Show Deposits before Payments on same day entries to prevent neg. Running Balance (+2 merged votes)

SvenBridstrup

Please make Quicken 2019 for windows 10 display deposits before payments that occur on the same day. I think it only happens with deposit and payment Reminders when they show up on the register. But, it's still a problem. It makes the register show a negative balance on that day when there is none. Can be shocking. 

Quicken_Natalie

Hello SvenBridstrup,

Thank you for bringing this concern to the community!

Currently, Quicken does not have the capability to place Deposit entries preceding Payment entries or vice versa. I do, however, understand how that causes the negative numbers in your running balance.

I went ahead and turned this thread into an Idea. That way other users can vote on it. Our developer's review idea threads to get an idea of what people would like Quicken to offer.

Thank you!

-Quicken Natalie

SvenBridstrup

well I vote YES! How do I vote?

Greg_the_Geek

In the first post, click on the up arrow in the blue box.

SvenBridstrup

> @Greg_the_Geek said:
> In the first post, click on the up arrow in the blue box.

Ah hard to see on Samsung Internet in Dark Mode. Thanks!

Jim_Harman

Note that "banks always post credits before debits" is an oversimplification. See for example
https://www.suntrust.com/content/dam/suntrust/us/en/small-business/2017/documents/posting-order-process.pdf

and this
https://www.tdbank.com/newprocess/

Caveat emptor! Despite changes in the past few years, it is still safest to assume that banks will post transactions in the order that earns them the most fees.

SvenBridstrup

I should clarify - I am speaking specifically of scheduled deposits and payments. I have multiple scheduled transactions that populate the register 60 days in advance. For instance, right now on July 20, in my register the 1st of August and September have upcoming income deposits and payments displayed (like our mortgage). Quicken always lists the payments first and deposits last. That, sometimes results in red negative balance for that day until the deposit line.

This seems like an obvious bug (it certainly isn't a feature!) and easily fixed.

Jim_Harman

If you are doing it that far in advance, maybe you could schedule the deposits on the first of the month and the payments on the 2nd.

Or if they must be on the same day you could have them not auto-enter in your register and accept them in deposits-first order.

NotACPA

Steve Cannon said:

Banks always post credits before debits on the same day to prevent NSFs.  Quicken should show Deposits before Payments to be consistent.

UNTRUE.  I developed, and managed the system for Wells Fargo that processed all of the $ transactions that went thru the bank.

Checks and other payment transactions had a "Transaction Code" in the high 50's ... while deposits had a TranCode in the high 70's... and the file that we sent to the checking account system was sorted, by Account number and then TranCode.

So the Debits came before the Credits.

And those "daylight overdrafts" as they're known were something that we looked for, because it was a possible indication of "check kiting".

SvenBridstrup

> @Jim_Harman said:
> If you are doing it that far in advance, maybe you could schedule the deposits on the first of the month and the payments on the 2nd.
>
> Or if they must be on the same day you could have them not auto-enter in your register and accept them in deposits-first order.

Yes, of course there are workarounds like this. I usually make a manual adjustment whenever it happens. But, it would be nice if the program did it automatically, or at least had the option.

UKR

I think, the easiest solution would be to talk the programmers into making the sort order

by ascending Date (newest transactions at the bottom of the register) to also sort by descending Amount (from +99,999,999.99 to 0 to -99,999,999.99). That would show transactions within the same date, deposits first, then withdrawals.

Kenneth Carter

as a user, I want to see my transactions listed in the same day sorted by deposits first followed by payments.

Sherlock

That does appears to be the default order when the register sorted by date.

EndureFort

I have the same as OP. In the register I have automatic deposits, withdraws and reminders. My register is sorted by date and it is placing the deposits after the payments. I cannot find a preference or setting to change this. Can it be changed?

Sherlock

EndureFort said:

I have the same as OP. In the register I have automatic deposits, withdraws and reminders. My register is sorted by date and it is placing the deposits after the payments. I cannot find a preference or setting to change this. Can it be changed?

Please confirm the small triangle just to the right of the Date column title points up.

EndureFort

Yes, it is pointing up.

NotACPA

Why do you believe that deposits should be displayed first?  SEVERAL banks that I used to work for (as the Check Processing Systems Manager) sort the debits before the deposits.

Jim_Harman

(link removed - self-reference to merged thread)

For my main checking account it appears that deposits always appear before withdrawals in the register for a given date. I generally accept banking transactions one at a time in the order they appear in the Downloaded Transactions area at the bottom of the register.

Sherlock

My registers all appear to be following the rule as documented in Quicken's built-in Help: press F1


Note: I don't display reminders in registers.

EndureFort

> @NotACPA said:
> Why do you believe that deposits should be displayed first?  SEVERAL banks that I used to work for (as the Check Processing Systems Manager) sort the debits before the deposits.

[removed - violation of community guidelines]  I don't necessarily believe they should but asked the question if they could. An auto-deposit from an employer, in my case, is deposited to my bank generally within the first few hours of the day. My bank tends to withdraw my payments towards the end of the day. It would be nice to see that flow in Quicken.

