Show Deposits before Payments on same day entries to prevent neg. Running Balance (+2 merged votes)

Please make Quicken 2019 for windows 10 display deposits before payments that occur on the same day. I think it only happens with deposit and payment Reminders when they show up on the register. But, it's still a problem. It makes the register show a negative balance on that day when there is none. Can be shocking. 
Tagged:
22
22 votes

New · Last Updated

«1

Comments

  • Quicken_NatalieQuicken_Natalie Moderator mod
    Hello SvenBridstrup,

    Thank you for bringing this concern to the community!

    Currently, Quicken does not have the capability to place Deposit entries preceding Payment entries or vice versa. I do, however, understand how that causes the negative numbers in your running balance.

    I went ahead and turned this thread into an Idea. That way other users can vote on it. Our developer's review idea threads to get an idea of what people would like Quicken to offer.

    Thank you!

    -Quicken Natalie
    -Quicken Natalie 
     
  • SvenBridstrupSvenBridstrup Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20
    ;) well I vote YES! How do I vote?
  • Greg_the_GeekGreg_the_Geek SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    In the first post, click on the up arrow in the blue box.
    Quicken 2017 H&B - Windows 10
  • SvenBridstrupSvenBridstrup Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20
    > @Greg_the_Geek said:
    > In the first post, click on the up arrow in the blue box.

    Ah hard to see on Samsung Internet in Dark Mode. Thanks!
  • Jim_HarmanJim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Note that "banks always post credits before debits" is an oversimplification. See for example
    https://www.suntrust.com/content/dam/suntrust/us/en/small-business/2017/documents/posting-order-process.pdf

    and this
    https://www.tdbank.com/newprocess/

    Caveat emptor! Despite changes in the past few years, it is still safest to assume that banks will post transactions in the order that earns them the most fees.
    -- Jim QWin Premier subscription
  • SvenBridstrupSvenBridstrup Member ✭✭✭
    I should clarify - I am speaking specifically of scheduled deposits and payments. I have multiple scheduled transactions that populate the register 60 days in advance. For instance, right now on July 20, in my register the 1st of August and September have upcoming income deposits and payments displayed (like our mortgage). Quicken always lists the payments first and deposits last. That, sometimes results in red negative balance for that day until the deposit line.

    This seems like an obvious bug (it certainly isn't a feature!) and easily fixed.
  • Jim_HarmanJim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you are doing it that far in advance, maybe you could schedule the deposits on the first of the month and the payments on the 2nd.

    Or if they must be on the same day you could have them not auto-enter in your register and accept them in deposits-first order.
    -- Jim QWin Premier subscription
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Banks always post credits before debits on the same day to prevent NSFs.  Quicken should show Deposits before Payments to be consistent.
    UNTRUE.  I developed, and managed the system for Wells Fargo that processed all of the $ transactions that went thru the bank.
    Checks and other payment transactions had a "Transaction Code" in the high 50's ... while deposits had a TranCode in the high 70's... and the file that we sent to the checking account system was sorted, by Account number and then TranCode.
    So the Debits came before the Credits.

    And those "daylight overdrafts" as they're known were something that we looked for, because it was a possible indication of "check kiting".
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • SvenBridstrupSvenBridstrup Member ✭✭✭
    > @Jim_Harman said:
    > If you are doing it that far in advance, maybe you could schedule the deposits on the first of the month and the payments on the 2nd.
    >
    > Or if they must be on the same day you could have them not auto-enter in your register and accept them in deposits-first order.

    Yes, of course there are workarounds like this. I usually make a manual adjustment whenever it happens. But, it would be nice if the program did it automatically, or at least had the option.
  • UKRUKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think, the easiest solution would be to talk the programmers into making the sort order
    by ascending Date (newest transactions at the bottom of the register) to also sort by descending Amount (from +99,999,999.99 to 0 to -99,999,999.99). That would show transactions within the same date, deposits first, then withdrawals.

