Reports Need to Show Taxable vs Non-Taxable Investment Returns

Steve29
Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
I'm still using both Q2007 and Q2020 and now that it's tax time, I am recording the tax consequences of various investments. Q2020 makes this much harder. Q2007 separates Dividends, Long Term Capital Gains and Realized Gains into two categories -- taxable and non-taxable. Q2020 lumps taxable & non-taxable together into a single total. So you have to export an Excel file, sort it properly and add everything up yourself. What a waste of time.

Of course, Q2020 'knows' the difference between taxable and non-taxable gains, because they are in different kinds of accounts (the non-taxable stuff is in IRAs) but there's no way to indicate that these are taxable or non-taxable accounts, as there is in Q2007.

In the attached images, you can see the way Q2007 allows you to show that an account is tax deferred, something Q2020 has no provision for. And you can see the difference in reports -- Q2007 breaks out taxable and non-taxable. Q2020 doesn't.

This is just silly and needs to be fixed.
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  • Pat Bell
    Pat Bell Member
    edited March 2020
    I am a new user of Q Mac 2018 and find all dividends (taxable and non-taxable) are in one income category.  Using the "Tax Report" does not accurately reflect the true nature of the dividends. 

    It is a hassle but I set up a unique category for taxable dividends (i.e. 185 Dividends-T) and another for non-taxably from IRA accounts, etc. (i.e. 186 Dividends-NT).  To record a dividend in any investment account use "Miscellaneous Income" in the Type box and type in the unique category (185 for a taxable dividend) in the "Category" box opposite the amount box. This will segregate the dividends in the Reports.  

    Quicken should expand the options for recording different types of investment income; however, until then, this approach seems to work for me.
  • RickO
    RickO SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited March 2018
    You could also use tags to segregate the taxable from the nontaxable.
    Quicken Mac Subscription; Quicken Mac user since the early 90s
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2018
    And if the investments are re-invested, with your method you'll need to create a second transaction as a BUY.

    Currently, Quicken Mac will do any reinvested dividend as ONE transaction, and as you noted will not distinguish between taxable and non-taxable dividends. 

    What I've done to alleviate the double entry is retain the "one transaction" of reinvest dividend and then create two separate reports in Quicken Mac.

    One report is for taxable dividends and capital gains, the other is for tax deferred (non-taxable) dividends and capital gains.

    I segregate the two by customizing and selecting only taxable accounts in one and non-taxable accounts in the other.

    I even have a third report that has both taxable and non-taxable accounts.

    Just an alternative way to handle things.  
  • RickO
    RickO SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited January 2020

    And if the investments are re-invested, with your method you'll need to create a second transaction as a BUY.

    Currently, Quicken Mac will do any reinvested dividend as ONE transaction, and as you noted will not distinguish between taxable and non-taxable dividends. 

    What I've done to alleviate the double entry is retain the "one transaction" of reinvest dividend and then create two separate reports in Quicken Mac.

    One report is for taxable dividends and capital gains, the other is for tax deferred (non-taxable) dividends and capital gains.

    I segregate the two by customizing and selecting only taxable accounts in one and non-taxable accounts in the other.

    I even have a third report that has both taxable and non-taxable accounts.

    Just an alternative way to handle things.  

    Dividends can be tax exempt even though they are from a taxable account. So this method may not fully solve the problem for the OP. 
    Quicken Mac Subscription; Quicken Mac user since the early 90s
  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    These workarounds just point to the fact that Q2020 is doing a much poorer job that Q2007. Anybody who doesn't pay attention to the tax-ability of dividend income is wasting lots of money. It's a very important consideration with any investment! Q2007 made the distinction clear by allowing two transaction types: "Dividend Reinvest" and Dividend Reinvest Non Taxable". Q2020 should do the same. It's long past due for this feature to be implemented. It's elemental, basic. Ground zero for investing.
  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    I should add that even though Q2020 doesn't have a checkbox for "tax deferred", it does allow you to categorize an account as an IRA, which is the same thing. The problem is that this seems to make no difference as far as taxability of gains is concerned. That's a big omission.
  • J_Mike
    J_Mike SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, QMac does not have a single report that differentiates between taxable and non-taxable investment returns.

    Have you looked at the Tax Schedule Report? This report summarizes all taxable information.
    QWin & QMac (Deluxe) Subscription
    Quicken user since 1991

  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Thanks for that. I just tried it. I guess you have to make the assumption that anything listed as "Dividends" is actually taxable dividends. And then you do a category summary to see total Dividends and compare.

