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I bought 120 bonds. Quicken insists I bought 1200 bonds

Quicken shows the wrong amount of bonds.  I try to enter 120, and the total amount, and Quicken shows 1200 and then tells me to make a placeholder entry.  It probably has something to to with base 100 but when I enter 120, I mean 120, and if I try to finagle by entering 12 to wind up with 120, the price is all wrong.  I am running Quicken for Windows R18.16, Build 27.1.18.16.  I saw postings about Quicken for Mac having this problem but I am having a Windows-based problem.  Why not just get rid of the "base 100" so I can enter the precise amount of bonds, the total I paid, and let it set a price?

Answers

  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    What is the total face value of the bonds that you bought.  Divide that amount by $1000 and input the result as the "number of bonds you bought".

    Except for Savings Bonds, and the like, Bonds are priced (by the Securities industry, (NOT Q) as a percentage of $1000.  Which is why Q's prices are a percentage of $1000 and 1 bond = $1000.
    Don't blame Q, blame the Bond industry.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • frplettfrplett Member
    Apparently the bond I bought is in increments of $100.  I bought $12,000 worth of bonds at a premium.  Merrill Lynch shows me as purchasing 120 bonds.  Forget what the bond industry does, and let me put in my # of bonds, my total cost, and let Quicken determine the price.  
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Go read Q Help about purchasing bonds.  You bought 12 of them.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    While you did actually buy 12 $1,000 bonds, once you enter that in the BuyBonds wizard of Quicken, the program will show that you own 120 'shares' of that bond valued somewhere in the $100/share range.  Subsequently, you (or your download) will update prices in that same range.  
  • frplettfrplett Member
    Stop telling me what you think I bought.  You are simply flat wrong.  Merrill Lynch tells me I bought 120 bonds at $100 par value, which would be $12 K, but I bought at a premium, so it was somewhat over $13 K.  Just let me put in what my broker tells me I did buy, which is 120 bonds at $13 K, and let the price per bond calculate.  Do not assume whether it is $100 or $1,000 a bond.  It could be either. Or something else.  Quicken is outsmarting itself and showing bad information.  
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    "Stop telling me what you think I bought. "
    You told us that you bought $12,000 face value of bonds.  In Q, that MUST be recorded as 12 bonds.
    You've already demonstrated that what you're trying to do isn't working ... so try OUR way.
    And remember, one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over ... and expecting the results to change.

    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • ps56kps56k SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    frplett said:
    Merrill Lynch shows me as purchasing 120 bonds. 
    Is this from ....
    - a paper statement -
    - an online download -
    - One Step Update -
    - or their website positions -
    Either way, it is interesting on how to reconcile what metrics the statement is showing vs what Quicken wants for input data..
    Quicken 2020 Deluxe - Subscription - Windows 10
  • volvogirlvolvogirl SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    So if you sell one, are you selling $1,000 or only $100?
  • frplettfrplett Member
    The trade confirmation shows me buying $12,000 of Ford Bonds at a price of $110.045 for $13,205.40.  The only way $110.045 makes sense is for 120 bonds, which is what ML showed for a while.  Now the online statement shows $12,000 and a slightly higher price, so I show something higher than $13,205.40, but not substantially.  Quicken in my view would be best off assuming nothing about the bond market, let me put in the # of bonds, and either the price or the dollar value.  
  • frplettfrplett Member
    It is from an online trade confirmation.  
  • frplettfrplett Member
    See capture attached. ML says 120, you insist on 1200.  
  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Quicken displays the number of shares which is 10 times the number of bonds: https://www.quicken.com/support/how-add-bond-quicken-security-list

    I suggest you delete the placeholders transactions.  ML should be notified they're posting the number of bonds where Quicken expects the number of shares.
    Quicken user since 1997
    Premier on Windows 10
  • frplettfrplett Member
    I suggest that you stop trying to get me to tell ML how to do things, and instead change Quicken to remove all assumptions as to how you think the bond markets work, instead allow me to enter bonds I bought, the dollar value, or the price, and be done with it, just as you do for the stock market. Somebody at Quicken is not listening.
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    We're NOT telling ML how to do this.  We're telling YOU, that if you want to set this up in Quicken, you need to do it the way that we're telling you.

