AMEX and "Pay Over Time"...

Hi everyone,

American Express cards have an option that allows you to select certain charges and defer them.  What they call "Pay Over Time" or previously "Sign and Travel".  Both use the same account number, as they are in essence the same account. 

Today in Quicken 2017, everything gets downloaded in one large pile so it is very difficult to understand what the balance is for each.  Example: If you have $1000 in charges that you are paying over time, and you charge $500 this month, the download still says you owe $1500, when actually you don't.  You owe $500 + the Pay Over Time minimum payment.   

Years ago in an older version of Quicken, the solution was simple. You would simply create a second AMEX credit card account, and append a 1 or 2 to the account number.  1 would give you standard AMEX charges and balances, and 2 would give you Pay Over Time charges and balances. It worked fantastic but with Quicken 2017, sadly this no longer works.

Is their a trick to doing this in Quicken 2017 or Quicken 2018?

Thanks!

Comments

  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    The same trick should still work.  You may use transfers to the Pay Over Time account from the credit card account to track the balances.   Do not reconcile using the Online Balance.
    Quicken user since 1997
    Premier on Windows 10
  • PlanethillPlanethill Member ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Last time I tried it didn't work.  However, I didn't get too deep into troubleshooting. I will give it another go and report back.  Thanks!
  • Michael WigonMichael Wigon Member
    edited September 2018
    Charge a category for every AMEX line item. I actually download all transactions to Excel and categorize everything there so I can minimize the Quicken entries by booking summary totals. . I have numerous cards and am tracking business and personal accounts.



    I pay AMEX and charge off current period expenses to the appropriate categories.



    I do a separate JE to an AMEX Payable account for what I haven’t paid. I debit the appropriate expense category. When I’m ready to pay off the AMEX BALANCE offset the AMEX Payable account.



    Again I use Excel to create category totals. I have a procedure that automatically assigns categories to each line item. I update the COA for anything new. If I ever get audited I can trace every entry back to the detail line item in the excel workbook.
  • PlanethillPlanethill Member ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Nope.  Here is what I found in Quicken 2017.

    1. When you try to add the account a second time, after querying AMEX the account is listed as "ignore" as it is already associated with an existing Quicken account. There are no options other than to cancel.
    2. If you try to append a 1 or 2 to the existing account number, the download fails with OL-301-A "Your financial institution has rejected your request".

    I was hoping there was a way to automate this like in earlier versions of Quicken.  Unless you have other ideas, it appears I will have to do it all manually with transfers as you suggested.  :-(

  • PlanethillPlanethill Member ✭✭
    edited August 2018

    Charge a category for every AMEX line item. I actually download all transactions to Excel and categorize everything there so I can minimize the Quicken entries by booking summary totals. . I have numerous cards and am tracking business and personal accounts.



    I pay AMEX and charge off current period expenses to the appropriate categories.



    I do a separate JE to an AMEX Payable account for what I haven’t paid. I debit the appropriate expense category. When I’m ready to pay off the AMEX BALANCE offset the AMEX Payable account.



    Again I use Excel to create category totals. I have a procedure that automatically assigns categories to each line item. I update the COA for anything new. If I ever get audited I can trace every entry back to the detail line item in the excel workbook.

    Thanks for the ideas!
  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018

    Nope.  Here is what I found in Quicken 2017.

    1. When you try to add the account a second time, after querying AMEX the account is listed as "ignore" as it is already associated with an existing Quicken account. There are no options other than to cancel.
    2. If you try to append a 1 or 2 to the existing account number, the download fails with OL-301-A "Your financial institution has rejected your request".

    I was hoping there was a way to automate this like in earlier versions of Quicken.  Unless you have other ideas, it appears I will have to do it all manually with transfers as you suggested.  :-(

    You should not be binding the Pay Over Time account to the financial institution.  Simply add the account as being manually maintained: https://www.quicken.com/support/how-do-i-enter-accounts-and-transactions-manually-quicken-windows

    Also, you should not be modifying the account number of the credit card account bound to the financial institution.
    Quicken user since 1997
    Premier on Windows 10
  • PlanethillPlanethill Member ✭✭
    edited August 2018

    Nope.  Here is what I found in Quicken 2017.

    1. When you try to add the account a second time, after querying AMEX the account is listed as "ignore" as it is already associated with an existing Quicken account. There are no options other than to cancel.
    2. If you try to append a 1 or 2 to the existing account number, the download fails with OL-301-A "Your financial institution has rejected your request".

    I was hoping there was a way to automate this like in earlier versions of Quicken.  Unless you have other ideas, it appears I will have to do it all manually with transfers as you suggested.  :-(

    Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my OP as I thought you said "the same trick should still work".  We must be talking about different tricks as mine does not. 

    Several years ago, this was the suggested Quicken <-> AMEX method.  You appended the account number, and then you could bind two Quicken accounts to one AMEX account and it would automatically filter out the proper transactions for each. It was slick and worked perfectly.  This of course was back in the day before "Direct Connect", etc.

    I was hoping there was a similiar way to do it automatically today in Q2017 or Q2018.  It appears there is not, so I will continue with the manual transfer method.

    Thanks!
  • PlanethillPlanethill Member ✭✭
    edited August 2018

    Nope.  Here is what I found in Quicken 2017.

    1. When you try to add the account a second time, after querying AMEX the account is listed as "ignore" as it is already associated with an existing Quicken account. There are no options other than to cancel.
    2. If you try to append a 1 or 2 to the existing account number, the download fails with OL-301-A "Your financial institution has rejected your request".

