Add automatic brokerage account connection for Wealthfront

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Comments

  • gmalis1gmalis1 Member
    edited April 2017

    @cam: If I may, allow me to be your NotACPA-English translator: Quicken Inc. is perfectly willing -- they will bend over backwards, in fact -- to cash any financial institution's check, without fear or favor. All that financial institution has to do is be willing to write it. 

    The issue isn't complicated. Quicken Inc. (and Intuit before them) charges financial institutions for their customers' data to be aggregated into Quicken; certain web-based PFMs like Mint and Personal Capital don't. In fact, Quicken invoices FIs separately to allow customers' data to be downloaded into Quicken for Windows and/or Quicken for Mac. Quicken's proprietary QFX file is little more than an OFX file that phones home to ensure the FI in question is on Quicken's accounts-current list. 

    You can't aggregate your Wealthfront account in Quicken because Wealthfront doesn't want to pay Quicken to permit you to do so. They also don't want to tell you that, so they present you with a fugazi QFX file they know won't work and mutter some vague excuses.

    Quicken Inc., on the other hand, wants you to think it's a technical issue, that some FIs are just inexplicably, mysteriously -- and yes, regretfully -- resistant to having alien nodes connect to their servers. They don't want to tell you that Wealthfront doesn't want to pay them because you might start asking why Wealthfront has to pay them when you're paying them.

    Technical challenges to an FI-Quicken round trip without question exist. But all of these people are professionals. They work in fintech for a living.

    You want to know why you can't download your Wealthfront account into Quicken? Simple. As the noted philosopher P. Diddy said, it's all about the Benjamins. 

    OK...going a bit off topic...but relevant to you selecting Quicken as your personal finance software.

    Be aware, that presumably starting in the NEXT Quicken year version, Quicken will become an annual subscription product (price to be determined).  Your data will still reside locally on your computer, but you will need to pay Quicken annually to keep Quicken operational.

    If you fail to renew your subscription, Quicken will enter limited functionality mode...which is corporate speak for "locking out your data".  Your Quicken data file will become "read only"...not even allowing you to manually enter transactions to Quicken.  

    That policy may influence your decision to purchase and use Quicken going forward.  
  • ConcordmanConcordman Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017

    @cam: If I may, allow me to be your NotACPA-English translator: Quicken Inc. is perfectly willing -- they will bend over backwards, in fact -- to cash any financial institution's check, without fear or favor. All that financial institution has to do is be willing to write it. 

    The issue isn't complicated. Quicken Inc. (and Intuit before them) charges financial institutions for their customers' data to be aggregated into Quicken; certain web-based PFMs like Mint and Personal Capital don't. In fact, Quicken invoices FIs separately to allow customers' data to be downloaded into Quicken for Windows and/or Quicken for Mac. Quicken's proprietary QFX file is little more than an OFX file that phones home to ensure the FI in question is on Quicken's accounts-current list. 

    You can't aggregate your Wealthfront account in Quicken because Wealthfront doesn't want to pay Quicken to permit you to do so. They also don't want to tell you that, so they present you with a fugazi QFX file they know won't work and mutter some vague excuses.

    Quicken Inc., on the other hand, wants you to think it's a technical issue, that some FIs are just inexplicably, mysteriously -- and yes, regretfully -- resistant to having alien nodes connect to their servers. They don't want to tell you that Wealthfront doesn't want to pay them because you might start asking why Wealthfront has to pay them when you're paying them.

    Technical challenges to an FI-Quicken round trip without question exist. But all of these people are professionals. They work in fintech for a living.

    You want to know why you can't download your Wealthfront account into Quicken? Simple. As the noted philosopher P. Diddy said, it's all about the Benjamins. 

    Interesting observation gmalis1..Will this apply to both QW & QM? The Quicken folks have been quiet about this. Do I understand this is the Canadian approach at present?
  • smayer97smayer97 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017

    @cam: If I may, allow me to be your NotACPA-English translator: Quicken Inc. is perfectly willing -- they will bend over backwards, in fact -- to cash any financial institution's check, without fear or favor. All that financial institution has to do is be willing to write it. 

