Apple Card Transactions Now Export with .ofx Format. However...

Dave Kar

Good news is that we can now export Apple Card transactions via wallet app in OFX format for Quicken import. However:

When I do it, I get the "Unable to read selected Web Connect file. Please contact your financial institution." error.

Am I doing something wrong or do we have to wait for a Quicken Mac update?

Thanks for any info!

jacobs

OFX format is, unfortunately, not compatible with Quicken. Customers need to pressure Apple to add downloads in QFX format (which requires them signing up with Quicken/Intuit). There is no update from Quicken to wait for; Apple needs to support Quicken's format (as thousands of other financial institutions have for a long time).

Dave Kar

Thanks @jacobs. When using file/import, Quicken does list .OFX as a valid format for import. The icon for the .OFX file on the Mac shows the Quicken logo, and right clicking shows Quicken app under "open with".

I'm wondering if these imports would work with Quicken Windows. That would be bizarre, I know. Another possibility is the .OFX files aren't compatible with Quicken. Again, a bit odd as it is supposed to be a standardized format.

In any case, it would be great if someone here with the Apple Card can verify my result, and/or if the use MINT to see if that works.

BryanGarmon

I just chatted with Quicken Tech Support and they commented that Apple is currently not on the list of supported banks for their files to work with Quicken neither in CSV or OFX format. I was also told Quicken tech support doesn't help with data imports beyond pointing you to the File Menu and choosing Import.

Here's my experience with exporting from Apple Wallet:

I tried exporting from Apple wallet to CSV and then into Quicken but the format Apple is using is not the CSV format Quicken expects so things just don't work. I imported $65 worth of transactions via CSV and Quicken told me I owed Apple $3 million. So I decided to try and edit the CSV.

After a few hours of trial and error with the Apple CSV file, starting with the original Apple file:

Change "Transaction Date" to Date,
Delete "Clearing Date" Column,
Delete Description,
Change "Merchant" to "Payee",
Delete "Type" column,
Change "Amount (USD)" to Amount.

At that point Quicken for Mac can at least import the data. What still failed though is that for some reason the balance in Quicken was always several million. It made no sense. I tried with Microsoft Excel, I tried with Numbers, then I tried a text file editor and simply can not find why Quicken imports $65 of stuff and thinks I owe $3 million. So I gave up on that.

Then today I saw Apple allowed OFX so I figured that would work. Nope - same error as Dave Kar is reporting. Quicken tech support via chat told me to resolve this I would have to call Apple and work with them on why their data format is incompatible.

So it's been nothing but frustration on my end. I don't use my Apple Card for all that much so at this point I'm just manually entering in transactions every few weeks. It's a pain and I curse Quicken and Apple each time I have to bother with this, but in the end having the data along with the rest of my finances helps me.

Bo15

Yep OFX unable to read file. Why is this such a hard thing to implement. C'mon Apple, Quicken!

Dave Kar

> @BryanGarmon said:
> I just chatted with Quicken Tech Support and they commented that Apple is currently not on the list of supported banks for their files to work with Quicken neither in CSV or OFX format. I was also told Quicken tech support doesn't help with data imports beyond pointing you to the File Menu and choosing Import.
>
> Here's my experience with exporting from Apple Wallet:
>
> I tried exporting from Apple wallet to CSV and then into Quicken but the format Apple is using is not the CSV format Quicken expects so things just don't work. I imported $65 worth of transactions via CSV and Quicken told me I owed Apple $3 million. So I decided to try and edit the CSV.
>
> After a few hours of trial and error with the Apple CSV file, starting with the original Apple file:
>
> Change "Transaction Date" to Date,
> Delete "Clearing Date" Column,
> Delete Description,
> Change "Merchant" to "Payee",
> Delete "Type" column,
> Change "Amount (USD)" to Amount.
>
> At that point Quicken for Mac can at least import the data. What still failed though is that for some reason the balance in Quicken was always several million. It made no sense. I tried with Microsoft Excel, I tried with Numbers, then I tried a text file editor and simply can not find why Quicken imports $65 of stuff and thinks I owe $3 million. So I gave up on that.
>
> Then today I saw Apple allowed OFX so I figured that would work. Nope - same error as Dave Kar is reporting. Quicken tech support via chat told me to resolve this I would have to call Apple and work with them on why their data format is incompatible.
>
> So it's been nothing but frustration on my end. I don't use my Apple Card for all that much so at this point I'm just manually entering in transactions every few weeks. It's a pain and I curse Quicken and Apple each time I have to bother with this, but in the end having the data along with the rest of my finances helps me.