    I was hoping there was a way to automate this like in earlier versions of Quicken.  Unless you have other ideas, it appears I will have to do it all manually with transfers as you suggested.  :-(

    Here is a post from 2004 describing the old method.  (Yes, I have been using Quicken for a very, very long time!)


    https://www.accountantforums.com/threads/american-express-import.30415/

  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018

    Nope.  Here is what I found in Quicken 2017.

    1. When you try to add the account a second time, after querying AMEX the account is listed as "ignore" as it is already associated with an existing Quicken account. There are no options other than to cancel.
    2. If you try to append a 1 or 2 to the existing account number, the download fails with OL-301-A "Your financial institution has rejected your request".

    I was hoping there was a way to automate this like in earlier versions of Quicken.  Unless you have other ideas, it appears I will have to do it all manually with transfers as you suggested.  :-(

    I suspect what Mike B actually did was deactivate the download of the original account and created a new account.  The account number of the original would no longer be bound to the financial institution's account and the account number of the new account would be set appropriately when the new account was activated.

    Without additional context, it's difficult to understand what issue was being resolved.  I suspect, Mike B was simply being issued a new card number and could have simply reactivated the original account instead of creating a new account.
    Quicken user since 1997
    Premier on Windows 10
  • PlanethillPlanethill Member ✭✭
    edited August 2018

    Nope.  Here is what I found in Quicken 2017.

    1. When you try to add the account a second time, after querying AMEX the account is listed as "ignore" as it is already associated with an existing Quicken account. There are no options other than to cancel.
    2. If you try to append a 1 or 2 to the existing account number, the download fails with OL-301-A "Your financial institution has rejected your request".

    I was hoping there was a way to automate this like in earlier versions of Quicken.  Unless you have other ideas, it appears I will have to do it all manually with transfers as you suggested.  :-(

    Nope.  It is exactly as I (and he) described, despite your suspicions.  I know, because I used it that way for many years.  I wish I could find the entry on the old Quicken support site where they described this as the preferred method.

    I explained the context clearly in my OP.  AMEX mixes revolving (Pay over Time) and non-revolving charges in the same download.

    BUT, be that as it may.  That was over a decade ago, and it certainly doesnt work that way today.  It seems anyone who remembers it working that way (like me) are long gone.

    Thanks anyway!
  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018

    Nope.  Here is what I found in Quicken 2017.

    1. When you try to add the account a second time, after querying AMEX the account is listed as "ignore" as it is already associated with an existing Quicken account. There are no options other than to cancel.
    2. If you try to append a 1 or 2 to the existing account number, the download fails with OL-301-A "Your financial institution has rejected your request".

    I was hoping there was a way to automate this like in earlier versions of Quicken.  Unless you have other ideas, it appears I will have to do it all manually with transfers as you suggested.  :-(

    I've been using Quicken for over 20 years and do not recall Quicken ever having the ability to split a download from one credit card account at a financial institution into two credit card registers in the datafile set.  We did have the ability to import the same downloaded data into multiple registers and we can still perform the equivalent behavior by deactivating a register Online Services between Web Connect imports.
    Quicken user since 1997
    Premier on Windows 10
  • PlanethillPlanethill Member ✭✭
    edited August 2018

    Nope.  Here is what I found in Quicken 2017.

    1. When you try to add the account a second time, after querying AMEX the account is listed as "ignore" as it is already associated with an existing Quicken account. There are no options other than to cancel.
    2. If you try to append a 1 or 2 to the existing account number, the download fails with OL-301-A "Your financial institution has rejected your request".

    I was hoping there was a way to automate this like in earlier versions of Quicken.  Unless you have other ideas, it appears I will have to do it all manually with transfers as you suggested.  :-(

    Oh fun!  Is this a "Quicken Measuring" contest now?  :-D  Look, I have also been using Quicken since the early days, in fact I still have the floppies somewhere.  I used to print out Quicken checks on a pin-feed, daisy wheel printer, so I know of what I speak. 

    Recall aside, I am guessing you never saw this very real feature, because you didn't have an American Express card with the "Sign and Travel" option in the early 2000's.  Back then there was an automatic solution using the previously mentioned workaround.  Today, probably due to increased security and encryption concerns, there isn't.

    Let it go.

    <Edit: Here is a second reference to the "old way" from 2003.  LINK >






  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018

    Nope.  Here is what I found in Quicken 2017.

    1. When you try to add the account a second time, after querying AMEX the account is listed as "ignore" as it is already associated with an existing Quicken account. There are no options other than to cancel.
    2. If you try to append a 1 or 2 to the existing account number, the download fails with OL-301-A "Your financial institution has rejected your request".

    I was hoping there was a way to automate this like in earlier versions of Quicken.  Unless you have other ideas, it appears I will have to do it all manually with transfers as you suggested.  :-(

    I do understand you believe this feature you subsequently described once existed.  I was simply letting you know that as someone who has also used Quicken for a long time (and participated in multiple Quicken forums), I do not remember the functionality ever behaving the way you have described.  None of that really matters.

    Just saw your edit...  The 2003 link explains the confusion.  Instead of American Express which used a single account, the link instructs you to use American Express Sign & Travel which delivered distinct accounts.  I've looked back as far as the 2007 and have not been able to find support for the alternate financial institution.
    Quicken user since 1997
    Premier on Windows 10
  • PlanethillPlanethill Member ✭✭
    Yes.  But BOTH methods worked back in the day...note the earlier link was a different method.  That was simply the way he preferred to do it. 

    The key is that it's the same account and account number, even today.  It's no longer called "Sign & Travel" today, its just called "Pay over Time" and can be used for anything.  You won;t find Pay over Time listed as a "separate financial institution", because it isn't a separate financial institution.  They are one in the same.
This discussion has been closed.