Unknown Account Type in Express Web Connect and EWC not downloading transactions

Product Version: Quicken Home & Business 2017 - Canadian Version - R1 (current release as of today, June 11, 2017).

I have been experience major problems with EWC downloading transactions from RBC Royal Bank recently (and, in retrospect in the past, which have forced to start from scratch in a new Quicken file (not a new account, a new file).

After a lot of troubleshooting, research, and consultation, I've been able to somewhat isolate and somewhat replicate what causes EWC to stop working. I'm posting the following details in the hope that someone can help further isolate the cause of the problem and to help any others that might be having a similar issue.

Once this problem sets in, it is sometimes repairable (see below) and sometimes unrepairable. When unrepairable, it results in an inability to use EWC for the affected accounts/bank/client card number. Thus, this is a major problem, which can be replicated... it is not the result of random file corruption.

Symptoms of the problem (any combination of the following):
- EWC goes through the motions, possibly with no error messages, but doesn't download available transactions;
- When running EWC setup, there are one or more accounts listed as "unknown type" in the ADD, LINK, IGNORE dialogue box;
- EWC takes an abnormally short period of time to complete;
- EWC setup takes an abnormally short period of time to find accounts;
- When you get to the EWC setup box, accounts that are already linked, are proposed to be linked instead of indicating IGNORE with not pickup box; i.e. EWC doesn't properly understand they are already linked.
- When running EWC update or EWC setup CAPTCHA-like security responses appear;
- When running EWC setup, you don't see pop up dialog boxes for updating accounts that are already linked
- When your run a successive series of file copy operations and file validate operations Quicken will find a problem with an account in the first validate and a problem with a category in the second, subsequent validate (but you must do file copy operation in between).

I've reviewed many threads on various related topics and considered the advice given against the symptoms I experience. There are several threads that address issues that bear some semblance to what I am encountering, but none are a perfect match to my issue/situation and none of the fixes from the other threads work (entirely or reliably) in my case.

What I've been able to piece together is that some action, operation, or transaction I perform with my data file results in a problem with categories and/or accounts. These problem categories and/or accounts don't appear in the respective lists, even when viewing in "show hidden" mode. Something similar to this issue is documented elsewhere, but Quicken's help suggests that I should be able to find TEMP_ accounts or blank categories or categories with odd names and delete such. In my case, no odd accounts or odd categories appear in the respective lists, even when viewing hidden ones. In my case, the corrupt categories or accounts exist, but are invisible and don't ever appear in any viewable list, even when viewing "show hidden".

In some cases, I can clear the problem categories and/or accounts by doing a sequential series of account copy and validate date file operations (i.e. copy file, then validate, then copy file again, then validate again, and then one last file copy); the resultant file is then sometimes free of the corruption and EWC functionality is restored. When that process fixes the error, with the first validate, it will first find a problem with an account names something like "ACCT_24", which doesn't appear in my account list. Then, after a successive file copy, with the second validate it will then report that it fixed a problem with category (but doesn't provide any details). One more copy file operation and I'll be back in business with EWC (if both the bad account and then the bad category were found and corrected).

The problem manifests itself in the EWC Setup process. When there are problems with categories and/or accounts in my datafile then I start seeing "unknown type" listed for some or all of my accounts in EWC setup. There are some other symptoms that make evident that this problem has occurred. These other symptoms are more difficult to describe... almost need a video of the EWC setup process to illustrate them... the symptoms include prompts for CAPTCHA-like security questions, the amount of time required to find bank accounts (it completes quickly or takes a long time - long time is better), and there is the presence or non-presence of transaction update dialog boxes before the setup (link, ignore, add) dialog box appears - presence is good; non-presence bad. More specifically, if it finishes finding accounts too quickly, it doesn't open dialog boxes showing updates for already EWC-linked accounts, and/or it does present CAPTCHA-like security prompts, I'm going to see "unknown type" showing for some or all accounts listed in the Setup dialog box (i.e. ADD, LINK, IGNORE dialog box). And, all of these phenomena are caused by some sort of corruption in the category and/or account list(s). Apparently categories and accounts share a list in the Quicken database?

What is most frustrating is that I have NOT been able to isolate the action, operation, or transaction that creates the account and/or category problem. Not knowing what causes the corruption makes me fearful of investing time in resetting up all my accounts from scratch... because I don't know when or what may cause the category/account corruption to recur... which may break my EWC again... and it might not be repairable... requiring me to start from scratch with a new file again.

If anyone has any insight into actions, transactions, or operations that can lead to corruption in the category or account list and, ultimately, lead to the appearance of "Unknown Type" in the EWC setup dialog box (i.e. where you should see ADD, LINK, IGNORE), I'd greatly appreciate you sharing that information.

Note: using EWC with more than one client card number, which share joint accounts might be one of the causes of this issue, BUT, I've had the issue occur in a new file that only ever had EWC setup for one client card. Therefore, there is at least one other action, transaction, or operation that can cause this type of corruption in the category/account list(s).

I hope someone can provide further insight that helps me isolate and avoid the action, operation, or transaction that results in the problematic corruption.

I also wish there was a way to have someone at Quicken Tech Support look into this in detail. I've had little success in getting connected with knowledgeable people at Quicken. Taking this issue up with chat support is nearly certain to be a complete exercise in frustration. I believe the detail included here demonstrates that I could point an able product development person in the right direction towards fully isolating the cause of the issue.

