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How can I transfer ESPP shares from one account to another? When I try to transfer from the ESPP acc

davidsgibson1
davidsgibson1 Member ✭✭✭
edited February 2019 in Investing (Windows)
In Quicken, ESPP purchases of the security * are logged as the security *_ESPP.

When I try transferring shares out of my ESPP account (where they are all recorded as *_ESPP shares) using the "Shares Transferred Between Accounts" transaction type, there is no *_ESPP security listed in the drop down list of securities in the transfer window. If I try selecting the * security and choose "Specific Lots," then I get the error message "There are not enough open shares to cover your request (presumably because all the shares in the account are of type *_ESPP).

How can I move shares from my ESPP account to a brokerage account and not lose all of the information I need to correctly calculate taxes when the shares are sold?

Comments

  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • davidsgibson1
    davidsgibson1 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    mshiggins said:

    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.

    Thanks for the suggestion, but I can't get this to do what I want. I tried it, and yes, I can transfer all the securities from the ESPP account to another, even if the security is not listed in the drop down list. If I then delete all of the "Added" transactions in the target account that I don't want, I can get the proper balance in the new account, with all the ESPP information preserved in the remaining entry. However, when I try to go back to the original ESPP account, the entire transaction has been lumped into a single "Remove" entry for the total number of shares originally transferred. If I try to edit the number of shares transferred to reflect changes due to the lots deleted in the target account, it won't let me, saying I have to edit it in the target account to maintain the integrity of ESPP calculations. When I try deleting the entire Remove transaction and creating a new "Remove - Shares Removed" or "Adjust Share Balance" transaction, I am back to the problem of not being able to identify the proper security in the drop down menu to select which security to remove.

    Any other suggestions? If I can just find a way to remove specific ESPP shares from an account I think I can get this to work. I suppose I could use a "Sold ESPP Shares" transaction, but that generates cash and, more importantly, is not an accurate record of what actually happened.
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.

    Select a transaction date for the Shares Transferred Between Accounts pseudo transaction for a date when only the shares you wish to transfer are in the source account. After the shares are transferred, you should then be able to edit the Remove to the actual date.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • davidsgibson1
    davidsgibson1 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    mshiggins said:

    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.

    Well, that's an interesting idea, but I'm afraid there was no time when the shares I want to transfer were the only ones in the account. I was transferring the shares with the smallest basis, and those were not the oldest shares. Any other ideas?
  • UKR
    UKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    IIRC, you first have to exercise your option and buy shares of security * in your ESPP account.


    Those shares you can then transfer to your other investment account.
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    UKR said:


    IIRC, you first have to exercise your option and buy shares of security * in your ESPP account.


    Those shares you can then transfer to your other investment account.

    Not possible in recent versions. ESPPs are not available for a standard shares transferred.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.

    Nope. Those are the current constraints.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.

    You could shell game it. In the ESPP account, sell all the shares except the shares you want to transfer. Then enter the Shares Transferred Between Accounts pseudo transaction to remove the desired shares. Finally, delete all the Sell transactions and any ordinary income transactions the Sells had spawned.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • davidsgibson1
    davidsgibson1 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    mshiggins said:

    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.

    Hmm, well if I'm going to play games like that, seems that I might just as well sell the ESPP shares in the ESPP account (the ones I want to transfer) for the original purchase price, transfer the proceeds to the target account, and then repurchase the ESPP shares in the target account. See any problem with that? That would avoid the need to go through the "transfer all shares and then delete those I don't want" exercise. Not sure how that will impact tax calculations, but it seems like there's a decent chance that they might turn out right. What do you think?
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.

    What dates would you use for the purchase in the transfer to account? The dates on the Buy ESPP transaction have to be correct for the discount and tax calculations at the sale to be right.

    Does the ESPP financial institution not allow you to sell your shares? Why are you transferring the shares?
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • davidsgibson1
    davidsgibson1 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    mshiggins said:

    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.

    I want to transfer the shares because I want to use them for an in-kind charitable contribution, and I would also like to be able to sell covered calls against them, neither of which my ESPP account allows.

    Regarding the dates on the buy ESPP transaction, yes, you are right - it was a factor for this exercise. The path for the entire transaction was to move a specific lot of low basis ESPP shares to my brokerage account, then donate part of that lot to my charitable giving account. My plan was to sell for no gain the ESPP shares in the brokerage that I was donating, then buy the same number of ordinary shares at the same price I had sold the ESPP shares, effectively converting the ESPP shares to ordinary shares in my brokerage account with the same basis. Then, I could easily transfer the ordinary shares to my charitable giving account, and they would have the proper basis (not a factor for taxes, but something I would still like to be able to track). (NOTE: In my ESPP purchase transaction, I used the transfer date as the date of the transaction, but kept the original dates for the start and end of the ESPP period).

    When I sold the ESPP shares, quicken created two transactions (a "Sold" and a "MiscInc") and split the proceeds between those two. The problem you mentioned above caused all of the gain between the purchase price and the market price at the end of the ESPP period to be listed in the MiscInc transaction as ordinary income, since the sale was less than a year after the transaction date. I was able to fix the problem by adjusting the per share price of the sale upward. Note that as long as the purchase price was above the value of the stock at the end of the ESPP period, the MiscInc value will always be a fixed value, $X. By increasing the per share price of the sale to generate $X more than the desired basis, the additional gain in the Sold transaction was also $X. This allowed me to then delete the MiscInc transaction for $X, and have the remaining Sold transaction correctly report the proceeds of the sale to produce no net gain. I was then able to purchase regular shares with these proceeds and transfer them to my giving account.

    Although this seems to have worked, it is quite a kluge. Transferring ESPP shares between accounts seems to me to be something that Quicken should support. Not sure I see any great technical obstacles in supporting this, so I'm not sure why they couldn't do it (other than perhaps that they didn't think of it).
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.

    Earlier year versions did allow transferring ESPP shares. I'm not sure exactly when it dropped out, there were a number of years where I did not have a need to transfer ESPPs. It would be good to have the functionality back.

    You can suggest this using the feedback site discussed in this FAQ topic:

    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-faq-how-do-i-submit-feedback-on-quicken
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • davidsgibson1
    davidsgibson1 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    mshiggins said:

    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.

    I just did. Thanks for helping me with this. Not sure I would have come to this conclusion without your help.
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    The only way to transfer ESPP shares between accounts is to use Shares Transferred Between Accounts and select the checkbox to transfer all securities in the account.

    You can then delete any unneeded Remove or Add Shares transactions.

    You are quite welcome!
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
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