Lifetime Planner 2017 Premier r4 "What if" changes cannot possbly be right on Win10 PC

I have several retirement accounts set up, one being a 401(k) with a $5,000 per year deducted from paycheck. When I click 'what if' and change the amount to $24,000 per year and no other changes, the details report an increase in assets of around $3,000 at retirement. Retirement being in 10 years?
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Comments

  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    There is a long standing bug with the Lifetime Planner 401(k) and IRA contribution limits. The limits are much lower than they should be.



    The workaround is to add multiple contributions. To get to $24000, I would try 3 contributions of $8000 each.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Pat in KCPat in KC Member
    edited March 2017
    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?
  • mistertheplaguemistertheplague Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    LTP won't incorporate a user's debt reduction plan, if they have one. It's unclear if this is a universal bug or only affects some users.
  • User500327User500327 Member
    edited October 2018
    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.
  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    The inability to include a debt reduction plan only affects some users.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    Pat, you can quite easily work around the 401(k) limit issue by making multiple contributions. No need to use a spreadsheet.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017

    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.

    Can you provide an example?
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Pat in KCPat in KC Member
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    I have recently changed assumptions and added six $4,000 401(k) contributions "already started" "stops at retirement". This is a 10 year time frame so without interest my total assets should have increased $240,000 in 10 years however total assets have only increased $2,000image
  • Pat in KCPat in KC Member
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    I have always been under the impression that the LTP takes current financials then uses your "plan" for IRA, savings, 401(k), etc. and then simply projects them out. BTW - we have no debt nor debt reduction plan except mortgage. Mortgage is set up as an asset and liability.
  • Pat in KCPat in KC Member
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    I just removed $20,000 per year or five of the $4,000 annual contributions and the total assets dropped by $38,000 not the $2,000 I stated previously. A little better but since I'm adding and/or subtracting $200,000 into the account I would think my total assets would be increased by a min of that same amount.
  • fanfarefanfare Member
    edited March 2017

    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.

    Does it have the right RMD calculation for Married folks? It certainly does not for Single folks.
  • fanfarefanfare Member
    edited March 2017

    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.

    Assuming your plan will grow at a constant rate over 30 or more years is just not realistic. Check out 2007-2008. 401ks dropped 50% or more and many people sold out at the bottom. Take all the projections with a big grain of salt.
  • mistertheplaguemistertheplague Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017

    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.

    @fanfare: That's simply par for the course when using any deterministic planner. If you want historical and Monte Carlo projections you have to use a tool like OnTrajectory. Or the Flexible Retirement Planner if you want the ability to manually stress test your plan, e.g. by adding a black swan the year before/after you retire.
  • mistertheplaguemistertheplague Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    @ mshiggins: thanks for the clarification
  • mistertheplaguemistertheplague Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    @ mshiggins: thanks for the clarification
  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    Pat, have you looked at the yearly details to see if the total of the contributions is being added to your portfolio? Also, have you checked the yearly details to see if your expenses exceed your income? If your expenses exceed your income, that would decrease your portfolio.


    To see the yearly detail, double click on any of the columns in the Plan Results graph.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    Pat, have you looked at the yearly details to see if the total of the contributions is being added to your portfolio? Also, have you checked the yearly details to see if your expenses exceed your income? If your expenses exceed your income, that would decrease your portfolio.


    To see the yearly detail, double click on any of the columns in the Plan Results graph.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017

    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.

    Good points. But you can't beat the convenience of the integrated LTP having all your Quicken data to draw from and its intrinsic ability to stay up to date as your account balances change over time.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • fanfarefanfare Member
    edited March 2017

    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.

    It is a complex program. It hasn't changed probably because they are afraid it will break if they touch it.
  • mistertheplaguemistertheplague Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017

    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.

    @mshiggins:

    No question. I use tons of planners: Quicken LTP, MS Money LTP, OnTrajectory, FRP, Pralana -- I should probably join a 12-step group. I use them all to get a different perspective and compare data points. And though deterministic planners are limited in the manner mentioned upthread, they're still very useful for viewing linear trends, without certain distractions. Add a variable, remove a variable, see what happens. 
  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017

    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.

    @fanfare, fear of messing up a useful feature by revamping it has never been a roadblock in the past.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Rocket J SquirrelRocket J Squirrel SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017

    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.

    Interesting, @mistertheplague. Do the various planners agree with each other?
    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS.
    Now using QWin Premier subscription version on Win7 Pro x64.
  • mistertheplaguemistertheplague Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017

    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.

    @RJS: the two deterministic planners I use, Quicken and MS Money, are off from one another (I've checked) by the amount resulting from Quicken not incorporating my debt reduction plan. The two program's LTP feature set is otherwise nearly identical, so near-parity is to be expected.