  • Kenneth CarterKenneth Carter Member ✭✭
    as a user, I want to see my transactions listed in the same day sorted by deposits first followed by payments.
  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    That does appears to be the default order when the register sorted by date.
    Quicken user since 1997
    Premier on Windows 10
  • EndureFortEndureFort Unconfirmed, Member ✭✭
    I have the same as OP. In the register I have automatic deposits, withdraws and reminders. My register is sorted by date and it is placing the deposits after the payments. I cannot find a preference or setting to change this. Can it be changed?
  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have the same as OP. In the register I have automatic deposits, withdraws and reminders. My register is sorted by date and it is placing the deposits after the payments. I cannot find a preference or setting to change this. Can it be changed?
    Please confirm the small triangle just to the right of the Date column title points up.
    Quicken user since 1997
    Premier on Windows 10
  • EndureFortEndureFort Unconfirmed, Member ✭✭
    Yes, it is pointing up.
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why do you believe that deposits should be displayed first?  SEVERAL banks that I used to work for (as the Check Processing Systems Manager) sort the debits before the deposits.

    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • Jim_HarmanJim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 26
    (link removed - self-reference to merged thread)

    For my main checking account it appears that deposits always appear before withdrawals in the register for a given date. I generally accept banking transactions one at a time in the order they appear in the Downloaded Transactions area at the bottom of the register.
    -- Jim QWin Premier subscription
  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 25
    My registers all appear to be following the rule as documented in Quicken's built-in Help: press F1


    Note: I don't display reminders in registers.
    Quicken user since 1997
    Premier on Windows 10
  • EndureFortEndureFort Unconfirmed, Member ✭✭
    edited August 27
    > @NotACPA said:
    > Why do you believe that deposits should be displayed first?  SEVERAL banks that I used to work for (as the Check Processing Systems Manager) sort the debits before the deposits.

    [removed - violation of community guidelines]  I don't necessarily believe they should but asked the question if they could. An auto-deposit from an employer, in my case, is deposited to my bank generally within the first few hours of the day. My bank tends to withdraw my payments towards the end of the day. It would be nice to see that flow in Quicken.

    > @Jim_Harman said:
    > This request is already entered and discussed at length here
    > ...
    >
    > For my main checking account it appears that deposits always appear before withdrawals in the register for a given date. I generally accept banking transactions one at a time in the order they appear in the Downloaded Transactions area at the bottom of the register.

    Jim, thank you for the link. I see the request has been noted as an idea. I may follow up on that thread with my thumbs up.

    > @Sherlock said:
    > My registers all appear to be following the rule as documented in Quicken's built-in Help: press F1
    > ...
    >
    >
    > Note: I don't display reminders in registers.

    Sherlock, thank you as well. I see the same rules through help but my register is not sorting by that method. For example, on August 30th, the register starts with an auto withdraw, then goes to two uncleared payments, then another auto withdraw, then the auto-deposit of a paycheque. Can you offer a suggestion or should I call support?

    Thanks
  • EndureFortEndureFort Unconfirmed, Member ✭✭
    > @Quicken Natalie said:
    > Hello SvenBridstrup,
    >
    > Thank you for bringing this concern to the community!
    >
    > Currently, Quicken does not have the capability to place Deposit entries preceding Payment entries or vice versa. I do, however, understand how that causes the negative numbers in your running balance.
    >
    > I went ahead and turned this thread into an Idea. That way other users can vote on it. Our developer's review idea threads to get an idea of what people would like Quicken to offer.
    >
    > Thank you!
    >
    > -Quicken Natalie

    I vote yes too! Would love to be able to change the flow in the register to show deposits before withdraws or some preference ability to change sort order. Thanks!
  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭

    > @Sherlock said:
    > My registers all appear to be following the rule as documented in Quicken's built-in Help: press F1
    > ...
    >
    >
    > Note: I don't display reminders in registers.

    Sherlock, thank you as well. I see the same rules through help but my register is not sorting by that method. For example, on August 30th, the register starts with an auto withdraw, then goes to two uncleared payments, then another auto withdraw, then the auto-deposit of a paycheque. Can you offer a suggestion or should I call support?