Thanks. Did you try using a conversation app to convert the .CSV to .OFX? I'd be surprised if that worked, buy you never know.

I had assumed that both .CSV and .OFX were standardized formats. I guess not. Probably the only solution is for Apple to export to .QFX, but that would require Intuit and Apple working on a solution to the benefit of both of their users. We can dream...

JustMeHere

Try typing in "CSV to QFX" and "OFX to QFX" in Google.

jacobs

Dave Kar said:

When using file/import, Quicken does list .OFX as a valid format for import. The icon for the .OFX file on the Mac shows the Quicken logo, and right clicking shows Quicken app under "open with".

That doesn't mean Quicken works with OFX. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't. macOS might equate the two in a file open dialog box, but Quicken doesn't work with OFX. It's been that way for more than a decade.

The issue here is Apple; they need to decide to support Quicken users. They didn't initially support downloading at all when the card launched. Recently, they added some downloading formats. The question is whether they're going to continue to expand that or not, and only Apple can answer that. Quicken is not likely to abandon their longstanding systems -- systems used by some 14,000 financial institutions -- just because Apple launched a credit card. Don't curse Quicken Intuit does not need to "work with Apple" -- Apple merely needs to sign on with Intuit (and I don't believe there's a cost to Apple if they're just going to support file downloads) and provide QFX downloads. And pressure from Apple Card customers can influence Apple's direction.

Dave Kar

> @jacobs said:
> (Quote)
> That doesn't mean Quicken works with OFX. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't. macOS might equate the two in a file open dialog box, but Quicken doesn't work with OFX. It's been that way for more than a decade.
>
> The issue here is Apple; they need to decide to support Quicken users. They didn't initially support downloading at all when the card launched. Recently, they added some downloading formats. The question is whether they're going to continue to expand that or not, and only Apple can answer that. Quicken is not likely to abandon their longstanding systems -- systems used by some 14,000 financial institutions -- just because Apple launched a credit card. Don't curse Quicken Intuit does not need to "work with Apple" -- Apple merely needs to sign on with Intuit (and I don't believe there's a cost to Apple if they're just going to support file downloads) and provide QFX downloads. And pressure from Apple Card customers can influence Apple's direction.

We don't have the info to decide who needs to do what to make imports work. Apple initially didn't allow export because of their privacy policies. Perhaps Intuit wasn't willing to stipulate certain parts of those policies. It's hard to fault either for this. Also, since .QFX is a Quicken format, it's a possibility they require royalties feels. It's also quite possible that Intuit, for strategic reasons, is unwilling to work with Apple. Or vice versa.

All speculation, but hot beyond the realm of possibilities.

JustMeHere

There is a lot of moving parts and frankly the technical parts are the least of the problems. Yes OFX is a standard, that doesn't mean that any given program or company has to support it for various reasons.

In fact Quicken Essentials for Mac supported it and so did first couple of release of Quicken Mac (new rewrite started from Quicken Essentials for Mac code).

But that support was left in more to appease the very limited user base than anything else. Just like support for Quicken 2007 Mac had been left open for so long.

That is in fact most likely why .ofx format is registered as an import source for the current Quicken Mac versions. Once Quicken Mac had what Quicken Inc considered enough features they went back to the policies of only supporting QFX and having limited support unlike Quicken 2007 Mac that support long past what it would have normally had if they hadn't tried to do the "total rewrite", which is what Quicken Essentials for Mac was.

And make no mistake Intuit's business model make money off of the "QFX format/protocol". And Quicken Inc doesn't have the resources to do that kind of support they contract with Intuit, so they have to play by Intuit's rules.

BTW QFX is just minor variation of OFX. Converting between the two is trivial. This isn't a technical problem.

jacobs

Dave Kar said:

We don't have the info to decide who needs to do what to make imports work. Apple initially didn't allow export because of their privacy policies. Perhaps Intuit wasn't willing to stipulate certain parts of those policies. It's hard to fault either for this. Also, since .QFX is a Quicken format, it's a possibility they require royalties feels. It's also quite possible that Intuit, for strategic reasons, is unwilling to work with Apple. Or vice versa.

All speculation, but hot beyond the realm of possibilities.

