Add Ability to Transfer Shares between Investment Accounts in Quicken for Mac (183 Legacy Votes)

2»

Comments

  • John Burgess
    John Burgess Member ✭✭
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    My preferred solution is none of the above. I think the correct way to handle it is wth a “transfer” transaction similar to the way cash is transferred from one account to another. Quicken would have to learn to track basis cost, etc. across that transfer transaction. This preserves history the way it actually happened.


    If only one of the three proposals can be picked, then Option 2, because this is the closest to preserving history the way it happened.


    As another user said, it is most important to always get the correct answer. The second most important is to preserve history.
  • Mark Wallace
    Mark Wallace Member ✭✭
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    What @John Burgess said.
  • moski
    moski Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    I seem to be in the minority of this small sample size, but to me it's more important to maintain the records for a particular security intact so that I can report on how THAT SECURITY is performing over time. If I have moved a security from one account to another, it's because I want to keep and track that security but I don't care about the manager.  So I guess my preference is closer to Option 1, which is how QM2007 worked as best I can remember.  Whatever the method, QM2018 needs to correctly understand that moving shares does not drive anything in the Realized Gains category. Right now my Realized Gains report is meaningless because it includes a lot of data from Move Shares transactions that has inflated the numbers in both directions.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    I agree with John Burgess
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    Number two or Number four (the John Burgess suggestion for a new, magical type of transfer transaction -- which I suspect isn't feasible but sounds good!).
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    And I would suggest that whatever the way, any drag and drop should simply trigger the same process... not something different.

    And BTW, QM2007 does not have any way to transfer shares between accounts. You have to manually create remove and add shares, with all the implications this has. 
    Have Questions? Help Guide for Quicken for Mac
    FAQs: Quicken Mac Quicken Windows Quicken Mobile
    Add your VOTE to Quicken for Mac Product Ideas

    Object to Quicken's business model, using up 25% of your screen? Add your vote here:
    Quicken should eliminate the LARGE Ad space when a subscription expires

    (Canadian
    user since '92, STILL using QM2007)
  • SVanDee
    SVanDee Member ✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Agree with John Burgess. #2 for sure of the 3 options described.  Must keep transactions prior to the transfer in the old account in order to study or compare accounts on dates prior to the transfer but need the complete lot history in the new account in order to calculate capital gains correctly.

    But, if I understand what John proposed, it would solve a problem with Transfers in Quicken Windows that's caused me grief in the past. If you discover an error in a transaction in the old account and correct it, Quicken Windows does NOT automatically update the lot history(s) in accounts the security has been Transferred to. You have to manually undo the Transfer - delete the Remove transaction in the old account and all the Add transactions in the new account - and enter the Transfer again.  With automatic dividend reinvestment, there can be a LOT of Add transactions. Deleting them manually is tedious and error prone.

    If you transferred the security multiple times (my data goes back to the 1980s), you have to correct each of the transfers and in the correct order - same order as the original Transfers - or your cost basis will be incorrect. This error is really hard to detect. (Don't ask me how I know.)

    I think John's proposing that Quicken "remember" the link from the addition of the security to the new account back to where it was removed from the old account so any changes in the old account would be automatically copied to the new account. Wonderful idea!
  • John Burgess
    John Burgess Member ✭✭
    edited November 2019

    Agree with John Burgess. #2 for sure of the 3 options described.  Must keep transactions prior to the transfer in the old account in order to study or compare accounts on dates prior to the transfer but need the complete lot history in the new account in order to calculate capital gains correctly.

    But, if I understand what John proposed, it would solve a problem with Transfers in Quicken Windows that's caused me grief in the past. If you discover an error in a transaction in the old account and correct it, Quicken Windows does NOT automatically update the lot history(s) in accounts the security has been Transferred to. You have to manually undo the Transfer - delete the Remove transaction in the old account and all the Add transactions in the new account - and enter the Transfer again.  With automatic dividend reinvestment, there can be a LOT of Add transactions. Deleting them manually is tedious and error prone.

    If you transferred the security multiple times (my data goes back to the 1980s), you have to correct each of the transfers and in the correct order - same order as the original Transfers - or your cost basis will be incorrect. This error is really hard to detect. (Don't ask me how I know.)

    I think John's proposing that Quicken "remember" the link from the addition of the security to the new account back to where it was removed from the old account so any changes in the old account would be automatically copied to the new account. Wonderful idea!