    But there are several problems with this. First, the numbers don't match up with anything reported in Q2007. Okay, I could try to compare the individual transactions and figure out what the difference is. But the problem with doing that is that the Tax Schedule doesn't indicate which account the transactions come from--the report within Quicken shows it, but the CSV leaves it out. So you have to make multiple reports, with each showing a separate account. That's a lot of work.

    But the fact that Quicken seems to know what's taxable and what isn't just goes to show that it could easily split out taxable and non-taxable returns in a category summary.

    Thanks again -- I hope this improves in the future.
  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Mike -- one more question. My data was originally imported from Q2007. And I see now that my IRAs were not categorized as IRAs. To try your Tax Summary report idea I made a copy of my data file and recategorized them. That didn't seem to do any harm, but I'm wondering what kinds of effects such a change might have.

    Thanks for any light you can shed --
  • J_Mike
    J_Mike SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Steve29 said:
    Mike -- one more question. My data was originally imported from Q2007. And I see now that my IRAs were not categorized as IRAs. To try your Tax Summary report idea I made a copy of my data file and recategorized them. That didn't seem to do any harm, but I'm wondering what kinds of effects such a change might have.

    Thanks for any light you can shed --
    I take "recategorized them" to mean that you changed the account type from some other type to an IRA Account. I would recommend you do this for your regular data file. I am not aware of any negative effects. 

    An interesting feature of QMac is that one can readily change an account type - e.g., from a brokerage to different taxdeferred and then change them back. The only noticeable effect is the account moves back and forth between the Brokerage group and the Retirement group.
    QWin & QMac (Deluxe) Subscription
    Quicken user since 1991

  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    Great. Thanks. That's what it appeared to do, but I wasn't sure if I was missing something. Other than starting a thread here, is there a better way to lobby for the taxable vs. non-taxable reporting?
  • J_Mike
    J_Mike SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Steve29
    Back to your original query regarding taxable vs nontaxable dividends.

    You can use the flexibility of the QMac investment registers to help get quick answers.

    Example for dividends;
    Select the Investing group header in the sidebar.
    Select Transactions.
    Set Date Range to Last Year.
    Select All Investing Accounts.
    Select Income.
    The register now displays all investment account income transactions for last year.

    Move up to the Search field - upper-right.
    Enter Dividend Income.
    The register now displays a;; dividends for last year.
    The total dividends is at top-right of register.

    Now change All Investing Accounts to All Brokerage Accounts.
    Register displays all taxable dividends.

    Change to All Retirement Accounts to see nontaxable dividends.

    Note that you can also select each individual account to get totals by account.

    This doesn't give you everything in a single view - but it gets you good info quickly and easier than generating reports.

    Note in Searching - click on the magnifying glass to get a drop-down list of columns. You can narrow the search to a specific column (must be a displayed column).
    QWin & QMac (Deluxe) Subscription
    Quicken user since 1991

  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks Mike. Good to know -- and it will undoubtedly be useful in other contexts. But here, it didn't work for me. Searching for "dividend Income" works for something like a CD where the dividend generates cash in the account. But for an investment account, you're looking for "reinvest dividend". You can search for those, but since they are reinvestments they don't produce cash and the total is zero, which isn't helpful. I want a total of the "invest amt" column, not the "Amount" column. Can't see how to get it.
  • J_Mike
    J_Mike SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    For your example of Dividends (cash) or Reinvedt Dividend, the default Category is the same - Dividend Income. Make sure that the Category column is displayed in your register and the search will give you both cash and reinvestments.
    QWin & QMac (Deluxe) Subscription
    Quicken user since 1991

  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    Sorry to disagree, but the correct category would be Reinvest Dividend. No cash is added to the account, as it would be with a Dividend Income transaction. The dividends are immediately turned back into shares of the fund. So when Quicken adds up the Amount column, the total is zero. What I'm looking for is a total of the value of the transaction. That's what's relevant for taxes, and that's what you see totaled in Q2007 and (presumably) in the Tax Schedule report.
  • J_Mike
    J_Mike SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    The transaction Type is different - Dividend Income vs Reinvest Dividend.
    The default Category is the same for both - Investments:Dividend Income

    See screenshot for examples of each Type.
    QWin & QMac (Deluxe) Subscription
    Quicken user since 1991

  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, I understand. But my "Reinvest Dividend" transactions don't produce a "balance". From the picture you've post, it looks like yours don't either -- you're only getting a total for "Dividend Income." The Reinvestment produces $0. So a total of those transactions would be zero.
  • J_Mike
    J_Mike SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    OOOPS - it finally dawned on me what you have been saying.
    You are correct - the underlying value for reinvested dividends is not included in the total.
    QWin & QMac (Deluxe) Subscription
    Quicken user since 1991