I suspect this problem has impacted many people over the years.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help !!!
«13

Comments

  • rlpiniarlpinia Member
    edited December 2018
    Great summary.  And thorough too!  I've been experiencing EWC issues since last fall. After finally concluding it may be related to Win10 compatibility with Quicken Premier 2015 I upgraded to 2016. I guess it was hope.  The problem persisted across all EWC accounts.  I spent time on a couple of Chat sessions diagnosing client file corruption etc.  

    They sent me to my FI saying it was an issue with them.  It was not.  After a couple more support sessions all but one EWC account would work as they had for years before.

    The Veridian CU issues persisted. If they got connected and download they would no longer connect or download after a couple of days.  At that CU my wife and i have 3 member accounts each using its own set of credentials.  Each member account has multiple account types under it.  All of these are in one client data file so each OSU would try to connecting to all of them.  

    I created a new data file and added one member account and it worked.  I created another new data file and added 2 member accounts and finally added another with all 3 member accounts.  I now had new test data files with only the problem accounts and no categories and it worked.  For a couple of days when the problem returned to each data file. If they would activate they would not download.  When I deactivated and reactivated I would get the 'unknown type' with each OSU.

    I was finally connected to 2 engineers in Bangalore who took on the problem.  We've spent several hours using Webex to test and diagnose over the last several weeks.  They gather the logs and attempt other possibilities.  It seemed as if we were going backward and not forward in progressing toward root cause.  Late last week a new guy was brought into our meeting and noticed immediately that I had a rather uncommon situation.  

    As mentioned above, I have 3 member accounts at the one problem FI and each has multiple accounts.  To be precise, two of them have four accounts (checking, savings, Visa, etc.) while the other has eleven accounts under it (CD's, etc).  His theory is that multiple member accounts with multiple accounts being accessed in one update was hitting limits established for security purposes.

    They made changes and we have now successfully activated and downloaded transactions for 2 of the 3 member accounts. I can only activate 1 member per day to avoid the triggers so tomorrow will be the big and hopefully final test to see if the 3rd member account with 11 accounts under will activate and download.  So far his theory is proving out and you touched on it on your comments above.  

    It sounds as though they have lots of scripts working in the background.  I envision a bowl of spaghetti making it all work.  I don't mean that to be critical but am told they are working on changes to the architecture to improve EWC which is recognized as problematic. 

    In one of our early working meetings they discovered the "temp_accounts" that had been created along the way.  They sent me a .exe file that is a backdoor to the client data file.  That backdoor allowed us to see and delete the "temp_ accounts.  If you can get a support tech to work you through that it might be helpful to discover what your situation might be. 

    Good luck.  
  • edited June 2017
    rlpinia said:

    Great summary.  And thorough too!  I've been experiencing EWC issues since last fall. After finally concluding it may be related to Win10 compatibility with Quicken Premier 2015 I upgraded to 2016. I guess it was hope.  The problem persisted across all EWC accounts.  I spent time on a couple of Chat sessions diagnosing client file corruption etc.  

    They sent me to my FI saying it was an issue with them.  It was not.  After a couple more support sessions all but one EWC account would work as they had for years before.

    The Veridian CU issues persisted. If they got connected and download they would no longer connect or download after a couple of days.  At that CU my wife and i have 3 member accounts each using its own set of credentials.  Each member account has multiple account types under it.  All of these are in one client data file so each OSU would try to connecting to all of them.  

    I created a new data file and added one member account and it worked.  I created another new data file and added 2 member accounts and finally added another with all 3 member accounts.  I now had new test data files with only the problem accounts and no categories and it worked.  For a couple of days when the problem returned to each data file. If they would activate they would not download.  When I deactivated and reactivated I would get the 'unknown type' with each OSU.

    I was finally connected to 2 engineers in Bangalore who took on the problem.  We've spent several hours using Webex to test and diagnose over the last several weeks.  They gather the logs and attempt other possibilities.  It seemed as if we were going backward and not forward in progressing toward root cause.  Late last week a new guy was brought into our meeting and noticed immediately that I had a rather uncommon situation.  

    As mentioned above, I have 3 member accounts at the one problem FI and each has multiple accounts.  To be precise, two of them have four accounts (checking, savings, Visa, etc.) while the other has eleven accounts under it (CD's, etc).  His theory is that multiple member accounts with multiple accounts being accessed in one update was hitting limits established for security purposes.

    They made changes and we have now successfully activated and downloaded transactions for 2 of the 3 member accounts. I can only activate 1 member per day to avoid the triggers so tomorrow will be the big and hopefully final test to see if the 3rd member account with 11 accounts under will activate and download.  So far his theory is proving out and you touched on it on your comments above.  

    It sounds as though they have lots of scripts working in the background.  I envision a bowl of spaghetti making it all work.  I don't mean that to be critical but am told they are working on changes to the architecture to improve EWC which is recognized as problematic. 

    In one of our early working meetings they discovered the "temp_accounts" that had been created along the way.  They sent me a .exe file that is a backdoor to the client data file.  That backdoor allowed us to see and delete the "temp_ accounts.  If you can get a support tech to work you through that it might be helpful to discover what your situation might be. 

