tax Withheld, or similar).
    -- The net of this transaction is the net deposit to the non-IRA Acct.
    Accept the transaction entry.

    Now, if those aspect look right, delete the other three transaction (#2, 3, and 4 above) from your original file.

    Now again, review everything to make sure things are okay.

    Carry on.
  • Moondoggy_1
    Moondoggy_1 Member ✭✭
    edited July 2016
    q.lurker said:


    I would consider deleting the 4 transactions and re-entering as outlined in:


    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/faq-best-way-to-handle-distributions-from-ira



    a) also make sure the IRA account is not setup as a Single Mutual fund (SMF) account -- See the Account details.


    b) I suggest that the receiving mutual fund account also not be set up as such an account.


    c) it may be that you'll need to run this through a cash account to get the proper recording and reporting of taxes paid (withheld). In that cash account, you would end up with no change to the dollar amounts in the account.


    d) In each transaction, get the number of shares right and the total dollar figure right. The price per share is immaterial; let Quicken compute that.

    Thanks you for the reply and the suggestion.  I have a few follow-up questions for you though....

    In my original post, I said that transaction #2 was for Federal tax and it looked OK to me.  If it is OK, do you think that I can just get rid of transaction #3 instead of both #2 and #3?  It makes no difference if I need to delete both #2 and #3 do it as you suggested as taxes are taxes I really don't track the taxes in quicken, I only have the entry in quicken to record the event.

    Is it possible to do the above in the IRA account vs. the non-IRA account?.  The reality is that that's where the transactions really belong.

    Transaction #4 is a problem too as it's deleting selling off funds twice which is making my shares understated in that account.  Do I simply delete transaction #4 as well?
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    q.lurker said:


    I would consider deleting the 4 transactions and re-entering as outlined in:


    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/faq-best-way-to-handle-distributions-from-ira



    a) also make sure the IRA account is not setup as a Single Mutual fund (SMF) account -- See the Account details.


    b) I suggest that the receiving mutual fund account also not be set up as such an account.


    c) it may be that you'll need to run this through a cash account to get the proper recording and reporting of taxes paid (withheld). In that cash account, you would end up with no change to the dollar amounts in the account.


    d) In each transaction, get the number of shares right and the total dollar figure right. The price per share is immaterial; let Quicken compute that.

    All answers:  It depends.  

    The reason to report the Fed Tax AH under the non-IRA account is that so Quicken properly sees that transaction in its various reports.  Normally, tax-deferred account (IRAs) are excluded from such reports such that Quicken would not tell you or remind you at a later date that you had that withholding.  As to where transactions really belong -- sort of relative -- they belong where they do you some good.  I see your point, but for me, I'd want the 'reminder' and other reporting to be complete.

    #4, I did not understand when you first presented it.  If it doesn't make sense to you, delete it.  I do not treat the information provided through downloads from the FI as gospel-truths.  The information has to make sense to me, which is why I review transactions and try not to treat Quicken as a magical black box.
  • Moondoggy_1
    Moondoggy_1 Member ✭✭
    edited July 2016
    q.lurker said:


    I would consider deleting the 4 transactions and re-entering as outlined in:


    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/faq-best-way-to-handle-distributions-from-ira



    a) also make sure the IRA account is not setup as a Single Mutual fund (SMF) account -- See the Account details.


    b) I suggest that the receiving mutual fund account also not be set up as such an account.


    c) it may be that you'll need to run this through a cash account to get the proper recording and reporting of taxes paid (withheld). In that cash account, you would end up with no change to the dollar amounts in the account.


    d) In each transaction, get the number of shares right and the total dollar figure right. The price per share is immaterial; let Quicken compute that.

    OK....  I have more issues.......

    I went to the non-IRA account like you said and edited the account and I didn't even see an option for a Single Mutual Fund.  Assuming that this was good I attempted to enter a cash transaction into the account and there's no option to enter a cash transaction in this account when I either select action in the register or press the enter transactions button.  I checked the "Action" gear at the top of the registry and there was an entry there called "Update Cash Balance but when I selected it an info message popped up that said "You cannot reconcile or update the balance of a CMA-linked investment account because it's cash balance is always zero.  To reconcile the cash balance go to the linked bank account."  I looked at HELP and it said to link an account I needed to go to the account list and edit the account and select the YES option.  I edited the account from the Accounts List like it said and the YES option is selected but I have no idea if I selected this option when I set the account up to begin with or whether this was the default option and I don't see anything on that applet that tells me what other account is linked to this account.  I can certainly select the NO option but I'm not sure what the impact might be if I did to any linked account.  Probably nothing but I thought I would run it by you first before I did.   Any thoughts or ideas regarding this linked account option?
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    q.lurker said:


    I would consider deleting the 4 transactions and re-entering as outlined in:


    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/faq-best-way-to-handle-distributions-from-ira



    a) also make sure the IRA account is not setup as a Single Mutual fund (SMF) account -- See the Account details.


    b) I suggest that the receiving mutual fund account also not be set up as such an account.


    c) it may be that you'll need to run this through a cash account to get the proper recording and reporting of taxes paid (withheld). In that cash account, you would end up with no change to the dollar amounts in the account.


    d) In each transaction, get the number of shares right and the total dollar figure right. The price per share is immaterial; let Quicken compute that.