    I can understand that my idea may be difficult or impossible to implement.
    But option 2 is at best a hack.. as SVanDee pointed out, every lot that existed at the time of the transfer would have to be duplicated in the new account, and each would have to have an “effective date”, price, and quantity matching the original purchase — unless the lot had been partially sold prior to the transfer. ... ugly at best.

    Thinking through all those details is what quicken does, so we don’t have to do it manually, right?
  • moski
    moski Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    I don't open my old copy of QM2007 anymore but I think this assertion is wrong. There was a "move shares" button that you could access from somewhere, the Securities window as I recall, that allowed you to transfer the entire history of a security from one account to another. I know because I did it and it worked great. Those accounts that I transferred BEFORE the move to QM2018 now show the history for the full length of time that I've owned the securities in them.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    @moski: In Quicken 2007, there are Move Shares In and Move Shares Out investment actions. Move Shares In let you add shares to an investment account without transferring the money for their purchase from another Quicken account -- typically for setting up a security you owned prior to starting to use Quicken. But it doesn't moves the shares to another account, nor does it do anything to maintain history. So you could move a security from one account to another using Move Out shares from the original account, then Move In shares to the new account -- but that didn't maintain any history. (If you wanted to maintain the complete history for a security, you'd have to re-create all transactions from the initial acquisition date in the new account.)
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • moski
    moski Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    So I don't mean to start a war or anything, but I still maintain that you could move shares into another account and maintain all the history. I know because I did this...just didn't remember how. So I went back to the QM2007 manual and found the method...here is a screen grab of that.  And I have confirmed that all those securities which I had in the old account transferred the activity not only to the new account in QM2007 but these transaction made their way into QM2018 (which you would expect).  So this feature was not hard to implement in QM2007...why so difficult in QM2018?  image
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    No war, just sharing information!

    Two quick things... I wasn't aware you could drag a security from one account to another like that in Quicken 2007; you mentioned Move Shares above, so that's what I had been responding to. The drag method you cite seems useful if maintaining an accurate record of your brokerage accounts isn't needed, since it simply moves the security since the beginning of time -- so it solves one problem (maintaining a security's history) but creates a different one (altering an account's history); the right solution for each user would depend on what history the user wanted most.

    Second, you say "this feature was not hard to implement in QM2007...why so difficult in QM2018?" Well, we don't actually know if it was easy to implement in Quicken 2007, do we? Just because the feature existed doesn't mean it was easy. And of course the database architecture in the two products is very different, some something that was easy in one may or may not be similarly easy in the other. Most importantly, though, implementing a robust solution isn't particularly simple, as this thread makes clear. The Quicken 2007 solution you referenced addresses security history but destroys account history; it also requires manually adjusting transfers affected by the move. An ideal solution would maintain history for both accounts and the security -- but that's not easy to accomplish. And that's what Quicken Eli's post and the responses that follow are discussing.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    I never knew about this drag and drop feature to move shares in QM2007 (which can only be done in the Portfolio view). Never needed to do this so never discovered it (or discovered it a long time ago but never had a need for it and so forgot about it; I'm one to read manuals cover to cover, so the latter is likely the case). (Re-)Learned something new today. :-)

    And BTW, this is an all or nothing type move in QM2007.
    Have Questions? Help Guide for Quicken for Mac
    FAQs: Quicken Mac Quicken Windows Quicken Mobile
    Add your VOTE to Quicken for Mac Product Ideas

    Object to Quicken's business model, using up 25% of your screen? Add your vote here:
    Quicken should eliminate the LARGE Ad space when a subscription expires

    (Canadian
    user since '92, STILL using QM2007)
  • moski
    moski Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    Yes, agreed, the method I pointed out did maintain the records for the security and not the account. And that is what I wanted for my purposes, as I was moving all my securities from one account to another as I followed my advisor to the new firm. I could see where if you were measuring one set of advisers against another, then maintaining account metrics would be more important.  I guess my comments about "it was easy" was simply to imply that it had been done before, so there must be some institutional knowledge about how that worked. I lead a software development company, though, so I know how sometimes this institutional knowledge can get lost if it's not well documented...or the knowledge can become less relevant if the underlying architectures change significantly.
  • Rick2022
    Rick2022 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019

    This is definitely a good suggestion!  We would like to run a quick poll among the people who have requested this feature or those who might need it in the future.  We would like to know which of a few approaches would be most useful to you:

