Quicken Community is moving to Single Sign On! Starting 1/22/21, you'll sign in to the community with your Quicken ID. For more information: http://bit.ly/CommunitySSO

Subscription only service

jblowitski
jblowitski Member ✭✭
edited February 2020 in Before you Buy
I currently use Quicken 2017 for my Mac and have not switched to the Quicken subscription service because I am Long Term disability at an early age and on a tight budget. I see that you are cancelling the ability to use Quicken 2017 for Mac and it appears making individuals switch to a subscription service if they want to use Quicken. Will there be a one-time purchase product available or will it only now be a subscription service software?

Update: So does this mean if a bank currently has the option to download transactions from their website as a qfx file I will no longer be able to do that? Or I still can, but I will no longer be able to open a qfx file with Quicken 2017 for Mac?

Update Two: Now that Quicken has become a yearly subscription software are people satisfied with the service you get for the price or have you found better alternative programs for Mac, or gone back to pen and paper :-) ???
Thank you,
Jim

Best Answer

Answers

  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi Jim,

    Going forward there will only be the subscription service.  Here's some additional information on it.

    https://www.quicken.com/support/quicken-discontinuation-policy

    Good luck!

    Frankx


    Quicken H&B-Subscription - Ver. R29.20 - Build 27.1.29.20  - Windows 10 Home - Ver. 2004
                                             - - - - Quicken User since 1984 - - - 
      -  If you find this reply helpful, please click "Helpful" (below), so others will know! Thank you.  -
  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    And, QM2017 is NOT being cancelled.  Just the ability to download, the ability to receive program updates and the ability to receive support from Q itself (but not this forum) is being ended.
    SO, you'll need to input everything manually, and rely upon this forum for support ... but otherwise everything will work as is for as long as your Operating System supports QMac
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • zewkini
    zewkini Member
    I don't think it's fair to force people onto a subscription service if they don't want it. Cutting off download capability from current unsubscribed users for no apparent reason, other than getting a reliable revenue stream, is going to hack a lot of people off. Why can't we just pay for the software like before? Give it a 3-5 year lifecycle and let your customers decide whether they wish to continue with buying a new software package or going to a subscription. This also burdens your spouse with unwinding your finances should something happen to you. We’re not instinctively wired to remember and cancel the things we’re not using anymore. Just my $.02
  • jblowitski
    jblowitski Member ✭✭
    Does this mean if a bank currently has the option to download transactions from their website as a qfx file I will no longer be able to do that? Or I still can, but I will no longer be able to open a qfx file with Quicken 2017 for Mac?
  • JustMeHere
    JustMeHere Member ✭✭✭✭
    Does this mean if a bank currently has the option to download transactions from their website as a qfx file I will no longer be able to do that? Or I still can, but I will no longer be able to open a qfx file with Quicken 2017 for Mac?
    You will no longer be able to import a QFX file into Quicken after the support for your version of Quicken stops.  This is considered one of the "online services".
    Using Quicken Subscription Premier (and have a copy of Starter to test things on)
  • JustMeHere
    JustMeHere Member ✭✭✭✭
    @zewkini Just so you know, basically Quicken has always been "you pay for the program, and get the online services for a certain length of time".

    In the past the "online services" were provided for about 3 years, included in the cost of the software.  You had to buy Quicken again if you wanted to continue having the online services.  With the "Subscription" version of Quicken the length has changed from 12 month to 27 months depending on how you buy the subscription, and the program updates are included.