    The issue isn't complicated. Quicken Inc. (and Intuit before them) charges financial institutions for their customers' data to be aggregated into Quicken; certain web-based PFMs like Mint and Personal Capital don't. In fact, Quicken invoices FIs separately to allow customers' data to be downloaded into Quicken for Windows and/or Quicken for Mac. Quicken's proprietary QFX file is little more than an OFX file that phones home to ensure the FI in question is on Quicken's accounts-current list. 

    You can't aggregate your Wealthfront account in Quicken because Wealthfront doesn't want to pay Quicken to permit you to do so. They also don't want to tell you that, so they present you with a fugazi QFX file they know won't work and mutter some vague excuses.

    Quicken Inc., on the other hand, wants you to think it's a technical issue, that some FIs are just inexplicably, mysteriously -- and yes, regretfully -- resistant to having alien nodes connect to their servers. They don't want to tell you that Wealthfront doesn't want to pay them because you might start asking why Wealthfront has to pay them when you're paying them.

    Technical challenges to an FI-Quicken round trip without question exist. But all of these people are professionals. They work in fintech for a living.

    You want to know why you can't download your Wealthfront account into Quicken? Simple. As the noted philosopher P. Diddy said, it's all about the Benjamins. 

    Yes, this has been rolled out for the 2017 Canadian version and has been mentioned to be the plan for ALL other versions. You can read all about it on the following thread. A summary of all the issues discussed in that thread has been captured here:
    https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-chang...

    Another issue added to this list includes: being forced to upgrade your OS or hardware. See more details here: 
    https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-chang...

    If you have a concern about this, you can add your VOTE at the link provided. Your VOTE matters!

    (If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

    If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.

    (Canadian  user since '92, STILL using QM2007)

    Have Questions? Check out these FAQs:
  • mistertheplaguemistertheplague Member ✭✭
    edited April 2017

    @cam: If I may, allow me to be your NotACPA-English translator: Quicken Inc. is perfectly willing -- they will bend over backwards, in fact -- to cash any financial institution's check, without fear or favor. All that financial institution has to do is be willing to write it. 

    The issue isn't complicated. Quicken Inc. (and Intuit before them) charges financial institutions for their customers' data to be aggregated into Quicken; certain web-based PFMs like Mint and Personal Capital don't. In fact, Quicken invoices FIs separately to allow customers' data to be downloaded into Quicken for Windows and/or Quicken for Mac. Quicken's proprietary QFX file is little more than an OFX file that phones home to ensure the FI in question is on Quicken's accounts-current list. 

    You can't aggregate your Wealthfront account in Quicken because Wealthfront doesn't want to pay Quicken to permit you to do so. They also don't want to tell you that, so they present you with a fugazi QFX file they know won't work and mutter some vague excuses.

    Quicken Inc., on the other hand, wants you to think it's a technical issue, that some FIs are just inexplicably, mysteriously -- and yes, regretfully -- resistant to having alien nodes connect to their servers. They don't want to tell you that Wealthfront doesn't want to pay them because you might start asking why Wealthfront has to pay them when you're paying them.

    Technical challenges to an FI-Quicken round trip without question exist. But all of these people are professionals. They work in fintech for a living.

    You want to know why you can't download your Wealthfront account into Quicken? Simple. As the noted philosopher P. Diddy said, it's all about the Benjamins. 

    @Tamara, I meant Mint and PC don't charge FIs for nuts and bolts aggregation -- a separate matter from branding, etc. 

    Also, smayer97's question is a very good one; an answer would be appreciated.
  • mistertheplaguemistertheplague Member ✭✭
    edited April 2017

    but where is Q's leverage to demand fees from FIs coming from? Just their incumbency? 
    Let me preface by stipulating that Express Web Connect (Quicken Connect in QMac) kind of sucks. It's buggy, it frequently lags transactions, and occasionally  just flat out doesn't work. When I contemplate EWC, often the image of those birds from the Flintstones flying back and forth with little stone tablets comes into my head.

    Direct Connect, on the other hand, is in my experience very reliable. That's the service that FIs have to pay for, as was noted upthread. DC is required for investment accounts and to use Bill Pay within Quicken. 

    So if an FI dropped Direct Connect but said, "Well, we still support Quicken" because they make EWC available, eh. Yabba Dabba Doo. 

    Anyway, to answer your question, apparently most/many banks still have a large enough customer base sufficiently populated with well-heeled money hawks that they're afraid to terminate their Direct Connect contracts with Quicken/Intuit/Whoever.