There's no need to speculate about any of this. You can choose to believe what you want, but facts are what they are. Apple didn't initially support exports apparently because they hadn't developed the code to do it, or because they wanted to see if customers demanded it. Now they've added it -- and no privacy policy changed between the launch of the card and the start of them allowing downloads last month.

Quicken has an established approach they use with 14,000+ financial institutions, a system that goes back more than a decade. Not every bank, credit union, and financial institution supports Quicken. Apple can support it or not; it's their choice.

The lowest-level of supporting Quicken -- QFX file imports -- does not require royalties from financial institutions. But the financial institution does need to sign on with Intuit. (I've never seen the agreement, but I've been told it provides, among other things, a point of contact when the companies need to contact each other to resolve technical problems which inevitably arise.)

JustMeHere said:

There is a lot of moving parts

Actually, not. Apple either decides to support Quicken or not. If yes, all they need to do is (a) sign on with Intuit and (b) provide downloads in QFX format. Period.

JustMeHere said:

Yes OFX is a standard, that doesn't mean that any given program or company has to support it for various reasons. In fact Quicken Essentials for Mac supported it and so did first couple of release of Quicken Mac (new rewrite started from Quicken Essentials for Mac code).

I agree that nothing forces any program or company to support any standard. Quicken forced the issue many, many years ago (it was part of Intuit at the time), and a large number of financial institutions signed on. Not all did. Customers play a big part. We've seen many times where customers lobby their financial institutions to support Quicken and banks make changes to satisfy their customers. 

I don't believe it's correct that the modern Quicken Mac ever supported OFX imports for transactions. If you're referring to the "File > Import > Bank or Brokerage File (OFX, QFX)" -- that exists in Quicken 2015 through the current Quicken 2020, but it is for importing securities holdings, not transactions.

JustMeHere said:

And make no mistake Intuit's business model make money off of the "QFX format/protocol". And Quicken Inc doesn't have the resources to do that kind of support they contract with Intuit, so they have to play by Intuit's rules.

BTW QFX is just minor variation of OFX. Converting between the two is trivial. This isn't a technical problem.

True… and not true. Yes, Intuit's business model it to make money from their connectivity services. Financial institutions do pay for Direct Connect and some (many?) pay for Quicken Connect (aggregation connectivity). But just registering to have a registered Intuit Bank Identifier number (INTU.BID) to allow downloaded files to be imported into Quicken does not require a fee payment, according to a Quicken representative. Any yes, QFX is just an Intuit proprietary minor tweak of the open OFX standard to control only working with registered financial institutions; it's not a technical issue.

I'm going to bow out of this discussion now, because I know I'm repeating things I've written previously. I'm only trying to provide information so fellow Quicken users are better informed about these issues. 

JustMeHere

Just a note "by a lot of moving parts" what I was referring to is that there is multiple "players" from Apple, to Intuit, to the customers, to Quicken Inc, which all have their own priorities, motivations, and such for what they want and will do and won't do.

One (the customer) might think that the best way forward is to post here and complain to Quicken Inc. Whereas in fact Quicken Inc can really only "talk to Intuit", it is highly doubtful that Intuit is going to change. Why should they?
I will take your word for it that Intuit isn't charging anymore of QFX downloads, but even if they were, why should they change?

Apple is clearly making money off of the people that choose use their cards, and they can clearly afford to pay some if they think that the customers that use Quicken and their card are worth it.

I totally agree, it is Apple the customers have to convince they are worth it to do what it takes to provide this support.

BTW on the idea that Apple's motivation for not providing OFX/QFX is "privacy concerns". In my opinion that would only be true if the people at Apple don't have a clue at what they are talking about.

Whether you are talking about OFX, QFX, CSV, QIF, ... they are just text files. Intuit/Quicken Inc are not "storing" them. Yes you are importing them into Quicken, just as you might import the CSV file into Excel, but it isn't Apple's concern how you use your data.

Now if you were talking about Quicken Connect/Express Web Connect that is a different story. BTW do you notice I didn't include Direct Connect?

Direct Connect is just how it sounds after where to connect is determined, Direct Connect is between your Quicken program and the financial institution (Apple or whoever really supplies the service) neither Intuit or Quicken Inc "see that data stream". Of course I guess Apple might be concerned that Quicken (the program) is a "virus" and it sending your information off to places it shouldn't. But that isn't really in the ballpark of "privacy concerns".