    And for Quicken Inc it make no sense for them to keep paying the third parties the provide these services (Intuit provides the Direct Connect, Express Web Connect, Quicken Connect, and dealing with the financial institutions for support for the QFX files) forever for you, if they aren't going to keep getting revenue from you.
    Using Quicken Subscription Premier (and have a copy of Starter to test things on)
  • jblowitski
    jblowitski Member ✭✭
    Now that Quicken has become a yearly subscription software are people satisfied with the service you get for the price or have you found better alternative programs for Mac, or gone back to pen and paper :-) ???
  • zewkini
    zewkini Member
    I will add to my earlier comment by saying what Quicken is doing here is bad form. Deliberately crippling one of the most desirable features of its software without a solid technical reason being put forth proves it. I paid for this feature and I expect to work and be supported until some system change, on my end or theirs, would actually prevent it from working (not deliberately kicking people off to get a revenue stream). I suspected subscription service was going to be required when my account download suddenly stopped working intermittently for no apparent reason. Then I got the email about subscriptions basically saying I will have crippleware at a certain point. Bad move Quicken.
  • JustMeHere
    JustMeHere Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    zewkini said:
    Deliberately crippling one of the most desirable features of its software without a solid technical reason being put forth proves it. I paid for this feature and I expect to work and be supported until some system change, on my end or theirs, would actually prevent it from working (not deliberately kicking people off to get a revenue stream).
    @zewkini
    There isn't a technical reason, but there certainly is a business reason.  And that reason is that they have ongoing costs for these services, and you have NOT paid for them.

    When you bought your last version of Quicken it was for a program (Quicken) and for 3 years of online service.  No business would sell you a lifetime license for downloading your transactions for what you paid for Quicken.

    So yes it all about a revenue stream, the one that pays for their expenses and the one that give them a profit so that they have an incentive to keep providing this service and not just go out of business and let you find another way to do it.
    Using Quicken Subscription Premier (and have a copy of Starter to test things on)
  • JustMeHere
    JustMeHere Member ✭✭✭✭
    BTW I personally welcome the "subscription".  Quicken has been a subscription service for at least 15 years.  But because people don't read the terms of the agreements they sign every year people complain about how Quicken is robbing them because their service contract has now expired.

    Well now it is almost impossible for people to claim they have not been informed.  It is all over the place as they purchase Quicken.

    And BTW it really does actually help the development of the product.  Now they can work on one release and not be pulled back into fixing things in last two releases.

    Will this really pan out as a much better Quicken?

    I don't really know, but I do know that they have been putting out releases on a much quicker bases with less "big bang" changes that use to come from each "yearly release".
    Using Quicken Subscription Premier (and have a copy of Starter to test things on)
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    BTW I personally welcome the "subscription".  Quicken has been a subscription service for at least 15 years.  But because people don't read the terms of the agreements they sign every year people...
    ...don't know realize it or forget (because the service included lasted for up to 3.5yrs from the original release date).
    That is exactly the crux of the issue. So, the main thing that has changed, other than making the "subscription" to download services more prominent, is the time frame for the subscription is now about 1-2 years based on your purchased membership.

    Have Questions? Check out these FAQs (links now fixed):COMPLETE list of Product Ideas - Quicken for Mac to VOTE on

    Object to Quicken's business model, using up 25% of your screen?
    Add your vote here:
    Quicken should eliminate the LARGE Ad space when a subscription expires

    (
    Canadian user since '92, STILL using QM2007)


  • JustMeHere
    JustMeHere Member ✭✭✭✭
    smayer97 said:
    ...don't know realize it or forget (because the service included lasted for up to 3.5yrs from the original release date).
    That is exactly the crux of the issue.


    Yes, I certainly do know how long the service "contract" was for.

    And is it really the "crux of the issue"?

    I think not.  I think the main crux of the problem is "transparency".
    I pay my gas & electric monthly.
    I pay my water every two months.
    I pay my auto insurance every 6 months.

    Length of the "service contract" is seldom the problem.

    Not knowing that you have a contract for a given amount of time IS the problem.

    Even the "terms (cost)" of those services are "secondary" to the "transparency".

    And BTW the old 3.5 years from release wasn't even "fair" system in my book.
    Sure I could by Quicken 2007 in October of 2006 and have it for 3.5 years, but if I started using it in October I had to put up with "big bang one year release problems" until about the start on the next year.  And that happened year after year.  Every long term Quicken user knew (or found out the hard way) not to use Quicken when it first came out.

    So there goes the first 1/2 year.  Then say you are more cautious, but still want to stay with the new releases.  So maybe you decide to wait 8 months.  You now have 3.5 - 8 of online services even though you might pay the same as someone that started earlier.  And heaven forbid you buy Quicken off of the EBay just before the online services for that release are cut off.

    With the subscription at least you know upfront exactly how long your online services are going to last, and that they aren't "part of the program".
    Using Quicken Subscription Premier (and have a copy of Starter to test things on)
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    I did not mean to seem like I was arguing with you.