    Good luck.  

    @Roger: thank you for the detailed response. I strongly suspect the unknown account type issues are affecting a large number of Quicken users. I also spent time in chat and phone sessions with Tech Support and they insisted the issue rested with my FI (RBC Royal Bank). I have a pretty rock solid argument demonstrating the issue is not a FI (RBC ) RBC issue.


    There is strength in numbers. Is there any way to loop me into your case with the dudes in Bangalore? Having another user with additional scenarios could only strengthen the diagnostic process. I too have quite a few accounts and I was downloading from two client card numbers. Some of the accounts are joint, so they appear under both client card numbers. My practice was to set the non-primary joint accounts to IGNORE so that I wasn't linking one Quicken account to in parallel to a common account accessed through to different client card numbers (member numbers in your case).


    At the very least, could you ask your contacts to read this thread?


    The exe that provides access to the data file to delete temp accounts could be a godsend for me. Any suggestions as to how I can get a copy of that file.


    I have struggled to get past front line (not helpful) phone and chat support. Any suggestions as to how I might get connected with the Bangalore dudes? There is a real problem here and I'd like to contribute to finding a solution.


    I am afraid the problem may have more dimensions than just exceeding a maximum number of accounts. My experience suggests there are other ways to introduce the account/category corruption into the data file. I managed to cause such corruption this morning with only six accounts downloading from one client card number (member number).


    The irony is, Quicken users probably, on average, tend to have more complex and numerous sets of accounts... the more accounts one has, the more that someone needs a tool like Quicken.


    Again, anything you can do to steer me to a solution, Connect me with the Bangalore dudes, provide access to the exe file, etc, would greatly appreciated.


    Thanks again for your detailed response.
  • edited June 2017
    rlpinia said:

    Great summary.  And thorough too!  I've been experiencing EWC issues since last fall. After finally concluding it may be related to Win10 compatibility with Quicken Premier 2015 I upgraded to 2016. I guess it was hope.  The problem persisted across all EWC accounts.  I spent time on a couple of Chat sessions diagnosing client file corruption etc.  

    They sent me to my FI saying it was an issue with them.  It was not.  After a couple more support sessions all but one EWC account would work as they had for years before.

    The Veridian CU issues persisted. If they got connected and download they would no longer connect or download after a couple of days.  At that CU my wife and i have 3 member accounts each using its own set of credentials.  Each member account has multiple account types under it.  All of these are in one client data file so each OSU would try to connecting to all of them.  

    I created a new data file and added one member account and it worked.  I created another new data file and added 2 member accounts and finally added another with all 3 member accounts.  I now had new test data files with only the problem accounts and no categories and it worked.  For a couple of days when the problem returned to each data file. If they would activate they would not download.  When I deactivated and reactivated I would get the 'unknown type' with each OSU.

    I was finally connected to 2 engineers in Bangalore who took on the problem.  We've spent several hours using Webex to test and diagnose over the last several weeks.  They gather the logs and attempt other possibilities.  It seemed as if we were going backward and not forward in progressing toward root cause.  Late last week a new guy was brought into our meeting and noticed immediately that I had a rather uncommon situation.  

    As mentioned above, I have 3 member accounts at the one problem FI and each has multiple accounts.  To be precise, two of them have four accounts (checking, savings, Visa, etc.) while the other has eleven accounts under it (CD's, etc).  His theory is that multiple member accounts with multiple accounts being accessed in one update was hitting limits established for security purposes.

    They made changes and we have now successfully activated and downloaded transactions for 2 of the 3 member accounts. I can only activate 1 member per day to avoid the triggers so tomorrow will be the big and hopefully final test to see if the 3rd member account with 11 accounts under will activate and download.  So far his theory is proving out and you touched on it on your comments above.  

    It sounds as though they have lots of scripts working in the background.  I envision a bowl of spaghetti making it all work.  I don't mean that to be critical but am told they are working on changes to the architecture to improve EWC which is recognized as problematic. 

    In one of our early working meetings they discovered the "temp_accounts" that had been created along the way.  They sent me a .exe file that is a backdoor to the client data file.  That backdoor allowed us to see and delete the "temp_ accounts.  If you can get a support tech to work you through that it might be helpful to discover what your situation might be. 

    Good luck.  

    @Roger: How did your day #3 test work out. All your issues resolved?
  • edited June 2017
    OK well, EWC has stopped working again and this time I am NOT gonna try creating a new file seeing this one is pretty much new - just 2 weeks old.

    Seeing that EWC is primarily a Quicken service, it makes sense that the banks will not support it. Web connect works and that's all the bank needs to hold up its end of the bargain.

    It's up to the Quicken server and development team to resolve this but I will tell you one thing - if it isn't resolved by this coming January, I will NOT renew my subscription and bid Quicken goodbye.

    Which will be a crying shame because I've been using the product since the early 1990's.
  • edited December 2018
    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    @Artic: Hey Artic. Ok that would mean then I would have to deactivate EWC and then reactivate it per account. I will try doing it later on today but this morning I used web connect to download my transactions so I won't be able to test out if it will download any new transactions (because right now there are none).

    As for getting Quicken to respond. Try a registered letter to the CEO or to a high level manager.