JustMeHere

@jacobs
P.S. I looked it up and you are right (faulty memory on my part). The ability to import OFX files was dropped in a later version of Quicken Essentials for Mac, not in the "new" Quicken Mac.

smayer97

jacobs said:

Dave Kar said:

When using file/import, Quicken does list .OFX as a valid format for import. The icon for the .OFX file on the Mac shows the Quicken logo, and right clicking shows Quicken app under "open with".

That doesn't mean Quicken works with OFX. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't. macOS might equate the two in a file open dialog box, but Quicken doesn't work with OFX. It's been that way for more than a decade.

JustMeHere said:

@jacobs
P.S. I looked it up and you are right (faulty memory on my part). The ability to import OFX files was dropped in a later version of Quicken Essentials for Mac, not in the "new" Quicken Mac.

That's right...OFX support was removed in moving from QEM to new QMac...but that was not more than a decade ago; only about 4-5 yrs ago.

jacobs

Although these historical footnotes aren't relevant to the current issue of Apple Card functionality with Quicken 2020, for clarity: my "more than a decade" timeframe refers to Quicken's creation of QFX as their standard for importing data. Quicken Essentials was initially developed in 2007-2009 (it was released in early 2010), so OFX was still in use as it was developed. Although Essentials was still sold for a few years, it received only minimal upgrades and was essentially a dead product until the new Quicken Mac came along in 2014; it's not surprising they didn't devote resources to revamping import functionality to exclude OFX. 

JustMeHere

> @jacobs said:
> Although these historical footnotes aren't relevant to the current issue of Apple Card functionality with Quicken 2020, for clarity: my "more than a decade" timeframe refers to Quicken's creation of QFX as their standard for importing data. Quicken Essentials was initially developed in 2007-2009 (it was released in early 2010), so OFX was still in use as it was developed. Although Essentials was still sold for a few years, it received only minimal upgrades and was essentially a dead product until the new Quicken Mac came along in 2014; it's not surprising they didn't devote resources to revamping import functionality to exclude OFX. 

The history is actually slightly different. "In the beginning..."

"Microsoft, Intuit and CheckFree announced the OFX standard on 16 January 1997. The first OFX specification, version 1.0, was released on 14 February 1997" (from Wikipedia).

Intuit immediately created the QFX format. OFX was never used in Quicken at least not until Quicken Essentials for Mac (never in Windows or prior/future versions of Mac). They did this so that they could charge for the financial institutions for the services/bring customers to them.

Microsoft on the other hand didn't, and eventually got out of this market because they didn't feel it was profitable. Note part of their decision to not charge is because Quicken was already the leader in this market and they were trying to break into it. They were the underdog. And also typical Microsoft they tried to buy out Intuit, but the government blocked that.

So why did Quicken Essentials for Mac support OFX?
My belief is it stems from two reasons. One is that the group creating it was small and quite "cutoff" from the main Quicken development (rogue Mac developers) and implementing either OFX or QFX is basically the same task.

That's how it got in, but why didn't Intuit "kill it" once they realized it had been introduced?
My belief is that because Quicken Essentials for Mac was so light on features and the Quicken Mac (2007) community refused to switch to it, they basically just let it be. That is until they later came back and put lots of resources into the new Quicken Mac, and then it was back to the old policies.

Ramias

What is the point of OFX export for the Apple Card if it doesn't work on Quicken for Mac?

Lame.

And funny we're all excited about export for Quicken. If this card had online downloads like... every other credit card in my wallet, I'd use it everywhere.

jacobs

Ramias said:

What is the point of OFX export for the Apple Card if it doesn't work on Quicken for Mac? Lame.

The point is that it may be useful for users of other software! Quicken isn't the only personal finance software.

As pertains to Quicken, and Quicken Mac specifically, the relevance is that Apple has allowed and built the infrastructure for users to download transactions. No, the OFX downloads don't work with Quicken, but it's a big step for Apple to open up in this way.

The unanswered question is whether Apple plans to add QFX in order to serve its Quicken-using customers. Apple Card users should be bugging Apple to add this functionality. There's nothing Quicken can do until Apple signals it's ready to sign on the the Intuit QFX ecosystem.

walt kieta

I solved my problem with Apple Card, I found a product that converts OFX files to QFX files and it works fine for me.

Dave Kar

> @walt kieta said:
> I solved my problem with Apple Card, I found a product that converts OFX files to QFX files and it works fine for me.

Mind giving us the link please?

LB522

Let's think about it... Quicken, with about a million paying users, or Apple with more than 300 million iPhones and soon Apple Card around the world. Who do you think needs to code to who?