    The high-fidelity planners I use (OnTrajectory, FRP, Pralana) produce results that are consistent rather than in agreement. For one thing, every time you run a MC simulation you're gonna get a slightly different result. Beyond that, each of them has the core feature-set of a high-fidelity planner. Their variation, I think, can be accounted for by the few higher fidelity features that are either unique to them or that they do better.


    For instance, FRP allows the user to input expected return and standard deviation. Makes a big difference. You can backtest a portfolio using Portfolio Visualizer and input custom numbers into FRP.


    FRP also incorporates the ability to set a flexible spending policy after retirement. OT allows for that but FRP does it automatically.


    OT just added home equity, which Pralana has (but only in future dollars -- head scratcher) but FRP doesn't. It makes a huge difference in calculations.


    Pralana has everything. It's a Frankenstein monster of an Excel spreadsheet. It's three big flaws (aside from the complexity) is that it doesn't handle non-mortgage loans or child-specific expenses easily, the aforementioned equity projection issue, and the fact that it demands historical data going back to 1928 in order to run either historical or MC simulations.


    Since such data is unavailable for the asset classes normal people hold, the whole huge thing basically functions de facto as a microscopically-detailed deterministic planner.
  • Pat in KCPat in KC Member
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    @mshiggins ,,, thanks, kind of embarrassing but never knew could see the details yrly. FYI - Expenses do not exceed income over the next 10 years while working, at the 11th year (in retirement) expenses exceed investment income and SS a little bit and we have no debt except a mortgage that retires the same yr I do. BUT I think I have spotted the issue,,,,,, Over the next 10 years the detail investment summary shows the correct 'Tax Def Deposits' ($24k) per yr plus employer match (additional $8k) plus wifes deposits for a total of around $33k however, during the same ten year period there is almost $29,000 per yr in 'Less Withdrawals'? This would account for the total portfolio value increasing slightly over 10 yrs after depositing more than $240k which was my original post. There should be no withdrawals at all until retirement. Side note - I am still adding the 401(k) deposits as 6 deposits at $4k each.image
  • Pat in KCPat in KC Member
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    @mshiggins ,,, After some more digging, there are no withdrawals in 2017. The tax-deferred withdrawals (shown in image above) only happen over the next 9 years, until retirement.
  • PhilipPhilip Member ✭✭
    edited June 2018
    Quicken 2017 Premiere, R4, Build 26.1.4.5


    I've started to use Lifetime Planner and Budgeting with my retirement starting this month. I've been learning a lot about the Planner in the forums and although it has some drawbacks it seems to be a pretty good tool for predicting a future cash flow, once you understand how it works. I just recently learned about the differences between, "Show amounts in future value and in today's value". It handles inflation differently in the two views and thus effects what you see in different income and investment accounts. My eyes really opened up when I exported the entire plan, year by year, and copied it into Excel. There you can visualize and see how the cash flow is progressing.



    See my article here;


    https://getsatisfaction.com/quickenco...



    -phil
  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    Pat, how old does the LTP think you are? Required minimum withdrawals from tax-deferred accounts will start in the year you are 70.5.

    This and the expenses exceeding income for the year are the only two conditions that will result in withdrawals from the tax-deferred accounts.

    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Pat in KCPat in KC Member
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    Checked to be certain but it shows I'm 55 y/o. Expenses do not exceed income for the next 10 years. Whats odd to me is that it's making withdrawals from a tax deferred account when I am age 56 through 64? The above image indicates I'm adding to tax deferred accounts but also withdrawing prior to my retirement of 65 y/o.


    Anything else you can think of to check mshiggins?
  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Pat in KC said:

    Thanks so much, this info is disturbing,,,, been using Quicken for 20 years and only have 10 left till retirement, maybe. I could create a spreadsheet to project future vales in savings and retirement accounts then use the other projections from Quicken provided they are accurate. Are you aware of any other issues/bugs related to the planner and/or what if sections of Quicken?

    Since the withdrawals start in 2018, I'd check for anything else that starts in 2018. A special expense or a planned loan or an adjustment to living expenses.

    I find a good way to isolate what is making a change is to exclude things from your plan. Almost every assumption and every account have an exclude checkbox. I would try excluding things until you find what is triggering the withdrawals.

    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017

    The RMD rates for 401K/IRA accounts are too high in Quicken 2015, and I assume 2017.  This causes the planner to remove money, and pay taxes, much sooner than actually required.

    I'm not sure if the Lifetime Planner has been updated in years.

    @mistertheplague, are those other planning tools free or is there a cost associated with them? I, too, like to try different planning tools. I've tried the Fidelity income planner and a spreadsheet based planner. Long ago I used the standalone Quicken Financial Planner. I also have worked with a independent financial planning firm since 1996.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
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