    If you really want things to move, try getting a lawyer to send a letter on your behalf. Problem is, legally, there is not much we can do so this avenue probably won't work. They'll just laugh it off. They'll know that your pissed but that's as far as it will go.

    I think sending a registered letter will be read 99%. They will be curious as to what the letter is about and they will in fact start reading. I wouldn't be surprised if they gave you a call or sent you a written reply.

    That's the best advice I can offer I'm afraid.

    The banks will do nothing because EWC lands squarely in the hands of Quicken.com. The banks have no authority over another companies servers - the best that they can do is **** at Quicken and tell their customers to use web connect instead.

    EWC is a bonus in functionality that Quicken offers but if it fails, you can still rely on on web connect to get the job done.

    Mind you, that's not what you are paying for - you were promised as a Quicken client that the software you bought with all the bangs and whistles would work and the company should be able to resolve outstanding issues in a reasonable amount of time.
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    @Artic: Just disabled and re-enabled my only two accounts for EWC - Chequing and Savings accounts. Went without a hitch. No unknown account types. Automatically offered the correct link for each account. EWC connectivity has been restored.

    Whether it will download new transactions is another story.

    So this tells me that it is the complexity of your Quicken accounts and setup that is causing the issue, seeing that with just two accounts, no problems.

    But I suspect you already know this ;)
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    @John: Don't deactivate to check for unknown accounts. Just start the process of adding a new account. When I takes you out to the setup window you can view the account types. If all is well all of your accounts that you think are linked should show "IGNORE" in greyed out, unchangeable form. If you are seeing any unknown types or you are offered the opportunity to re LINk some of your accounts or some of your accounts are missing then something is squirrelly. Givie a try an share what you find.
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    @John: sometimes deactivating clears unknown types, at least temporarily. If/when you next run into EWC problems, try going into the setup screen via the Add New Account path and look at what already exists - and take a screen shot. There may very well be gremlins lurking in your file. As I've indicated previously, my issues van sometime be resolved (temporarily) without creating a new file, but that doesn't guarantee their are no gremlins lurking. If, when problems occur, you go first to the deactivate route, you loose the opportunity to see what was the current state before deactivating.
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    image
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    Ok did as you asked. No problems so it seems but keep in mind that I did a deactivation, reactivation just before but I don't think it would have made much of a difference. I think that part of Quicken, server side, works. The problems it is having is in other modules/subroutines/functions.
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    OK here you go - just keep in mind that I did a de-activate and re-activate prior to an account add.image
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    Ok here you go - Just keep in mind that I did a deactivate, reactivate just prior to performing this add account procedure.image
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    Ok here you go - just keep in mind I did an deactivate, activate just prior to adding the account procedure as you see in the snapshot.image
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    Had to modify this stupid screenshot like 5 times cause I kept forgetting to blank out my personal data haha :)
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    @John: I was suggesting that you try this if/when the problem with EWC comes back. I too can sometimes restore mine to look normal after going through the deactivate/reactivity cycle. One obvious difference between our situations is that I have 10-12 accounts appearing on that setup screen and I attempt to download 6 or 7 of them. Several of the accounts are of *unsuppoeted type, e.g. Investment accounts, etc.
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    Sometime I'll grad screen shots of when things look good for me and when there problems.
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    Just to make sure that our troubleshooting doesn't go to waste, it would be wise to create a compilation of our discussions and screenshots and send them via registered letter to Quicken to the attention of the developers.

    I'm pretty sure they will appreciate it and it will help them a good bit.

    Because if we isolate the problem, what good is it if the developers don't hear about it and fix it?
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    Agreed. It would also be interesting and helpful to get an update from @Roger with his connection to the Bangalore crew and backdoor key to the data file. It's been radio silence since the day prior to the culmination of his big experiment concluded.
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    Also, if we could find out who at the private equity firm that bought Quicken is responsible for their investment in Quicken, that is someone who might be very interested in hearing the user experience story. Shouldn't be too difficult to figure that out.
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    Also, if we could find out who at the private equity firm that bought Quicken is responsible for their investment in Quicken, that is someone who might be very interested in hearing the user experience story. Shouldn't be too difficult to figure that out.
  • RexterRexter Member
    edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    It is interesting you mentioned extra accounts as I have had problems on and off with Navy Federal Credit union and I have seen on the update summary it saying 7 or 8 accounts updated but I only have 5 and also reference to accounts with the word temp in their name but I have not been able to find any such accounts listed anywhere.  I suspect they exist and need to be purged but have no way to do it.
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    Try the deactivate - file copy - validate process described above. If that fails, you, like me and others, all need the back door data manipulation tool that Roger describes, andwhich he obtained from the developers in Bangalore.
  • RexterRexter Member
    edited June 2017
    rlpinia said:

    Great summary.  And thorough too!  I've been experiencing EWC issues since last fall. After finally concluding it may be related to Win10 compatibility with Quicken Premier 2015 I upgraded to 2016. I guess it was hope.  The problem persisted across all EWC accounts.  I spent time on a couple of Chat sessions diagnosing client file corruption etc.  

    They sent me to my FI saying it was an issue with them.  It was not.  After a couple more support sessions all but one EWC account would work as they had for years before.

    The Veridian CU issues persisted. If they got connected and download they would no longer connect or download after a couple of days.  At that CU my wife and i have 3 member accounts each using its own set of credentials.  Each member account has multiple account types under it.  All of these are in one client data file so each OSU would try to connecting to all of them.  