BTW, OFX stands for "Open Financial Exchange". QFX is proprietary. Again, which do you think is the better standard for Apple to support?

LB522

BTW, as noted, there are payware utilities that convert OFX to QFX for sale, between $15 - $60. These are opportunistic programmers.

(Removed-Speculation/Inaccurate) 

Brad1

Both Quicken and Apple should be ashamed of themselves.

Brad1

I posted a link but it got removed.  Probably because it said the word " h a c k ", explaining how you could modify a QFX file to look like it's coming from a bank that supports (e.g. pays for the privilege) Quicken for Mac.

jacobs

Brad said:

Both Quicken and Apple should be ashamed of themselves.

Quicken has been using the same QFX format for more than a decade. More than 14,000 financial institutions support Quicken downloads. But because Apple, who launched their credit card just a few months ago, hasn't yet created a way to download QFX files, why should Quicken be ashamed? Why shouldn't Apple Card customers expect and pressure Apple to offer QFX downloads like some many other credit card providers and banks do?

LB522 said:

Quicken engineers could write this converter in a matter of days. This is just one software company not playing nice with compatibility. Its what they do, to the detriment of customers.

For better or worse, Quicken -- at that time, Intuit -- created the QFX variant of OFX more than a decade ago. They could have chosen to use OFX, but didn't. As I understand it, there are several layers of reasons for them wanting to have financial institutions signed up. The simplest is that the agreement gives them a technical point of contact within each financial institution when users report problems. (There are invariably problems and bug which crop up. Users blame Quicken, whether or not it's anything in their control. It's not unreasonable that they want to have financial institutions at least give them direct access to the right tech people at the bank should they need to reach out.)

For file important, my understanding is that there is no fee charged by Quicken or Intuit, but for higher-level connectivity, Intuit charges financial institutions a fee to cover the costs of providing servers and tech staff to keep up with changes and problems. You can blast Intuit for this, but the reality is that if they didn't charge financial institutions a fee, they'd be charging end users more to power those services. When you say Quicken does this to the detriment of customers, I wonder how many customers would be happy if the cost of Quicken to consumers were higher if Quicken had to pay Intuit rather than the banks paying Intuit.

Brad1

In my opinion Quicken is equally to blame for attempting to force a proprietary "standard" instead of implementing an Open standard like OFX. Furthermore Quicken has a history of making banks pay for the privilege of being "Quicken compatible." Quicken should be glad anyone is still using their product, especially Mac users, and should therefore accommodate using their software with many types of financial accounts using an open standard. Apple for their part stupidly thought they could make everyone just use their App and stop caring about managing budgets using other 3rd party software. The whole issue is about standards and how neither of these money-grubbing corporations wants to play nice.

Brad1

By the way I've never received an ounce of "help" from either Quicken or a bank when something doesn't work regarding transaction importing. Typically I am forced to just wait for a fix, or if I'm lucky find another customer in the forums who has already figured it out. Amazon's Prime credit card from Syncrony Bank had a similar problem a few years ago, eventually they fixed it so that the imported transactions actually had details listed, rather than just line after line of "Amazon". It feels like they don't even test this stuff. And now we are paying Quicken a subscription to be guinea pigs.

jacobs

Brad said:

In my opinion Quicken is equally to blame for attempting to force a proprietary "standard" instead of implementing an Open standard like OFX. Furthermore Quicken has a history of making banks pay for the privilege of being "Quicken compatible."

I was merely noting that Quicken has used this file format for more than a decade. More than 14,000 financial institutions support Quicken. t's not something new, and you're not a guinea pig. And it's also about support, not just about money. (In fact, for just uploading a downloaded QFX file into Quicken, there is no fee to financial institutions to participate; they just need to sign up and have a technical point of contact for Intuit when problems come up.)

So if you want to re-argue decisions that were made eons ago, knock yourself out -- I just don't think it's likely to have an ounce of impact. On the other hand, Apple has just introduced transaction downloads in the past month, so some directed customer demand seems much more likely to bring about the desired change.

Quicken_Tyka

Hello all,

This thread has become argumentative and is now being closed.

At this time, Apple is not a participating financial institution.

If you want Quicken to be supported you will need to contact. Apple directly, and tell them you'd like to download your accounts into Quicken.

You can also enter transactions manually. For more information on adding a manual account, click here.

Thank you,

-Quicken Tyka