    OR, you can hold you breath, and stomp your feet,  until Q makes the changes that you're demanding ... but will NEVER get!
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • ps56kps56k SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    frplett said:
    See capture attached. ML says 120
    Just following along on the topic -   learning -
    Have never bought bonds in any of my brokerage accounts.
    How would I go about finding, specifying, and buying these specific Ford bond shares
    in my - Schwab, Fidelity, or Vanguard brokerage accounts
    Quicken 2020 Deluxe - Subscription - Windows 10
  • mshigginsmshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    From C. D. Bales:
    " ... let me put in my # of bonds, my total cost, and let Quicken determine the price."

    That's exactly what Quicken does for every security purchase - but you seem to be mis-understanding how Quicken treats the purchase of bonds. That's indicated by the subject name you chose for this discussion.

    Quicken doesn't insist you own 1200 "bonds"; following the entry of your Bonds Bought transaction for 120 bonds, Quicken insists you own 1200 "shares" of that bond.

    Quicken normalizes the "number of bonds" bought - it multiplies that number by 10 and treats the resulting value as "number of shares" (all Quicken securities are thus held in a common unit: "shares"). You can see that clearly, if you Edit a transaction that you originally entered as a "Bonds Bought" transaction: it will now show as a "Buy - Shares Bought" transaction (**) and the field where you originally entered the "Number of bonds" will now show "Number of shares" (which will = original number-of-bonds * 10). 

    I entered the following "Bonds Bought" transaction in a Quicken test file. 
    Number of "bonds": 120
    Price: blank 
    Total cost: $13,205.40  

    When asked, I told Quicken to "recalculate" the "Price (recommended)". The resulting Quicken "Buy - Shares Bought" transaction shows that I bought 1200 "shares" of that bond for a Total Cost of $13,205.40, with a "Price paid" of $11.0045 "per share".

    [I am staying out of the part of the discussion that pertains to how many real-world bonds you actually bought. I am only addressing your claim that you really bought 120 bonds. Obviously if you get any of the real-world details incorrect, your Quicken values can't be correct ... even after taking into account how Quicken handles bonds.]

    I doubt that Quicken is going to change its long established process and start carrying bond holdings in "number of bonds". So I think you should learn to work with Quicken's treatment of bonds as it is currently designed; I'm not clear what problem that causes once you understand how it works and get the inputs correct. 

    [If you're concerned about retaining a record of the actual quoted price for the transaction, you can key that into the transaction Memo field.] 

    [ (**) During testing, I discovered a peculiar behavior of the Bonds Bought transaction; I don't know whether this could be involved in some of the apparent confusion on this subject - but it confused me. 

    If you create a New "bond" security in Quicken (tested in Q2019 R18.16) and for the security Type you choose "Bond" (rather than "Corporate Bond" or "Municipal Bond", etc.); when you enter a Bonds Bought transaction for that bond security, Quicken will leave that transaction as a "Bonds Bought" transaction, showing the number of bonds (rather than the number of shares). Elsewhere (in Investing >  Portfolio, for example), Quicken will show the holdings of that bond in number of shares (number of bonds * 10). Later, if that Security "Type" is assigned a specific bond type, the original "Bonds Bought" transaction is automatically changed to a "Buy - Shares bought" transaction and its number of bonds is changed to number of shares (as noted above). 

    I can't think of any explanation for this behavior.]

    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Quicken SarahQuicken Sarah Administrator, Moderator mod
    Hello All,

    This thread has become argumentative and is being closed.

    Thank you,

    Sarah
This discussion has been closed.