Online payments duplicated in register

Paul WilsonPaul Wilson Member
edited January 27 in Paying Bills (Windows)
When I sent online payments through Quicken, payments I've just made are being downloaded and I have to accept them. They won't allow match or ignore as an option and accepting just creates a duplicate entry that has to be edited. The duplicate entries cannot be removed because they are seen as payments created outside of Quicken, although they were not created outside of Quicken.

Quicken 2017 Deluxe version R17.4 build 26.1.17.4

Comments

  • mshigginsmshiggins ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1
    What happens when you try to match the downloaded psyment instruction to the sent payment instruction?
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • GeoffGGeoffG ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27
    Also, are you using bill pay through your bank or Quicken Bill Pay?  What is the lead time you are setting for the online payments?
    user since '92 | Quicken Windows Premier - Subscription | Windows 10 Pro version 1903
  • Paul WilsonPaul Wilson Member
    edited January 1
    When I try to match the download a duplicate transaction to the existing uncleared transaction in Quicken Quicken does not recognize that they are the same and won’t let me even manually match them.


    I am using bill pay through my bank. The lead time varies. The duplicate transactions occur immediately upon my next download from my bank.
  • GeoffGGeoffG ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27
    You should not be receiving any transaction until the payment is actually processed.  Under Account List, what is the connection type and bank name?  Do you have reminders set to show in the register?
    user since '92 | Quicken Windows Premier - Subscription | Windows 10 Pro version 1903
  • mshigginsmshiggins ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5
    GeoffG said:

    You should not be receiving any transaction until the payment is actually processed.  Under Account List, what is the connection type and bank name?  Do you have reminders set to show in the register?

    From C. D. Bales:

    "You should not be receiving any transaction until the payment is actually processed".


    That's not my experience.


    When a Quicken account is activated for "online billpay" (I can't speak for "Quicken Billpay"), some (most?) financial institutions create and download "confirmation" transactions when a new online billpay transaction has been setup at their web site (regardless of how the billpay instructions were submitted). Basically, those "confirmation" transactions are just a record that the billpay instruction you sent (or recorded at the billpayer's web site) was received and that the financial institution created a billpay transaction in their system for that instruction. I believe the billpayer controls whether, and when, a confirmation transaction is downloaded.


    I get such "confirmation" transactions for every BofA billpay instruction I send from Quicken or create at the BofA web site. And they always offer the ability to Accept (as New) or Match. If the billpay instruction was created at the billpayer's web site, the downloaded confirmation should be New. If the billpay instruction was created in, and sent from, Quicken, the downloaded confirmation should be a Match.


    [If the billpay instruction was Sent from one Quicken file, and the user later downloads to a separate Quicken file, the downloaded billpay confirmation transaction will, logically, be New in that second file - but it will not represent a "duplicate" online bill payment.]


    [I don't believe that the original poster mentioned whether there is a right-click dropdown for the downloaded confirmation transactions (in the "Accept payments created outside of Quicken ..." tab). I typically have buttons ("Accept", "Match" and "Ignore"), and a right-click menu (which includes "Manually Match Transaction") for my downloaded confirmation transactions.]


    I don't recall reading about this problem before.


    I'm inclined to believe that if there is no option to Match a downloaded confirmation transaction to the existing Quicken register "Sent" instruction transaction that caused the online billpay transaction to be created, that it is a mistake by the financial institution.


    [And I think more info is necessary to be able to analyze the claimed inability to delete the un-matchable confirmation transactions from the register after Accepting.]
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • GeoffGGeoffG ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3
    GeoffG said:

    You should not be receiving any transaction until the payment is actually processed.  Under Account List, what is the connection type and bank name?  Do you have reminders set to show in the register?

    PNC bank does not send "confirmation" transactions.  After the payment transaction is submitted, the check number is updated with the next check. Since BoA uses CheckFree for processing payments, that may explain the difference.
    user since '92 | Quicken Windows Premier - Subscription | Windows 10 Pro version 1903
  • Paul WilsonPaul Wilson Member
    edited January 4
    GeoffG said:

    You should not be receiving any transaction until the payment is actually processed.  Under Account List, what is the connection type and bank name?  Do you have reminders set to show in the register?

    Geoff,

    Thanks for your assistance!