    At least for their Windows customers. Mac users, as usual, get the dirty end of the stick. In QW the vast majority of my FIs still offer Direct Connect. In QM, the only one that offers DC is, ironically, Chase. 

    Some of the more satanic FIs like Chase, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, et al. have tried to stick their customers with Quicken's DC fees. Apparently, Wells Fargo had the practice of sending their customers a bill after they added a WF account in Quicken. What I would have sent them in reply isn't repeatable in a polite forum such as this one.

    Brokerages really have to offer Direct Connect, otherwise their clients won't be able to access their data through Quicken in any meaningful way. And my guess is that the correlation between brokerage customers and Quicken customers is still relatively high.

    Also, people with investment accounts tend to have more money, and people with more money aren't shy about throwing their weight around. Two of my brokerages -- Schwab and Merrill -- only offer insultingly skimpy CSVs on their websites. In Quicken, however -- even Quicken for Mac -- it's Direct Connect all day long.
    I'm new to Q so I don't know the full potential of how awesome and unique it may be
    On the Windows side, Quicken is unparalleled among supported products (MS Money still rivals Quicken for Windows in terms of capability, but Microsoft stopped supporting it 8 or 9 years ago).

    For the bona fide personal finance nerd with taxable investments, there is no retail substitute for QW Premier. Like it or lump it.
    Are people really willing to switch FIs just to get a Quicken feed? that just seems crazy.
    I think it's crazy to allow an FI to sandbox you into their proprietary (and lame) web portal. I consider full-bore Quicken access to be an essential part of their customer service. It's not like they're performing charity. I know how much money they make from me as a customer. 

    I ditched a credit union back in the day because they decided to drop Quicken Direct Connect. I'll stop using credit cards for a while if they screw up in my feeds.

    Personal Capital is my litmus test re: whose fault it is. If they screw up in Quicken, it might be Quicken's fault. If they screw up in Quicken and Mint, it might be Intuit's fault. If they screw up in Quicken, Mint and PC, I figure it's the bank's fault, since PC uses Yodlee to aggregate. I'll check back with them after awhile to see if they've gotten their act together. 

    A more recent, and serious, threat is the TBTF banks declaring war on aggregators like Mint and PC -- and perhaps Quicken as collateral damage. The question is nothing less than who it is that owns your financial data, you or them:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/23/business/dealbook/banks-and-tech-firms-battle-over-something-akin...I misspoke (or mistyped): in addition to Chase, Discover and Amex also offer Direct Connect in QM17. 
  • cam.matthewscam.matthews Member
    edited April 2017

    but where is Q's leverage to demand fees from FIs coming from? Just their incumbency? 
    Let me preface by stipulating that Express Web Connect (Quicken Connect in QMac) kind of sucks. It's buggy, it frequently lags transactions, and occasionally  just flat out doesn't work. When I contemplate EWC, often the image of those birds from the Flintstones flying back and forth with little stone tablets comes into my head.

    Direct Connect, on the other hand, is in my experience very reliable. That's the service that FIs have to pay for, as was noted upthread. DC is required for investment accounts and to use Bill Pay within Quicken. 

    So if an FI dropped Direct Connect but said, "Well, we still support Quicken" because they make EWC available, eh. Yabba Dabba Doo. 

    Anyway, to answer your question, apparently most/many banks still have a large enough customer base sufficiently populated with well-heeled money hawks that they're afraid to terminate their Direct Connect contracts with Quicken/Intuit/Whoever.

    At least for their Windows customers. Mac users, as usual, get the dirty end of the stick. In QW the vast majority of my FIs still offer Direct Connect. In QM, the only one that offers DC is, ironically, Chase. 

    Some of the more satanic FIs like Chase, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, et al. have tried to stick their customers with Quicken's DC fees. Apparently, Wells Fargo had the practice of sending their customers a bill after they added a WF account in Quicken. What I would have sent them in reply isn't repeatable in a polite forum such as this one.

    Brokerages really have to offer Direct Connect, otherwise their clients won't be able to access their data through Quicken in any meaningful way. And my guess is that the correlation between brokerage customers and Quicken customers is still relatively high.