    Yes transparency was part of the issue coupled with the fact that with the 3.5 yrs service, most people actually re-purchased long before that so never encountered the service stopping and so never realized there was a time limit (because who bothers to read those never-ending EULAs?). ;) Now, with the service changing to subscription AND the time frame being reduced, it comes as a shock.

    That said, in all fairness, QMac is VERY different. The "subscription" model was really only introduced with the QM2015 version and with the previous 3.5 yr model Mac users would only start encountering this service limit in Apr 2018. And with many QM2007 users (which never had its online functionality expire) only switching more recently, the subscription model is a relatively new experience. So to many Mac users, this is all new.

    Have Questions? Check out these FAQs (links now fixed):COMPLETE list of Product Ideas - Quicken for Mac to VOTE on

    Object to Quicken's business model, using up 25% of your screen?
    Add your vote here:
    Quicken should eliminate the LARGE Ad space when a subscription expires

    (
    Canadian user since '92, STILL using QM2007)


  • JustMeHere
    JustMeHere Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, the Mac history is very different.  Mostly because Intuit way under estimated what would take to put out a "start from scratch" version and so caught themselves in a situation where they couldn't "charge their customers".

    In fact that mistake was so bad that if all the company had was Quicken Mac, it probably wouldn't be around right now.

    They couldn't sell Quicken Essentials, and Quicken 2007 wasn't giving them any money any more, but people were still being given online services that were costing Intuit every month.  That must have made the big wigs and number crunchers really happy!
    Using Quicken Subscription Premier (and have a copy of Starter to test things on)
  • jblowitski
    jblowitski Member ✭✭
    edited February 2020
    As a someone with experience as a programer and then business development leadership for a large company (but in a different business) I am curious?

    First is Intuit changing the format of a qfx file and that is how they are making my Quicken2017 for Mac unable to import transactions from my Bank that I received by manually downloading the qfx file from my bank's website? I am also confused from some comments on this thread regarding costs to Intuit/Quicken. Second, does Intuit have to pay a bank/financial institution to provide the ability for the bank to provide me my transactions in a qfx file even if I can only manually download the qfx file from the bank's website and then manually import it into the Quicken software? I would think since there are more banks around (at least to my knowledge) than financial programs it would be the other way around and Intuit would charge a fee for banks especially since banks often advertise this ability to attract my business. Thanks, Jim.

    On a side note and I apologize to continue this argument, but the subscription service was changed because they realized there was no reason for people to upgrade to newer versions anymore. Initially, companies were doing it because they could make more money, now they are doing it to stay in business. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple and other companies are trying to figure out a way to do it with their phones. If they haven't already I am guessing they are going to try to do what the car industry did by introducing the leasing model because each time an iPhone comes out, the new capabilities really aren't utilized or required by a majority of people especially the latest iPhone unless you are trying to do professional photography and if you are you aren't using an iPone to do so (it is all about advertising the capabilities to people that don't really need them or of a necessity). :-)

    Again, since Quicken is a different software than say Microsoft Word and I say this because the data is coming from a financial institution not the user. A Word document is written and the information to create the document is provided by the user, therefore Microsoft could justify charging the user to use the Word software as a subscription service. With Intuit/Quicken, they could not charge the users of the software, but instead make their money by charing the banks' the ability to provide this service because the banks are providing the data.
    My 2 cents. :-) Jim
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    QFX has not changed. It works by Quicken calling home to confirm that the FI/Bank is registered with Intuit and that the version of Quicken is a supported version. If it is not, Quicken will not import the date.

    The costs between Quicken, Intuit & the FI/Bank is not always clear but sometimes there are costs between the FI/Bank and Intuit and Quicken, where at the very least in some cases Intuit does charge the FI/Banks for support. There certainly are costs in one way or another to some party to keep the system working. Also, it is the FIs/Banks that choose which versions and which connection types they are willing to support.

