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ESPP vs non-ESPP Securities Comparison Mismatch issue - Q2015 Windows R11 (24.1.11.1)

Unknown
Unknown Member
edited February 2019 in Investing (Windows)
In my brokerage account I have 100 ESPP shares with a security name of "xxx ESPP".  I also have 1 (one) share of xxx that does NOT have ESPP in the name in the same account that was purchased via dividend reinvestment (and thus isn't an ESPP share).   The ESPP shares were transferred out of a dedicated ESPP account maintained by xxx's transfer agent to my prime brokerage (largely because I got fed up with their paperwork requirements to do anything other than sell shares).

Every time I do a download for the account, I get a Securities Comparison Mismatch report for xxx, listing the total brokerage position of 101, which matches to 1 share (the non-ESPP share) and another line showing the 100 xxx ESPP shares in Quicken with no match at the brokerage.  

Any way to fix this?  Apparently Quicken only allows one security in Quicken to match one security in the brokerage account, so I can't match both xxx ESPP and xxx in Quicken to xxx in the brokerage acct.  Do I redo the div. reinvestment buy transaction to buy xxx ESPP even though it isn't an ESPP purchase (with all the wacky sales rules)?  I tried a Corporate Name Change; no go. Corporate Acquisition doesn't seem like a good way to convert the name (and I didn't want to reprice the security). 

Running 2015 Quicken Premier R11 (24.1.11.1)

Comments

  • Bob_L
    Bob_L SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Your analysis of the situation is correct. You can continue with two securities with the same symbol but every time you download you will need to select the transaction in the download tab, go to the register and edit the transaction to the security you want, and then delete the downloaded transaction in the downloaded transactions tab.(Probably also better to clear the matched to online security and set it to the one that is downloaded the most)

    Some of us really old timers continue to use the above approach, typically because we set goals for our securities, which can be different between accounts.  It does however create an added burden for downloads and there is no guarantee that future versions will allow it to continue since it is not officially supported (In fact back in 2014 its usage lead to all kinds of file corruption that wasn't fixed until 2015).

    Best thing to do to be safe is to edit the transactions to just one security.
    Quicken Premier Subscription, Windows 10 Home
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Bob_L
    Bob_L SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.

    Mary,
    Good point about posting an "Idea".  What abut the same security in an IRA and a non-IRA account. What about same security in different accounts but different goals?

    Are you coming around to the two securities with same symbol world?  I have fought for this for a long time, but I am starting to feel like one of those Japanese soldiers holding out on some island long after world war II ended,which is why I am reluctant to ever recommend it.  (it took me a whole year to get the file corruption problem fixed)
    Quicken Premier Subscription, Windows 10 Home
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.

    Bob, the same security in an IRA and in a brokerage is not the same as an ESPP and a regular stock in one account.


    In the case of the same security in an IRA and in a brokerage account, the same symbol is used and the tax treatment difference is handled at the account level.


    In the case of an ESPP and regular stock in the same account, again the stock symbol is the same, but the tax treatment difference is handled by security type.


    image
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Bob_L
    Bob_L SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.

    So then he should continue with two different securities, unless tax tracking can be handled separately.
    Quicken Premier Subscription, Windows 10 Home
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.

    The  tax tracking for ESPPs in Quicken is very good. I would not want to trade the automated tax handling to "fix" an issue with securities mismatch reports that can be ignored.


    I would recommend the OP keep the two different security types so he retains the benefit of automated tax handling.


    Edit: In fact, I don't think you can change an ESPP to a regular security or vice versa. So pretty much a moot point.

    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.

    Then I gather the OP just needs to manually deal with the fact that the brokerage downloads the two holdings as a single security.  Data comes in one way; Quicken offers a placeholder, User rejects placeholder while recognizing the totals are correct.  

    The OP asks:  Anyway to fix this?
    Mshiggins answer is:  No.  
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.

    Lurker, spot on as usual.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited August 2016
    mshiggins said:

    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.

    [OK, what's an "OP"?  Ordinary Person? Outrageous Pissant?...]

    Bob, Mary -
    I argue that it's one security, not two.  xxx has the same CUSIP, price, etc. whether it was purchased via ESPP, bought on the open market, received as an inheritance, etc. The tax treatment of a given lot is different; ESPPs get that funky handling of the purchase discount, most other acquisitions of stocks just have a price and a date.  ESPPs aren't forced to be in dedicated, restricted accounts (a la IRAs) so they can be commingled with non-ESPP lots in a normal brokerage account; it's up to the taxpayer to keep track of which lot has what characteristics.
    Unfortunately, whomever designed the ESPP functionality way back in the '80s (it's been around a long time...) flagged the ESPPs via the security name (and thus you have two different securities) instead of by creating a lot-specific indicator in the same security.  It would not have been my preferred design but I can certainly understand how it got designed that way.

    -----------

    As long as you don't mix ESPP and non-ESPP shares in a single account, Quicken works just fine; it will match an online security for each of the accounts and the share quantities will balance out OK.

    -----------

    I haven't decided to do it quite yet, but one alternative to the dilemma is to record the non-ESPP purchase as an ESPP purchase but code the various fields in the wizard so there is no purchase discount. Thus Quicken won't calculate earned income for the purchase discount and adjust the purchase basis for capital gains accordingly.   A quick test indicates this works.  In the ESPP purchase wizard you set it up like this: 
      Offer date: on or before purchase date
      Ending date: purchase date
      price on offering date:  purchase price
      price on ending date: purchase price
      discount rate: 0%

    -----------
    No, you can't 'convert' ESPP shares to regular shares.  That would be cheating the IRS out of their expected taxes on the purchase discount, although I suppose you could instruct your broker to record a 'wash sale' (not sure how Quicken's wash sale stuff interacts with ESPP, though) and pay off the purchase discount(s) in advance.

    You can, of course, remove the ESPP shares and add them back in as regular shares with a backdated acquisition date, but if you have many lots (I have had one lot per pay period from the early 80's to '11) a whole lot of manual work for not a lot of value.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.

    OP = Original Poster or Original Post, depending on context.  We try to avoid name-calling and slanderous word usage around here - for the most part.  Some does slip through but not in this case  
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited August 2016
    mshiggins said:

    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.

    Thanks!
  • Bob_L
    Bob_L SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.

    You could also go into edit, preferences, downloaded transactions and clear the Compare to Portfolio for just that one account if you like.
    Quicken Premier Subscription, Windows 10 Home
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    mshiggins said:

    I disagree with Bob_L's suggestion. The ESPPs and dividends are two different securities with two different tax treatments.



    It is the brokerage who is sending only one security, but that is because they likely have no way of knowing the shares of xxx are really xxx-ESPP.



    You can submit an idea here to suggest Quicken add a way for brokerages to tell if shares transferred in are a different type than normal. But I suspect there are only a small percentage of Quicken users who track ESPPs and an even smaller percentage who track ESPPs that have been transferred.



    I have a similar situation with my ESPPs and the dividends at Fidelity. I just note the discrepancy reported in the share counts and ignore it.

    Seems like a simple solution.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
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