    The account connection type is Direct Connect. The institution is my local bank - First Commonwealth Bank.
    Here are the steps I take that get me the duplicate transactions:

    1. Enter a payment in my register using method/check SEND through a bill reminder or the online bills interface (both result in the duplicate transaction error).
    2. Do an update on that account, or a one-step update, thereby processing the send instruction.
    3. The next time I do an update of either that account or all accounts, that same transaction incorrectly appears as a payment created outside of Quicken. 
    4. I highlight the payment in the downloaded transactions interface and click the 'match' button.
    5. That generates a dialogue box 'there are no transactions to match'.
    6. I occasionally have the option to ignore the transaction but, more often that not, that button is greyed out and I have to accept the transaction, creating a duplicate entry.

    Paul
  • GeoffGGeoffG ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5
    GeoffG said:

    You should not be receiving any transaction until the payment is actually processed.  Under Account List, what is the connection type and bank name?  Do you have reminders set to show in the register?

    I cannot explain why some banks send this confirmation transaction as mshiggins points out.  There may be two workarounds to try however.  With each downloaded transaction you should see edit.  With edit, you should be able to attempt a manual match.  If that fails, do you have an option to delete the download transaction?
    user since '92 | Quicken Windows Premier - Subscription | Windows 10 Pro version 1903
  • mshigginsmshiggins ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5
    GeoffG said:

    You should not be receiving any transaction until the payment is actually processed.  Under Account List, what is the connection type and bank name?  Do you have reminders set to show in the register?

    From C. D. Bales:


    "The next time I do an update of either that account or all accounts, that same transaction incorrectly appears as a payment created outside of Quicken".


    That transaction is CORRECTLY appearing as a "payment created outside of Quicken". As noted before, that is what some financial institutions do; they send, what amounts to, a "confirmation" of a billpay transaction that you told them to create.


    a.) The actual payment transaction (the online billpay transaction) was created by the billpayer at their web site: making that "a payment created outside of Quicken". All you did was supply the instructions; the billpayer created the payment transaction.


    b.) At the end of the day, the Quicken phrasing is immaterial. Regardless of what description Quicken displays, those particular transactions are NOT regular downloaded transactions so they are not grouped with regular downloaded transactions. They are essentially billpay confirmations - they have not cleared the bank as regular downloaded transactions have. And those "confirmations" must be processed before regular downloaded transactions that have cleared the bank (since there may be a regular downloaded transaction that has cleared the bank which will need to be Matched to an already Accepted confirmation transaction - and billpay transactions can be created at the billpayer's web site, meaning the downloaded "confirmation" will then legitimately be a "New" transaction).


    As I mentioned earlier: if your downloaded billpay "confirmation" transactions can not be matched to your existing billpay "Sent" instruction transactions; I believe that is a problem created by your financial institution. [I'm assuming you have not modified the Quicken billpay instruction transaction you Sent, before you try to Match the downloaded confirmation transaction to it.]


    I use the same process as you do for online billpay (Q2017 is my current version; but I have tested in Q2018/Q2019) - only with a different financial institution - and my downloaded billpay confirmation transactions allow me to match them to existing register Sent billpay instructions, when that is the appropriate thing to do.


    Based on my experience (and the dearth of complaints such as yours), I believe Quicken is handling properly formatted downloaded "payment transactions created outside of Quicken" correctly.


    You can try creating a New (test) Quicken file.

    - set up the Quicken account that you pay online bills from for Direct Connect and Online Billpay

    - send a test billpay instruction to the billpayer

    - do another Update


    Note whether the behavior is any different from your regular Quicken file. The Log files from that test Quicken file also might be of some help if you contact Support.


    I suggest you contact Quicken Support (Help > Quicken Support). If the problem is caused by the financial institution, only the financial institution will be able to fix it, but Quicken Support might be able to help get that ball rolling. And if it turns out to be a Quicken problem, Support should be able to get it passed along to the appropriate party within Quicken, Inc.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Paul WilsonPaul Wilson Member
    edited January 5
    Thanks everyone for the great information.

    My only wish is that I could successfully ignore the billpay confirmation, but my only available options are accept and match as ignore is greyed out.

    However, my only real option is to accept (because match isn't really an option - Quicken recognizes no matching transaction). If I then attempt to delete the duplicate transaction, Quicken prompts me that it cannot be deleted because it is an online payment and that I rather should use edit:transaction:cancel payment. I don't want the payment canceled, however.

    Again, thanks for the help. I'll reach out to support. You guys are great. Thank you!

    Paul

     
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