    I created a new data file and added one member account and it worked.  I created another new data file and added 2 member accounts and finally added another with all 3 member accounts.  I now had new test data files with only the problem accounts and no categories and it worked.  For a couple of days when the problem returned to each data file. If they would activate they would not download.  When I deactivated and reactivated I would get the 'unknown type' with each OSU.

    I was finally connected to 2 engineers in Bangalore who took on the problem.  We've spent several hours using Webex to test and diagnose over the last several weeks.  They gather the logs and attempt other possibilities.  It seemed as if we were going backward and not forward in progressing toward root cause.  Late last week a new guy was brought into our meeting and noticed immediately that I had a rather uncommon situation.  

    As mentioned above, I have 3 member accounts at the one problem FI and each has multiple accounts.  To be precise, two of them have four accounts (checking, savings, Visa, etc.) while the other has eleven accounts under it (CD's, etc).  His theory is that multiple member accounts with multiple accounts being accessed in one update was hitting limits established for security purposes.

    They made changes and we have now successfully activated and downloaded transactions for 2 of the 3 member accounts. I can only activate 1 member per day to avoid the triggers so tomorrow will be the big and hopefully final test to see if the 3rd member account with 11 accounts under will activate and download.  So far his theory is proving out and you touched on it on your comments above.  

    It sounds as though they have lots of scripts working in the background.  I envision a bowl of spaghetti making it all work.  I don't mean that to be critical but am told they are working on changes to the architecture to improve EWC which is recognized as problematic. 

    In one of our early working meetings they discovered the "temp_accounts" that had been created along the way.  They sent me a .exe file that is a backdoor to the client data file.  That backdoor allowed us to see and delete the "temp_ accounts.  If you can get a support tech to work you through that it might be helpful to discover what your situation might be. 

    Good luck.  

    I seem to have the same issue.  Looked in a log file and found the statement several places, something like "The customer has reached the maximum number of accounts allowed".  Quicken support told me to just make a new file and too bad so sad
  • edited December 2018
    This comment will be of interest to people experiencing problems with downloading transactions using EWC and have discovered that the EWC Add/Setup dialogue box lists some of your accounts to be of "Unknown Type".

    I have been plagued by this issue and it appears that I made some progress towards a (somewhat complicated) "fix" to the "Unknown Type" issue this evening. I have more work to do to confirm whether it is a complete and stable fix or whether the EWC connection will break again soon. However, for the moment, I've got EWC working in a file that previously absolutely wouldn't download transactions from my FI using EWC anymore.

    In brief, here is what I did...
    I started with a file with persistent "Unknown Type" issues for which the functional symptom/issue was an inability to download data by EWC from RBC Royal Bank (the largest bank in Canada). This file would not download data via EWC no matter how many times I deactivated and reactivated or cleared the browser history and, whenever I went into the EWC setup/add dialogue box, several of my accounts would be listed as "Unknown Type". The Unknown Type persisted across complete deactivation/reactivation cycles. The steps I took to make progress this evening are as follows:
    1. Deactivated all EWC connections;
    2. Used the QIF method to export all transactions EXCLUDING the account list, but INCLUDING the security list;
    3. Created a new Quicken file;
    4. Turned on Investment view/tab;
    5. Imported all the previously exported transactions EXCLUDING the account list, but INCLUDING the security list;
    6. Accepted all the newly imported transactions into the new file;
    7. Used File Operations --> Copy to make a copy of the file;
    8. Opened the new copy;
    9. Validated the (new, copied) file - no errors;
    10. Supervalidated the file - no errors again;
    11. Right clicked my main savings account and, on the Online Services tab, selected Setup. When the ADD, LINK, IGNORE dialogue box opened, there were no Unknown Type accounts (a good sign);
    12. LINKed my main savings account and set ALL other accounts in the Setup dialogue box (including EWC supported and EWC not supported) to IGNORE;
    13. EWC completed and downloaded all data, matching existing transactions and showing new ones as recent as yesterday (WoW !!!!  -- WoW !!!)
    This strongly supports my theory that the appearance of "Unknown Type" in the EWC ADD, LINK, IGNORE setup box is indication of corrupt, phantom, or TEMP accounts that can't be seen in the Account List and aren't normally found or corrected by a validate or supervalidate operation.

    I'll try adding my other accounts into the file over the coming days and provide further updates. I've only linked one account so far. I need to link another four supported accounts. I hope that adding other accounts doesn't break the fix.

    Perhaps others that are having similar problems might try my method and also report out as to the results.
  • edited June 2017

    @John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

    BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

    Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

    I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

    How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?