    Also, people with investment accounts tend to have more money, and people with more money aren't shy about throwing their weight around. Two of my brokerages -- Schwab and Merrill -- only offer insultingly skimpy CSVs on their websites. In Quicken, however -- even Quicken for Mac -- it's Direct Connect all day long.
    I'm new to Q so I don't know the full potential of how awesome and unique it may be
    On the Windows side, Quicken is unparalleled among supported products (MS Money still rivals Quicken for Windows in terms of capability, but Microsoft stopped supporting it 8 or 9 years ago).

    For the bona fide personal finance nerd with taxable investments, there is no retail substitute for QW Premier. Like it or lump it.
    Are people really willing to switch FIs just to get a Quicken feed? that just seems crazy.
    I think it's crazy to allow an FI to sandbox you into their proprietary (and lame) web portal. I consider full-bore Quicken access to be an essential part of their customer service. It's not like they're performing charity. I know how much money they make from me as a customer. 

    I ditched a credit union back in the day because they decided to drop Quicken Direct Connect. I'll stop using credit cards for a while if they screw up in my feeds.

    Personal Capital is my litmus test re: whose fault it is. If they screw up in Quicken, it might be Quicken's fault. If they screw up in Quicken and Mint, it might be Intuit's fault. If they screw up in Quicken, Mint and PC, I figure it's the bank's fault, since PC uses Yodlee to aggregate. I'll check back with them after awhile to see if they've gotten their act together. 

    A more recent, and serious, threat is the TBTF banks declaring war on aggregators like Mint and PC -- and perhaps Quicken as collateral damage. The question is nothing less than who it is that owns your financial data, you or them:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/23/business/dealbook/banks-and-tech-firms-battle-over-something-akin...All interesting stuff, thanks. So what you're saying is that if I'm going to get the most from Q and probably any PFM software, I should be using QW. This fits with the response I got from Wealthfront, which I'll post in a separate comment.

    @Tamara, is EWC/QC just screen scraping? If so, I can understand why it's unreliable, part of that war on aggregators seems to be constant UI updates from the banks that I presume are partly aimed at combating scrapers. Found this interesting column from Eric Dunn trying to get a PR win for screen scraping, but also advocating for more openness for s2s communication.
    https://www.americanbanker.com/opinion/screen-scraping-angst-is-overblown

    I agree with him, fears are overblown, but the service is unreliable (because FIs want them to be unreliable). Standardized server-to-server technology would be better for the consumer, but that doesn't seem like a priority.

    So far I haven't been able to find a company or service (FI, Aggregator, or PFM) that's worth rooting for. They all suck in their own special ways, with Intuit perhaps being the worst. Unrelated to this, but what they've done as part of the "Free File Alliance" is nearly unforgivable. I've got to say I am dismayed that Quicken is still using them as their aggregator, that is definitely a mark against.
  • cam.matthewscam.matthews Member
    edited October 2018
    Here is the response I got from Wealthfront:

    "Thanks for the note. You are correct - we haven't been able to get Mac integration figured out, but the export should work if you use a PC. We aren't sure why it's been so difficult to get this restored, but for some reason integrating with Macs has not worked and our attempts to fix it have failed.

    Do you happen to have a contact at Quicken we could try since ours have been less helpful? I know it's a long shot, but thought I'd ask."

    This does not inspire a lot of confidence in either party, to be honest. @Tamara, my understanding from previous comments was that this was not a version issue, that the QFX file would not work in any version of Q because Wealthfront was not listed as a FI in any FIDir.txt. Can you confirm if that's the case? I think that is related to smayer97's question earlier that a few people have +1'ed.
  • Quicken TamaraQuicken Tamara Member, Employee ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017

    but where is Q's leverage to demand fees from FIs coming from? Just their incumbency? 
    Let me preface by stipulating that Express Web Connect (Quicken Connect in QMac) kind of sucks. It's buggy, it frequently lags transactions, and occasionally  just flat out doesn't work. When I contemplate EWC, often the image of those birds from the Flintstones flying back and forth with little stone tablets comes into my head.

    Direct Connect, on the other hand, is in my experience very reliable. That's the service that FIs have to pay for, as was noted upthread. DC is required for investment accounts and to use Bill Pay within Quicken. 

    So if an FI dropped Direct Connect but said, "Well, we still support Quicken" because they make EWC available, eh. Yabba Dabba Doo. 