  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks, Mike. Your suggestions were helpful anyway, and the Tax Schedule is good to know about. But reporting is one of the weakest things about QMac and I'm wondering whether there's anything else I can do to weigh in on the need for improvements.
  • Leslie Jones
    Leslie Jones Member ✭✭
    I would totally agree with Steve 29. I have also experienced lots of problems differentiating between Investment income that is NT and Taxable. I much prefer the Q2007 way of doing it. Here is an example: I have some investment fees associated with an IRA. That is unusual. If I select the IRA in my accounts for a report (Cash Flow as an example) in order to include the Investment expense it will also include all the other investment income I have selected like Cap Gains, etc. That is not what I want. I can't separate it. And I don't do my taxes with Quicken so I need NT and T as separate categories. It seems Quicken just assumes everyone does that.
  • Quicken Anja
    Quicken Anja Moderator mod

    Hello All,

    This idea seems to have fallen stagnant and due to the age of the request and lack of user votes/comments, will be archived within the next 7 business days.

    If you would like to see this idea kept alive and considered for possible future implementation in Quicken, be sure to add your vote and a comment explaining how this idea would be beneficial for you.

    More information, including steps to vote and how to submit your own ideas for future product features/improvements, is also available here.

    Thank you,

    Quicken Community Support Team

    -Quicken Anja
  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    Anja, your comment seems to imply that all these comments aren't enough to cause the developers to consider implementing this idea. Could you possibly mean that? 

    In general, Quicken Mac's investment tools aren't anywhere near what they were in Q2007 or what they are now in Quicken PC. It's time to fix that.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    Steve29 said:
    Anja, your comment seems to imply that all these comments aren't enough to cause the developers to consider implementing this idea. Could you possibly mean that? 
    @Steve29 I'm not speaking for Anja, but I can explain what it means when one of the moderators posts that an Idea thread has gone stagnant. 

    Your original post here was in February 2020, two years ago, and in that time, this Idea thread has garnered only three votes. Additionally, there had been no additional posts in the past 15 months. That indicates that the request did not gain much traction with Quicken Mac users. Ones that draw a lot of votes and comments are periodically presented to the developers for consideration; ones that do not are eventually removed (archived). Part of the reason for that is to make it easier for users of this site to review the existing Idea threads, and it's also due to the program changing over time and some issues not being the same as when a post was first created. In any case, with a post like this, the moderators are basically trolling to see if more users jump onboard or not; their post moves this to the top of the website so more people will likely see it. In some cases, this revitalizes a topic and draws more comments and votes, while in other cases, there's no activity and it gets faded away.

    ----

    Going back to your original post here, it's still not clear to me what you're seeking that you're not getting in current Quicken Mac. If I understand correctly, your complaint centered on Quicken not having different categories for taxable and non-taxable investment income as Quicken 2007 did. But Quicken Mac separates non-taxable income two ways: (1) it automatically counts income in retirement accounts as non-taxable income, and (2) individual securities can be marked as non-taxable, as might be the case for a tax-free bond fund held in a taxable account).

    You also wrote that if you want to see taxable and non-taxable income separately, "you have to export an Excel file, sort it properly and add everything up yourself. What a waste of time." But that's not the case. You can create a report for investment income categories, and have one report selecting retirement accounts and another report selecting all other accounts. While that might require two pages instead of one, it doesn't require manipulation in a spreadsheet to get the details you're seeking. 

    If I'm not understanding correctly what you're finding difficult or impossible to do, perhaps it would be beneficial to create a new Idea post focusing specifically on what you want but can't get in a report of Quicken Mac investment income. (Personally, I don't care too much about how much my retirement accounts generate in dividends versus capital gains, or overall, because all the income within the retirement accounts isn't taxable income; what I am focused on is the performance of the securities in those accounts, and that's something I get from the Portfolio view rather than an income report.)

    In general, it's helpful in terms of attracting votes for Ideas and for getting the developers to consider and implement them if they focus on single, tangible features. When you write "Quicken Mac's investment tools aren't anywhere near what they were in Q2007" that's a true statement — but it isn't easily actionable. It would be more helpful to come up with 2 or 3 or 5 specific things which are lacking in Quicken Mac and post them as independent ideas (assuming there aren't already Idea posts for those features). 
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    Jacobs -- thanks for that, I much appreciate your long and thoughtful reply. I understand about making feature requests specific and limited, and I've done that in various places. When I began subscribing to the new Quicken Mac I was under the impression that Quicken would be improving investment tracking features, adding basic stuff like: ROI over a longer period than 5 years, showing amount invested (as well as Cost Basis), etc. But I've seen almost no change in investment tracking. So I'm a bit frustrated. 