    @Rexter: There is a Quicken Support document that explains how to delete the TEMP accounts, but the official Quicken fix seems to work in some cases and not in others. If you actually see the word TEMP at times, you may be lucky in that the official Quicken remedy may work. The official Quicken fix seems to only work if you can find the TEMP accounts in either your Account List (with view Hidden switched on) or in your Category List (with view hidden switched on). You need to check both because Quicken stores account names and Category names in the same list in the data file. I have been able to prove that I have phantom accounts, but they don't appear in the account/category list viewers even with "show hidden" switched on. You see, below, that I've posted a process which MIGHT be effective at cleansing these phantom accounts. If you try the process I've posted, please report back. Follow the steps VERY carefully and precisely. A minor deviation, like exporting and importing the account list, could cause it not to work. I do not in any way guarantee the fix - I'm still testing it for myself, but I think I'm onto something.
  • rlpiniarlpinia Member
    edited June 2017
    rlpinia said:

    Great summary.  And thorough too!  I've been experiencing EWC issues since last fall. After finally concluding it may be related to Win10 compatibility with Quicken Premier 2015 I upgraded to 2016. I guess it was hope.  The problem persisted across all EWC accounts.  I spent time on a couple of Chat sessions diagnosing client file corruption etc.  

    They sent me to my FI saying it was an issue with them.  It was not.  After a couple more support sessions all but one EWC account would work as they had for years before.

    The Veridian CU issues persisted. If they got connected and download they would no longer connect or download after a couple of days.  At that CU my wife and i have 3 member accounts each using its own set of credentials.  Each member account has multiple account types under it.  All of these are in one client data file so each OSU would try to connecting to all of them.  

    I created a new data file and added one member account and it worked.  I created another new data file and added 2 member accounts and finally added another with all 3 member accounts.  I now had new test data files with only the problem accounts and no categories and it worked.  For a couple of days when the problem returned to each data file. If they would activate they would not download.  When I deactivated and reactivated I would get the 'unknown type' with each OSU.

    I was finally connected to 2 engineers in Bangalore who took on the problem.  We've spent several hours using Webex to test and diagnose over the last several weeks.  They gather the logs and attempt other possibilities.  It seemed as if we were going backward and not forward in progressing toward root cause.  Late last week a new guy was brought into our meeting and noticed immediately that I had a rather uncommon situation.  

    As mentioned above, I have 3 member accounts at the one problem FI and each has multiple accounts.  To be precise, two of them have four accounts (checking, savings, Visa, etc.) while the other has eleven accounts under it (CD's, etc).  His theory is that multiple member accounts with multiple accounts being accessed in one update was hitting limits established for security purposes.

    They made changes and we have now successfully activated and downloaded transactions for 2 of the 3 member accounts. I can only activate 1 member per day to avoid the triggers so tomorrow will be the big and hopefully final test to see if the 3rd member account with 11 accounts under will activate and download.  So far his theory is proving out and you touched on it on your comments above.  

    It sounds as though they have lots of scripts working in the background.  I envision a bowl of spaghetti making it all work.  I don't mean that to be critical but am told they are working on changes to the architecture to improve EWC which is recognized as problematic. 

    In one of our early working meetings they discovered the "temp_accounts" that had been created along the way.  They sent me a .exe file that is a backdoor to the client data file.  That backdoor allowed us to see and delete the "temp_ accounts.  If you can get a support tech to work you through that it might be helpful to discover what your situation might be. 

    Good luck.  

    Artic,  As previously stated, I added 1 member account each 24 hour period.  I finally activated the 3rd member account.  I failed!  It brought back the Visa as "unknown type" and other accounts seemed randomly associated as different types.  A CD came back as a checking account. Another CD came back as a savings account.  Yet a checking account came back as a savings account.   I sent logs and screen shots and waited until we had our weekly meeting yesterday.  

    They reported some odd entries in the log files but did not elaborate on the detail.  They had made script changes between my report of the unknown type and yesterday so during the meeting I attempted to activate the Visa account associated with the 3rd (larger member account).  It was successful!  It linked and even downloaded the posted trans for the last month. Success!

    They asked I continue to exercise the updates over the next few days to ensure they stayed in the correct state.  Having just updated the 3rd membership I unselected it from OSU and tried the other accounts.  My wife's account came back with a cc-585 error.  I followed the instructions to "fix" it.  It failed again so I saved out the logs and emailed them.  Success was short lived.  Like about an hour or so.
    We seem to take a step forward but then a step back and another sideways. 

    On a related step, I contacted the CEO of my primary CU outlining several support issues I've experienced in the last several months.  Among them is the problem with Quicken.  In his response he acknowledged "server issues between the CU and vendor".  He said it had been resolved to his knowledge.  He offered access to the resources in IT who might assist me.  That is the first time the CU has made such a gesture and acknowledgement.  I have asked for the point of contact.  I bring it up because Quicken has mentioned "odd" entries in the log files so I wonder if there aren't still issues in the spaghetti mix. 

    I have been forwarding email notices of other community posts with similar symptoms to include this one to the contacts at Quicken.  I wish they monitored the board more closely.  

    Most know that Quicken was sold by Intuit.  I encourage the community to write letters to the senior leadership on this EWC issue. Hopefully, as someone stated, it will get the attention to get it resolved for the entire user base. 
  • edited June 2017
    rlpinia said:

    Great summary.  And thorough too!  I've been experiencing EWC issues since last fall. After finally concluding it may be related to Win10 compatibility with Quicken Premier 2015 I upgraded to 2016. I guess it was hope.  The problem persisted across all EWC accounts.  I spent time on a couple of Chat sessions diagnosing client file corruption etc.  

    They sent me to my FI saying it was an issue with them.  It was not.  After a couple more support sessions all but one EWC account would work as they had for years before.