    Thanks
     Please provide the year and version of Quicken being used: select Help > About Quicken

    Have these transactions actually been entered in the register or are they reminders?
    Quicken user since 1997
    Premier on Windows 10
  • Jim_HarmanJim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 26
    In QWin US Subscription as in the Help and as I noted above, when the register is sorted by Date, transactions that are actually recorded in the register appear to always show deposits before payments for a given date.

    However if I enable showing reminders in the register, the order of the reminders seems random.  I have two monthly reminders set for the same day of the month, one a deposit and one a payment. If I set the register to show reminders for the next 12 months, sometimes the deposit shows first and sometimes the payment.

    This appears to be a bug.
    -- Jim QWin Premier subscription
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27
    [removed - no longer in context] 

    I developed and managed the system at Wells Fargo that sends ALL $ transactions to their respective "systems of record".
    The customary trancode for a check was a 57, and the customary trancode for a deposit was 78.
    The transactions file sent to checking was sorted by account number and then by trancode.  SO, since 57 comes before 78 (removed - violation of community guidelines) then debits came before credits.
    QED
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • Rocket J SquirrelRocket J Squirrel SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    For finer control of transaction order, sort your register by "Date / Order Entered" and enter your transactions in the order you want to see them on each date. For full manual control, sort by "Order Entered".
    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win7 Pro & Win10 Pro.
  • EndureFortEndureFort Unconfirmed, Member ✭✭
    > @Sherlock said:
    > (Quote)
    >  Please provide the year and version of Quicken being used: select Help > About Quicken
    >
    > Have these transactions actually been entered in the register or are they reminders?

    Year: 2019 Version: R16.22 Build: 27.1.16.22 Edition: Canada

    That is a great point, thank you. These I am referring to are reminders or upcoming transactions, not entered in the register yet.
  • EndureFortEndureFort Unconfirmed, Member ✭✭
    edited August 27
    > @NotACPA said:
    > "[removed]  I developed and managed the system at Wells Fargo that sends ALL $ transactions to their respective "systems of record".The customary trancode for a check was a 57, and the customary trancode for a deposit was 78.The transactions file sent to checking was sorted by account number and then by trancode.  SO, since 57 comes before 78 (removed - violation of community guidelines) then debits came before credits.QED

    [removed - violation of community guidelines]

    I am making a request to show deposits before withdraws in the reminders area of the register. Nothing further than that. With all due sincerity, thank you.
  • EndureFortEndureFort Unconfirmed, Member ✭✭
    > @Rocket J Squirrel said:
    > For finer control of transaction order, sort your register by "Date / Order Entered" and enter your transactions in the order you want to see them on each date. For full manual control, sort by "Order Entered".

    Thanks, Rocket. I just found that sorting option and tried it out. It shuffled some reminders around and I'll play around with it more. It didn't put deposits before withdraws but I like the date / order entered sorting option.
  • ps56kps56k SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 26
    EndureFort said:One last time; I am making a request to show deposits before withdraws in the reminders area of the register. Nothing further than that.
    Why ? - since they are not actually affecting the actual Register,
    what's the difference, since they would be entered on the "same date" I'm guessing.
    And how does your Reminder date entered compare to the subsequent actual date of the cleared transaction ....
    Quicken 2020 Deluxe - Subscription - Windows 10
  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    > @Sherlock said:
    > (Quote)
    >  Please provide the year and version of Quicken being used: select Help > About Quicken
    >
    > Have these transactions actually been entered in the register or are they reminders?

    Year: 2019 Version: R16.22 Build: 27.1.16.22 Edition: Canada

    That is a great point, thank you. These I am referring to are reminders or upcoming transactions, not entered in the register yet.
    If you haven't already, you may want to consider using the Projected Balances view instead of showing the reminders in the registers.  The view uses the Closing Balance instead of a running balance.
    Quicken user since 1997
    Premier on Windows 10
This discussion has been closed.