    Regarding your suggestions -- that's great and I learned some things, thanks. But I tried it just now and am having no luck. All my dividends are reinvested and are entered as Type: Reinvest Dividend. There's a Description/Category column but not a category the way you would have one in a credit card account.

    If I make a custom transaction report and ask for a total of •Div Income, I get nada, an empty report. I assume I'm doing something wrong. Any suggestions?

    Thanks again.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    If you have a transaction which is Type=Reinvest Dividend, then Quicken will display the amount of that dividend if you do a category report for income. I just tested it to make sure I wasn't imagining this. :)

    I created a report New > Summary > Row=Category, Column=Time, Interval=None, and I set the date range to just today. I clicked on the Accounts tab, clicked Selected Accounts, clicked Clear All, and then clicked on the Retirement sub-account. The report shows, correctly, "There were no transactions for the filter settings." Leaving the report window open, I now I entered a Reinvest Dividend transaction, dated today, for one of my securities: $1,200 at $120/share = 10 shares. As soon as I save that transaction, my report window shows the $1,200 under the category Income > Investments > Dividend Income. Just as expected, and correct.

    The thing to understand is that you never see a transaction categorized as "Dividend Income" in your register. But Quicken knows how to map the investment transaction to the proper category, so the report is correct.

    By the way, those categories that begin with a bullet, like •Div Income, are imported categories from Quicken 2007. And Quicken Mac does not use them. I still have them in my Categories list. I think it's safe to discard them all, but I've never taken the time to make a copy of my file and do a before and after test to make sure nothing is messed up by removing them. 
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    Great. Thanks again for that. Just tried it, and I see my mistake (those pesky "•..." categories). But here's the problem: I have IRAs, which are tax free. And I have municipal bond funds in taxable accounts -- those funds are tax free, too.

    If I choose to see the category "Dividend Income Tax Free," I only get a total for the munis, even though my retirement accounts are selected in the report. I don't see where Quicken understands that income in an IRA is tax free. I could change the information on all the funds in those accounts to make them tax free, but some of those funds also exist in taxable accounts. Any thoughts? 
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    Steve29 said:
    Great. Thanks again for that. Just tried it, and I see my mistake (those pesky "•..." categories). But here's the problem: I have IRAs, which are tax free. And I have municipal bond funds in taxable accounts -- those funds are tax free, too.

    If I choose to see the category "Dividend Income Tax Free," I only get a total for the munis, even though my retirement accounts are selected in the report. I don't see where Quicken understands that income in an IRA is tax free. I could change the information on all the funds in those accounts to make them tax free, but some of those funds also exist in taxable accounts. Any thoughts? 
    Quicken knows that all income in a retirement fund is tax-free. So it doesn't use the separate category for Dividend Income Tax Free for retirement accounts. That category is used specifically for tax-free securities in taxable accounts, like your muni bond funds. 

    So if you do a Category Summary report for your taxable accounts, which is where I assume you have your muni bond funds, you will see two rows: Dividend Income and Dividend Income Tax-Free.



    As mentioned above, for a Category to Transaction report like this, you'd have to do two separate reports, one for the taxable account and one for the retirement accounts, if you want to break out your taxable and tax-free income. Or you can use the Tax Schedule report, which will by default omit income in your retirement accounts, and just lists the taxable amounts. (The Tax Schedule report counts short-term capital gains with dividends, because both are taxes as ordinary income; the Category Summary report lists them separately.) 
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    Okay, great. First, I identify the muni bond funds as "this security is tax exempt" in the securities list. Then I make two Summary reports: first for the non-IRAs, showing the categories "Dividend Income" and "Dividend Income Tax Free". Then, a second report for the IRAs showing "Dividend Income" but knowing that it's by definition tax free.

    That worked, and I really appreciate your help with this. Thanks. 

    For what it's worth, I don't think it was particularly intuitive, or all that easy, but I can certainly do it. (What I wanted, of course, was a report combining all this.)
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    Making it work in an intuitive way is above my pay grade here.  ;)  But I'm glad you were able to get the reporting you wanted, even though the path to get there wasn't particularly clear!
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Steve29
    Steve29 Member ✭✭✭
    Understood. Thanks again for all the help. Much appreciated.