    The Veridian CU issues persisted. If they got connected and download they would no longer connect or download after a couple of days.  At that CU my wife and i have 3 member accounts each using its own set of credentials.  Each member account has multiple account types under it.  All of these are in one client data file so each OSU would try to connecting to all of them.  

    I created a new data file and added one member account and it worked.  I created another new data file and added 2 member accounts and finally added another with all 3 member accounts.  I now had new test data files with only the problem accounts and no categories and it worked.  For a couple of days when the problem returned to each data file. If they would activate they would not download.  When I deactivated and reactivated I would get the 'unknown type' with each OSU.

    I was finally connected to 2 engineers in Bangalore who took on the problem.  We've spent several hours using Webex to test and diagnose over the last several weeks.  They gather the logs and attempt other possibilities.  It seemed as if we were going backward and not forward in progressing toward root cause.  Late last week a new guy was brought into our meeting and noticed immediately that I had a rather uncommon situation.  

    As mentioned above, I have 3 member accounts at the one problem FI and each has multiple accounts.  To be precise, two of them have four accounts (checking, savings, Visa, etc.) while the other has eleven accounts under it (CD's, etc).  His theory is that multiple member accounts with multiple accounts being accessed in one update was hitting limits established for security purposes.

    They made changes and we have now successfully activated and downloaded transactions for 2 of the 3 member accounts. I can only activate 1 member per day to avoid the triggers so tomorrow will be the big and hopefully final test to see if the 3rd member account with 11 accounts under will activate and download.  So far his theory is proving out and you touched on it on your comments above.  

    It sounds as though they have lots of scripts working in the background.  I envision a bowl of spaghetti making it all work.  I don't mean that to be critical but am told they are working on changes to the architecture to improve EWC which is recognized as problematic. 

    In one of our early working meetings they discovered the "temp_accounts" that had been created along the way.  They sent me a .exe file that is a backdoor to the client data file.  That backdoor allowed us to see and delete the "temp_ accounts.  If you can get a support tech to work you through that it might be helpful to discover what your situation might be. 

    Good luck.  

    @Roger: thank you for the update. What happens if you make copy of your file and then cycle it through the iterative File Operations-Copy - Validate - File Operations-Copy - validate cycle that I have described? Does it flush out one or more bad accounts and:or categories?
  • edited December 2018
    Ok, I managed to get somewhere on my end regarding transactions not downloading via EWC.

    So, I knew for a fact that today there were cleared transactions available for download. Yes, one step update reports 0 transactions to download.

    So I had two choices.

    Either wait out the problem for Quicken to resolve it and get around this problem by using plain old Web Connect OR deactivate and reactivate EWC and see what happens.

    Well my friends, I tried a different approach altogether today.

    I have only two accounts (yes I'm poor): Chequing and Savings account

    So, I went into the Account List

    The order of the accounts is important to mention.

    The first account listed in the Accounts List is my CHEQUINGS Account

    The 2nd account is my SAVINGS ACCOUNT.

    So, I went into the properties of the SAVINGS ACCOUNT and instead of deactivating EWC, I chose RESET ACCOUNT.

    Clicked on RESET ACCOUNT.

    Prompts me for my RBC password.

    After a few secs, a window pop up and asks me which of the 2 accounts listed below is the savings account.

    Basically, it had two options for me to choose:

    1. Savings (Account # listed here)
    2. None of the above.

    I chose #1, which is the correct one.

    I then clicked ok and off Quicken goes to communicate with the server.

    And that was it, no error messages or anything. The dialog box with the above choices disappeared and returned me back to the ACTIVATE/DEACTIVATE or RESET ACCOUNT page for the savings account.

    So I clicked OK and went to the CHEQUINGS account and performed the same steps.

    I clicked on RESET ACCOUNT.

    It now comes up with the same dialog box as it did for the SAVINGS account but here is where I found a BUG.

    It asks me which of the following accounts listed below is the correct one for the CHEQUING account.

    It should have listed the following:

    1. Chequing Account (account # listed here)
    2. None of the above

    BUT instead it showed this:

    1. Savings Account (account # listed here)
    2. None of the above.

    So, I had to choose #2 - None of the above because the Chequing account option was not listed.

    Pressed OK and Quicken communicated with the server and then the dialog box disappeared.

    Ok, that seemed a little suspicious and I kinda suspected that there might be a problem in the future because Quicken was unable to link to the Chequing account. So maybe it has retained it's old value or the value of that variable in Quicken's API is now NULL.

    I decide to try ONE STEP UPDATE and see what happens.

    This time, I get an ERROR CC-501 on both Chequing and Savings account and it states that the Quicken Server team has been notified.

    Ok, I thought. Resetting the accounts didn't work after all, so I might as well try deactivating EWC and try setting it up again from scratch for both Chequing and Savings account.

    So off I go into the Account List again and I head for my Chequing account and click Deactivate.

    Then it communicates with the server for a few secs and comes back and tells me that it CAN'T deactivate the account now because there are transactions in the register that have been downloaded and need to be accepted!

    AHA!

    So it did work!

    So what does this tell me. I think server side, for my situation with my simple account setup, it seems to be ok but rather Quicken client side is having problems interpreting the information downloaded from the server and that is what is causing these errors. Maybe some flags are not being turned on or off as needed and causing confusion for the application. Just a thought...