    1. Based on Security, move ALL transactions from one Account to another.  This would include current positions, closed positions, dividends, return of capital, splits, etc.  The advantage is that it would bring along all of your history for reporting, etc.  But the drawback is that it does not quite match what is happening in the real world, if you are switching to a different brokerage or advisor.  For example, if you want to look at the performance of your old advisor versus your new advisor, this would make it harder to see.  Another disadvantage is that if you move all of the history to the new account, then you connect to the FI for that account, they will probably send down a bunch of Add Shares transactions and you will essentially have duplicate data that you will have to clean up
    2. Based on Security, automatically create a "Remove Shares" transaction for the entire position to remove the shares from the old account, and then create one or more "Add Shares" transactions in the new account.  There would be one "Add Shares" for each open Lot, and it would accurately reflect the Acquisition Date (for Holding Period), as well as the correct cost basis for Capital Gains.  All of the original Buys, Sells, Dividends, etc. would remain in the old account.  You could then accurately report on either account individually, or on the combination of two or more accounts to look at the entire history.  This more accurately reflects what happens in the real world when you transfer shares from one brokerage to another.  It should also work correctly when you download transactions from both the old and the new FI.   ***NOTE*** - Several people have reported errors in performance calculations and Capital Gains reporting for this Add/Remove scenario.  We are analyzing those issues and plan to make sure any issues  are addressed.
    3. Allow Drag-and-Drop of individual investment transactions, or a group of transactions.  It is simply an automated version of deleting a transaction from one account and adding an equivalent transaction to the other account.  This sounds nice, and flexible, but it could lead to significant issues.  For example, if you have a Buy of 100 shares and a Sell of the same 100 shares, then you move the Buy to a different account, but leave the Sell in the original account, you will now have 100 shares in the new account, and a short position of -100 shares in the old account.  It also could cause "interesting" issues if there are Placeholder transactions in the account.  When you move the Buy transaction out of the old account, the Placeholder would be recalculated and essentially replace them in the old account.  Another problem that comes up is handling shares that have already been sold using specific lot assignment.  These relationships could get destroyed when individual transactions are moved around.
    Let us know (in comments here) what you prefer and PLEASE try to explain WHY it works better for your situation.
    Well, I prefer #3.  Select, drag & drop.  

    Here is what I have;

    A group under "Investments" called "College Funds".  In this group there are several bank accounts (some with 0 balance, and several mutual funds from different companies like American Century, Franklin Templeton, etc.).  I have data in this group going back to 1988.  I would not be moving any investments from this group that has a 0 balance. Once completed, this group would be hidden.

    It seems that I can not download from the mutual fund companies as there are several fund companies in this group.  Therefore, I need the select, drag & drop so that I can create a group (Bankname College) for the 1 existing bank, filter "College Funds" for those bank transactions, select, drag and drop to the new group. Then do the mutual funds the same way - American Century College, etc.

    Yes my daughter is out of college  but these are left over college funds that I'd like to distinguish when I merge this data to her Quicken file.  And with each in its own group by financial institution, automatic downloads could be established making managing the data with automatic updates easier.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1994
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Quicken Marcus In what version has this supposedly been implemented? It does not exist in QMac v5.10.
    Have Questions? Help Guide for Quicken for Mac
    FAQs: Quicken Mac Quicken Windows Quicken Mobile
    Add your VOTE to Quicken for Mac Product Ideas

    Object to Quicken's business model, using up 25% of your screen? Add your vote here:
    Quicken should eliminate the LARGE Ad space when a subscription expires

    (Canadian
    user since '92, STILL using QM2007)
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    I see that this was just released tonight as par to v5.11. :)
    Have Questions? Help Guide for Quicken for Mac
    FAQs: Quicken Mac Quicken Windows Quicken Mobile
    Add your VOTE to Quicken for Mac Product Ideas

    Object to Quicken's business model, using up 25% of your screen? Add your vote here:
    Quicken should eliminate the LARGE Ad space when a subscription expires

    (Canadian
    user since '92, STILL using QM2007)
  • Lawrence Brigham
    Lawrence Brigham Member ✭✭
    I Vote for option #3
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    @Lawrence Brigham You responded to a bit of an old thread. The functionality to to transfer securities between accounts was added in the last update. They did not implement the option you said you'd prefer, however, because of the potential for drag-and-drop movement of transactions to cause unexpected and unintended consequences (as explained in Eli's post above). This is what they did implement:
    In 5.11, we've added a new feature that allows you to transfer one security or all your securities from one account to another. By using this feature, Quicken will automatically create Remove and Add Share transactions in the respective accounts and maintain the cost basis information from one account to the other. Add a transaction as you normally would in your investment account and select Transfer Shares in the transaction type to start the process or click on the Transfer Shares button in the Remove Shares form.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
This discussion has been closed.