    Anyway, to answer your question, apparently most/many banks still have a large enough customer base sufficiently populated with well-heeled money hawks that they're afraid to terminate their Direct Connect contracts with Quicken/Intuit/Whoever.

    At least for their Windows customers. Mac users, as usual, get the dirty end of the stick. In QW the vast majority of my FIs still offer Direct Connect. In QM, the only one that offers DC is, ironically, Chase. 

    Some of the more satanic FIs like Chase, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, et al. have tried to stick their customers with Quicken's DC fees. Apparently, Wells Fargo had the practice of sending their customers a bill after they added a WF account in Quicken. What I would have sent them in reply isn't repeatable in a polite forum such as this one.

    Brokerages really have to offer Direct Connect, otherwise their clients won't be able to access their data through Quicken in any meaningful way. And my guess is that the correlation between brokerage customers and Quicken customers is still relatively high.

    Also, people with investment accounts tend to have more money, and people with more money aren't shy about throwing their weight around. Two of my brokerages -- Schwab and Merrill -- only offer insultingly skimpy CSVs on their websites. In Quicken, however -- even Quicken for Mac -- it's Direct Connect all day long.
    I'm new to Q so I don't know the full potential of how awesome and unique it may be
    On the Windows side, Quicken is unparalleled among supported products (MS Money still rivals Quicken for Windows in terms of capability, but Microsoft stopped supporting it 8 or 9 years ago).

    For the bona fide personal finance nerd with taxable investments, there is no retail substitute for QW Premier. Like it or lump it.
    Are people really willing to switch FIs just to get a Quicken feed? that just seems crazy.
    I think it's crazy to allow an FI to sandbox you into their proprietary (and lame) web portal. I consider full-bore Quicken access to be an essential part of their customer service. It's not like they're performing charity. I know how much money they make from me as a customer. 

    I ditched a credit union back in the day because they decided to drop Quicken Direct Connect. I'll stop using credit cards for a while if they screw up in my feeds.

    Personal Capital is my litmus test re: whose fault it is. If they screw up in Quicken, it might be Quicken's fault. If they screw up in Quicken and Mint, it might be Intuit's fault. If they screw up in Quicken, Mint and PC, I figure it's the bank's fault, since PC uses Yodlee to aggregate. I'll check back with them after awhile to see if they've gotten their act together. 

    A more recent, and serious, threat is the TBTF banks declaring war on aggregators like Mint and PC -- and perhaps Quicken as collateral damage. The question is nothing less than who it is that owns your financial data, you or them:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/23/business/dealbook/banks-and-tech-firms-battle-over-something-akin...EWC/QC is not limited to screenscrape. There are 3 channels that EWC/QC can use to get data, depending on what agreements the SP has been able to reach with the FI's:

    Screenscrape
    QFX/OFX provider
    Direct API (much closer to a Direct Connect connection-type)
  • Quicken TamaraQuicken Tamara Member, Employee ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017

    Here is the response I got from Wealthfront:

    "Thanks for the note. You are correct - we haven't been able to get Mac integration figured out, but the export should work if you use a PC. We aren't sure why it's been so difficult to get this restored, but for some reason integrating with Macs has not worked and our attempts to fix it have failed.

    Do you happen to have a contact at Quicken we could try since ours have been less helpful? I know it's a long shot, but thought I'd ask."

    This does not inspire a lot of confidence in either party, to be honest. @Tamara, my understanding from previous comments was that this was not a version issue, that the QFX file would not work in any version of Q because Wealthfront was not listed as a FI in any FIDir.txt. Can you confirm if that's the case? I think that is related to smayer97's question earlier that a few people have +1'ed.

    You are correct that the FI must be on the FIDir.txt for the product in order for a QFX/OFX to import without errors.

    I suspect that it's not that they can't get the "integration" to work, but more that they (probably) prefer to not engage with Intuit Financial Services (IFS) and pay the branding & profile fees.

    They're not listed on any FIDir.txt for Quicken Mac or Quicken Windows, so moving to a PC/virtual machine won't get this FI added for you.

    I have pinged a friend who works in IFS to see if they have any back story on this specific FI, but I don't expect a response soon (they're currently traveling).
  • billrbillr Member ✭✭
    Just opened a Wealthfront account and emailed them about Direct Connect capability. Would be great to have it!
This discussion has been closed.