    So now I go into my Chequing and Savings registers and see that both accounts have transactions that have to be accepted. And I looked at them and they are the correct transactions that needed to be downloaded so that part of the application works as it should.

    So after accepting the transactions, I decide to try resetting the Chequing and Savings account again and see what happens.

    Reset the Chequing account - I get the dialog box that prompts me which account it the Chequing account from the list. I chose the only account listed - Chequing - and clicked OK.

    I then did the same for the SAVINGS account. But the dialog box didn't show me the SAVINGS account as an option, only the Chequing account. So I clicked: None of the above.

    and unfortunately, I can't remember what I did from that point on but it was just a few extra steps but what I have just told you guys should give you some insight as to what may be causing the problem.
  • edited June 2017

    Ok, I managed to get somewhere on my end regarding transactions not downloading via EWC.

    So, I knew for a fact that today there were cleared transactions available for download. Yes, one step update reports 0 transactions to download.

    So I had two choices.

    Either wait out the problem for Quicken to resolve it and get around this problem by using plain old Web Connect OR deactivate and reactivate EWC and see what happens.

    Well my friends, I tried a different approach altogether today.

    I have only two accounts (yes I'm poor): Chequing and Savings account

    So, I went into the Account List

    The order of the accounts is important to mention.

    The first account listed in the Accounts List is my CHEQUINGS Account

    The 2nd account is my SAVINGS ACCOUNT.

    So, I went into the properties of the SAVINGS ACCOUNT and instead of deactivating EWC, I chose RESET ACCOUNT.

    Clicked on RESET ACCOUNT.

    Prompts me for my RBC password.

    After a few secs, a window pop up and asks me which of the 2 accounts listed below is the savings account.

    Basically, it had two options for me to choose:

    1. Savings (Account # listed here)
    2. None of the above.

    I chose #1, which is the correct one.

    I then clicked ok and off Quicken goes to communicate with the server.

    And that was it, no error messages or anything. The dialog box with the above choices disappeared and returned me back to the ACTIVATE/DEACTIVATE or RESET ACCOUNT page for the savings account.

    So I clicked OK and went to the CHEQUINGS account and performed the same steps.

    I clicked on RESET ACCOUNT.

    It now comes up with the same dialog box as it did for the SAVINGS account but here is where I found a BUG.

    It asks me which of the following accounts listed below is the correct one for the CHEQUING account.

    It should have listed the following:

    1. Chequing Account (account # listed here)
    2. None of the above

    BUT instead it showed this:

    1. Savings Account (account # listed here)
    2. None of the above.

    So, I had to choose #2 - None of the above because the Chequing account option was not listed.

    Pressed OK and Quicken communicated with the server and then the dialog box disappeared.

    Ok, that seemed a little suspicious and I kinda suspected that there might be a problem in the future because Quicken was unable to link to the Chequing account. So maybe it has retained it's old value or the value of that variable in Quicken's API is now NULL.

    I decide to try ONE STEP UPDATE and see what happens.

    This time, I get an ERROR CC-501 on both Chequing and Savings account and it states that the Quicken Server team has been notified.

    Ok, I thought. Resetting the accounts didn't work after all, so I might as well try deactivating EWC and try setting it up again from scratch for both Chequing and Savings account.

    So off I go into the Account List again and I head for my Chequing account and click Deactivate.

    Then it communicates with the server for a few secs and comes back and tells me that it CAN'T deactivate the account now because there are transactions in the register that have been downloaded and need to be accepted!

    AHA!

    So it did work!

    So what does this tell me. I think server side, for my situation with my simple account setup, it seems to be ok but rather Quicken client side is having problems interpreting the information downloaded from the server and that is what is causing these errors. Maybe some flags are not being turned on or off as needed and causing confusion for the application. Just a thought...

    So now I go into my Chequing and Savings registers and see that both accounts have transactions that have to be accepted. And I looked at them and they are the correct transactions that needed to be downloaded so that part of the application works as it should.

    So after accepting the transactions, I decide to try resetting the Chequing and Savings account again and see what happens.

    Reset the Chequing account - I get the dialog box that prompts me which account it the Chequing account from the list. I chose the only account listed - Chequing - and clicked OK.

    I then did the same for the SAVINGS account. But the dialog box didn't show me the SAVINGS account as an option, only the Chequing account. So I clicked: None of the above.

    and unfortunately, I can't remember what I did from that point on but it was just a few extra steps but what I have just told you guys should give you some insight as to what may be causing the problem.

    @John_B: I have observed very similar behaviour; however, I've taken the extra step of pretending to add an extra account so that I can see how the accounts are linked (or not linked, as the case may be) in EWC setup and that's when I'll find one or more "Unknown Type" account(s). In the situation you described, the Chequing account would likely appear to be of "Unknown Type" in EWC setup and that, in my guestimation, is why Quicken doesn't offer to map it for you in the reset dialogue box... because it doesn't offer the "Unknown Type" accounts as accounts that could be mapped.  Consider testing my theory by pretending to Add Account, which takes you to EWC setup and see what you find. The accounts you previously setup should show the correct type and have Ingore in greyed out unpickable pickbox. If you see "Unknown Type" and/or you have the option to select items from the ADD, IGNORE, LINK pick box then you have a problem, which may more may not prevent download.
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