    If you have a linked cash account associated with your non-IRA mutual fund account, then the split transaction gets entered into that linked account.  

    (FWIW:  such a linked cash account is somewhat illusory.  You can pretty much toggle it on/off at will.  Personally, I don't use them although others do quite effectively.  What is superficially happening is that Quicken is just forcing all the cash related transactions to a separate account transaction list, thus the cash-related options are omitted from the investment side of the pairing.)
  • Moondoggy_1
    Moondoggy_1 Member ✭✭
    edited July 2016
    q.lurker said:


    I would consider deleting the 4 transactions and re-entering as outlined in:


    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/faq-best-way-to-handle-distributions-from-ira



    a) also make sure the IRA account is not setup as a Single Mutual fund (SMF) account -- See the Account details.


    b) I suggest that the receiving mutual fund account also not be set up as such an account.


    c) it may be that you'll need to run this through a cash account to get the proper recording and reporting of taxes paid (withheld). In that cash account, you would end up with no change to the dollar amounts in the account.


    d) In each transaction, get the number of shares right and the total dollar figure right. The price per share is immaterial; let Quicken compute that.

    OK but with my changes, my non-IRA account is now showing the everything correctly.  I have the cash added into that account and there's a subsequent transaction in the account where my broker used all of the cash to buy more shares of the mutual fund so the account no longer has any cash.  When I look at the number of shares in the account it's 100% accurate.  When I look at the account list on the left side of Quicken the value of the non-IRA account is 100% accurate as well (# of shares x price per share).  So all is good here.

    My problem is with the IRA account.  After making some adjustments to this account, if you look at the account overview, the number of shares in this account is accurate, the cost per share is accurate and the market value of the account overview is accurate.  The problem is that when  you look at the account list on the left side of the register it says that the account value is $163,160.56 not the market value of $100,042.94.  The value of the account list is overstated by $63,117.62.  At this point I've searched the forum site for questions about the account list not being the same as the real value and there seems to be several questions in this regard but no answers.  Any thoughts on how to get the account list value to be accurate?
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    q.lurker said:


    I would consider deleting the 4 transactions and re-entering as outlined in:


    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/faq-best-way-to-handle-distributions-from-ira



    a) also make sure the IRA account is not setup as a Single Mutual fund (SMF) account -- See the Account details.


    b) I suggest that the receiving mutual fund account also not be set up as such an account.


    c) it may be that you'll need to run this through a cash account to get the proper recording and reporting of taxes paid (withheld). In that cash account, you would end up with no change to the dollar amounts in the account.


    d) In each transaction, get the number of shares right and the total dollar figure right. The price per share is immaterial; let Quicken compute that.

    Things I'd do to upon seeing an account bar difference from the other reports:
    1)  Check that the Account bar (on the left) was set for current values - right-click on a blank spot in the account bar, choose the current value selection.
    2)  Exit and restart Quicken
    3)  have Quicken copy my data file and then validate and repair the copy of the data file - first without rebuilding investment lots, and then if no change, with rebuilding investment lots.  

    These three are independent of each other, any one might correct the discrepancy.  There is no implied need to do them in this order.  It may also be that none would correct the discrepancy.
  • Moondoggy_1
    Moondoggy_1 Member ✭✭
    edited July 2016
    q.lurker said:


    I would consider deleting the 4 transactions and re-entering as outlined in:


    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/faq-best-way-to-handle-distributions-from-ira



    a) also make sure the IRA account is not setup as a Single Mutual fund (SMF) account -- See the Account details.


    b) I suggest that the receiving mutual fund account also not be set up as such an account.


    c) it may be that you'll need to run this through a cash account to get the proper recording and reporting of taxes paid (withheld). In that cash account, you would end up with no change to the dollar amounts in the account.


    d) In each transaction, get the number of shares right and the total dollar figure right. The price per share is immaterial; let Quicken compute that.

    OK.  Thanks.

    Apparently #1 and #2 didn't result in a change in the account list's value.

    As an FYI.  I reloaded a backup taken from 2/1/2015 and re-did everything but did things a bit different this time.  I left transaction #3 in place which caused my wife's checking account to be overstated by the distribution amount to compensate.  When I downloaded the transactions from Edward Jones into this account I noticed that the deposit in cash was being made from my checking account not my wife's so I change the deposit so it came from my wife's account instead.  Everything balances so the number of shares, price per share and the balance in my accounts list is 100% accurate again.

    On the IRA account noted that there was a placeholder attached to this account and when I looked at it two of the placeholder entries were from the 2014 distribution which I somewhat remember was bungled up last year also and apparently whatever I did to fix it was not right.  I deleted these two placeholder transactions and the number of shares in the account once again matched what Edward Jones says I have.  Unfortunately, the balance in the Accounts list is still off but only by $3,422.45 which appears to be the exact amount of the 2014 cash distribution that I previously stated was messed up and not entered well.  Apparently, there is something in the records, like you said, is not correct and perhaps the only way around this problem is to have Quicken copy the data and do validations and repairs.  My other option is just to be aware that the balance in the Accounts list for the IRA doesn't match that of the actual market value of the shares.

    At least at this point, I can balance both my checking account and that of my wife and everything else is OK.

    Thanks for your help and if you have anymore thoughts on this discrepancy, let me know.
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