> @Jim_Harman said:
> This request is already entered and discussed at length here
> ...
>
> For my main checking account it appears that deposits always appear before withdrawals in the register for a given date. I generally accept banking transactions one at a time in the order they appear in the Downloaded Transactions area at the bottom of the register.

Jim, thank you for the link. I see the request has been noted as an idea. I may follow up on that thread with my thumbs up.

> @Sherlock said:
> My registers all appear to be following the rule as documented in Quicken's built-in Help: press F1
> ...
>
>
> Note: I don't display reminders in registers.

Sherlock, thank you as well. I see the same rules through help but my register is not sorting by that method. For example, on August 30th, the register starts with an auto withdraw, then goes to two uncleared payments, then another auto withdraw, then the auto-deposit of a paycheque. Can you offer a suggestion or should I call support?

Thanks

EndureFort

> @Quicken Natalie said:
> Hello SvenBridstrup,
>
> Thank you for bringing this concern to the community!
>
> Currently, Quicken does not have the capability to place Deposit entries preceding Payment entries or vice versa. I do, however, understand how that causes the negative numbers in your running balance.
>
> I went ahead and turned this thread into an Idea. That way other users can vote on it. Our developer's review idea threads to get an idea of what people would like Quicken to offer.
>
> Thank you!
>
> -Quicken Natalie

I vote yes too! Would love to be able to change the flow in the register to show deposits before withdraws or some preference ability to change sort order. Thanks!

Sherlock

EndureFort said:

> @Sherlock said:
> My registers all appear to be following the rule as documented in Quicken's built-in Help: press F1
> ...
>
>
> Note: I don't display reminders in registers.

Sherlock, thank you as well. I see the same rules through help but my register is not sorting by that method. For example, on August 30th, the register starts with an auto withdraw, then goes to two uncleared payments, then another auto withdraw, then the auto-deposit of a paycheque. Can you offer a suggestion or should I call support?

Thanks

 Please provide the year and version of Quicken being used: select Help > About Quicken

Have these transactions actually been entered in the register or are they reminders?

Jim_Harman

In QWin US Subscription as in the Help and as I noted above, when the register is sorted by Date, transactions that are actually recorded in the register appear to always show deposits before payments for a given date.

However if I enable showing reminders in the register, the order of the reminders seems random.  I have two monthly reminders set for the same day of the month, one a deposit and one a payment. If I set the register to show reminders for the next 12 months, sometimes the deposit shows first and sometimes the payment.

This appears to be a bug.

NotACPA

[removed - no longer in context] 

I developed and managed the system at Wells Fargo that sends ALL $ transactions to their respective "systems of record".

The customary trancode for a check was a 57, and the customary trancode for a deposit was 78.

The transactions file sent to checking was sorted by account number and then by trancode.  SO, since 57 comes before 78 (removed - violation of community guidelines) then debits came before credits.

QED

Rocket J Squirrel

For finer control of transaction order, sort your register by "Date / Order Entered" and enter your transactions in the order you want to see them on each date. For full manual control, sort by "Order Entered".

EndureFort

> @Sherlock said:
> (Quote)
>  Please provide the year and version of Quicken being used: select Help > About Quicken
>
> Have these transactions actually been entered in the register or are they reminders?

Year: 2019 Version: R16.22 Build: 27.1.16.22 Edition: Canada

That is a great point, thank you. These I am referring to are reminders or upcoming transactions, not entered in the register yet.

EndureFort

> @NotACPA said:
> "[removed]  I developed and managed the system at Wells Fargo that sends ALL $ transactions to their respective "systems of record".The customary trancode for a check was a 57, and the customary trancode for a deposit was 78.The transactions file sent to checking was sorted by account number and then by trancode.  SO, since 57 comes before 78 (removed - violation of community guidelines) then debits came before credits.QED

[removed - violation of community guidelines]

I am making a request to show deposits before withdraws in the reminders area of the register. Nothing further than that. With all due sincerity, thank you.

EndureFort

> @Rocket J Squirrel said:
> For finer control of transaction order, sort your register by "Date / Order Entered" and enter your transactions in the order you want to see them on each date. For full manual control, sort by "Order Entered".

Thanks, Rocket. I just found that sorting option and tried it out. It shuffled some reminders around and I'll play around with it more. It didn't put deposits before withdraws but I like the date / order entered sorting option.

Ps56k2

EndureFort said:One last time; I am making a request to show deposits before withdraws in the reminders area of the register. Nothing further than that.

Why ? - since they are not actually affecting the actual Register,
what's the difference, since they would be entered on the "same date" I'm guessing.
And how does your Reminder date entered compare to the subsequent actual date of the cleared transaction ....

Sherlock

EndureFort said:

> @Sherlock said:
> (Quote)
>  Please provide the year and version of Quicken being used: select Help > About Quicken
>
> Have these transactions actually been entered in the register or are they reminders?

Year: 2019 Version: R16.22 Build: 27.1.16.22 Edition: Canada

That is a great point, thank you. These I am referring to are reminders or upcoming transactions, not entered in the register yet.

If you haven't already, you may want to consider using the Projected Balances view instead of showing the reminders in the registers.  The view uses the Closing Balance instead of a running balance.