Quirk with new installs / updates that can really cause confusion for new users.
Andrew Angell
Member ✭✭
This situation could be considered user error (sort of), however, the series of events can easily confuse an average computer user and cause frustration enough to quit Quicken before they can even give it a try.
The most recent example of this is when a friend of mine that I've been helping with finance. I praised Quicken and got him to go ahead and sign up, download, and install.
It's a Windows 10 machine with an admin user, of course, but for security purposes, he typically runs from a standard user account separate from his admin user. This is a pretty common practice (and if you aren't doing this, I highly recommend that you do, but look out for quirks like this.)
So, we're logged in as a standard user, but when we install Quicken it asks for the admin account password, as expected. This also happens when an update is downloaded and needs to be applied.
The problem is that when you do this, it seems to actually opens the Quicken app as the admin user. In this case, the Quicken file you create gets created under the admin user directory instead of the actual standard user that you're really signed in to Windows as.
So this happened to my buddy, and he spent a bunch of time creating accounts, entering bills, etc. in this new Quicken file (that unknowingly lived under the admin account in Windows). Then he closed Quicken for the day.
The next day, he opens quicken (again while signed in as the standard user in Windows). This time, there is no update or anything, so he does not need to enter the admin password. Well, the Quicken file he created originally now lives under that admin account, so Quicken does not see it, and simply opens up new as if he never created a Quicken file to begin with.
Now he was super frustrated and came to me wondering what the heck happened to his Quicken file. I was pretty confused at first, too, so I basically just told him I guess you're going to have to start over (and I was thinking he must have just accidentally deleted it or something.)
Well, a few days later, he opens up Quicken and this time there is an update, so it asks him for the Windows admin password in order to install. As such, Quicken opens as the admin user, sees that original file that was created and opens it up. Oh, there it is!
So technically, this all makes sense, but it's something I would recommend you try to resolve one way or another. At least some kind of warnings or something. Who knows how many people this happens to that don't quite catch the details of it and simply give up..??
The most recent example of this is when a friend of mine that I've been helping with finance. I praised Quicken and got him to go ahead and sign up, download, and install.
It's a Windows 10 machine with an admin user, of course, but for security purposes, he typically runs from a standard user account separate from his admin user. This is a pretty common practice (and if you aren't doing this, I highly recommend that you do, but look out for quirks like this.)
So, we're logged in as a standard user, but when we install Quicken it asks for the admin account password, as expected. This also happens when an update is downloaded and needs to be applied.
The problem is that when you do this, it seems to actually opens the Quicken app as the admin user. In this case, the Quicken file you create gets created under the admin user directory instead of the actual standard user that you're really signed in to Windows as.
So this happened to my buddy, and he spent a bunch of time creating accounts, entering bills, etc. in this new Quicken file (that unknowingly lived under the admin account in Windows). Then he closed Quicken for the day.
The next day, he opens quicken (again while signed in as the standard user in Windows). This time, there is no update or anything, so he does not need to enter the admin password. Well, the Quicken file he created originally now lives under that admin account, so Quicken does not see it, and simply opens up new as if he never created a Quicken file to begin with.
Now he was super frustrated and came to me wondering what the heck happened to his Quicken file. I was pretty confused at first, too, so I basically just told him I guess you're going to have to start over (and I was thinking he must have just accidentally deleted it or something.)
Well, a few days later, he opens up Quicken and this time there is an update, so it asks him for the Windows admin password in order to install. As such, Quicken opens as the admin user, sees that original file that was created and opens it up. Oh, there it is!
So technically, this all makes sense, but it's something I would recommend you try to resolve one way or another. At least some kind of warnings or something. Who knows how many people this happens to that don't quite catch the details of it and simply give up..??
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The problem is that the application is then launched in the context of the admin user that was used for the installation, as you and your friend discovered. To avoid it, never accept the invitation to launch Quicken (or whichever application you’ve installed) in those circumstances. Always quit the installer and then launch Quicken from your standard user account.
I’m not sure if Quicken can do anything about it as it’s a function of the installation programme that they use. It might be configurable such that the "Launch Quicken" button can be removed, but that’s likely to generate complaints from people who use it.
Questions? Check out the Quicken Windows FAQ list
The non administrator account wouldn't have permission to search the administrator's document folder.
Besides a new user in Quicken wouldn't even think of this. As described they would believe that their data is just "gone".
And for that matter one administrators account can't search another's without overriding the default permissions.
Questions? Check out the Quicken Windows FAQ list
Rule #1
Never run a program as admin, just do the install and then switch to the user account.
I don't see how Quicken can prevent such a self-inflected problem.
-also older versions as needed for testing
-Questions? Check out the Quicken Windows FAQ list
In the very least, I think it would be wise to check whether the current logged in user has admin rights, and if not, then you would know they're going to have to enter that password and upgrade to admin level temporarily. In that case, then go ahead and hide the button to Launch Quicken after the install/update so that you're forced to close and re-open.
Or just automate that process of closing and re-opening when you click the Launch quicken button..?? That would do it, too.
It wasn't until the day the update happened and the quirk came up again, loading the original file, that it dawned on me what was going on.
Of course, most users aren't going to understand this, and they're just going to be frustrated.
As I mentioned above, I feel like there should be a way for the developer to know whether or not the software was opened as the actual logged in user, or through an elevated privilege.
The security comes from the fact that applications cannot raise their level on their own because they would not know the password to do so, and would be blocked from doing anything bad on your machine without you knowing.
Installing/updating software from a standard user, and entering the admin credentials in order to do so is not a bad practice at all. I've never seen another app have this problem.
We use the "launch application" feature after installing/updating on a regular basis after using an elevated admin login, and I've never seen the files getting saved under the admin user account instead of the standard user account because of that.
I think the issue has more to do with how the machine is set up than anything else. Most "regular" users have no idea that there is a "real" administrator above all other users and don't have their machines set in a way that an administrator sign-in is required.
So for those that do follow these standard security procedures, this is something that should be addressed one way or another in my opinion.
Again, I would find it very hard to believe there is no way within the MS Developer SDKs to pull the user account for the actual logged in user instead of an elevated level.
The Quicken file(s) should always be saved to the actual current logged in user instead of any elevated level.
When you start Quicken and it has a patch to install it is going to "elevate" at that point. And when it is finished, it is going to continue and run Quicken.
Also if you are in Quicken and it gives you the opportunity to install a patch again it isn't going ask you if you want to open the data file when it is finished, it is just going to do it.
Note though that isn't a given that when you elevate the permissions you have to loose what user account your are running under. There is a difference between elevating the permissions and completely becoming the administrator account.