    Have Questions? Check out these FAQs (links now fixed):COMPLETE list of Product Ideas - Quicken for Mac to VOTE on

    Object to Quicken's business model, using up 25% of your screen?
    Add your vote here:
    Quicken should eliminate the LARGE Ad space when a subscription expires

    (
    Canadian user since '92, STILL using QM2007)


  • jblowitski
    jblowitski Member ✭✭
    edited February 2020
    So to provide an analogy to make sure I am understanding correctly how Intuit is shutting down the ability for me to manually download and import a qfx file provided by my bank into my Quicken 2017 for Mac. If the software was a car, every time I went to fill up my gas tank, the gas station pump would contact the car manufacturer and sure make I was on a valid lease program. If I was not and still using a car I had purchased outright when that was still an available option from the car dealer, the car manufacturer would not allow the gas station pump to provide gas to the me. In addition the car manufacturer may also be charging the gas station the ability to sell me gas if I am on a valid lease. Interesting way to force customers to go to the subscription model and in all honesty I say in very poor form especially in regard to treating existing customers of Intuit software if they are also getting income from banks. Intuit I would recommend you re-evaluate your business model for Quicken Customers.
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Not a correct analogy. Online/Download functionality is not critical to the use of the software. It would be more like the GM OnStar service or Sirius satellite service. When you first buy the vehicle you might get a period of free service. After that, you are expected to pay to continue using it.

    And as explained above, the "subscription" model has been used by Quicken on the Windows side for at least 13 years. It was only eventually introduced to QMac in 2015, simply not in name. Now they have made it more visible and changed the free period.
    Have Questions? Check out these FAQs (links now fixed):COMPLETE list of Product Ideas - Quicken for Mac to VOTE on

    Object to Quicken's business model, using up 25% of your screen?
    Add your vote here:
    Quicken should eliminate the LARGE Ad space when a subscription expires

    (
    Canadian user since '92, STILL using QM2007)


  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    I agree to the poor visibility to the "subscription" issue, especially for Mac users for many of whom it is a very new model and many have been conditioned with what was a perpetual access to online/download functionality for at least a decade. But it is what it is now.
    Have Questions? Check out these FAQs (links now fixed):COMPLETE list of Product Ideas - Quicken for Mac to VOTE on

    Object to Quicken's business model, using up 25% of your screen?
    Add your vote here:
    Quicken should eliminate the LARGE Ad space when a subscription expires

    (
    Canadian user since '92, STILL using QM2007)


  • JustMeHere
    JustMeHere Member ✭✭✭✭
    Here is my take on a few things that were just discussed.

    1) Intuit/Quicken's intent for at least 15 years, and probably back to when QFX was first standardized was to get paid for the service, and it not being built into the cost of the product for life.  Because of some bad business decisions they "relaxed" that policy because they couldn't sell the Mac product. They have never changed that policy on the Windows side.  It was definitely "hidden" and I person thought that was one BIGGEST mistakes that Intuit made with the product.  Note that Quicken Inc kept that policy it the same, but only for a short while and then "did the right thing" in my opinion to start calling it what is was a "subscription".  The only things that really have changed is the duration of the online subscription and the fact that now with the subscriptions the program is also kept up to date.  Intuit use to say that they supported that program for 3.5 years, but in truth they almost never put out patches past about the 6 month point.  Only if something forced them to do it to keep it working with the online services.  BTW even when Quicken Inc had the old licensing in place they unlike Intuit put out a lot more patches for the older versions.  And that was clearly taking away from what time they could put into the latest version.

    2) I'm going go ahead use the auto industry as an example since you did.  What is "vital" to one person is a "luxury" to another.  When Quicken was created there was no downloading, and even to this day there are people that use Quicken in purely manual mode.  This can be compared to the "does the car drive".  In the car industry it isn't uncommon to give you services for a limited time, OnStar, Sirius, auto pilot on the Tesla.
    One of the "hallmarks" of a "service" is that you have to get it from "outside".  For a car to drive it other than gas (and oil every once in a while) you are set.  To use OnStar it has to connect to that service.  In Quicken you can type in transactions without any going "outside" it.  Downloading of transactions is by its nature "outside", and as such needs to be paid for, and it would be foolish to give someone a service that has ongoing costs, that service for life for a small fixed cost.

    3) On the subject of calling importing a QFX file and "online service". Personally I think that this wrong.  Representatives of Quicken Inc has stated that there isn't any "license fee" or such on these files. There is of a charge to the financial institution for user/support of Direct Connect (one reason they dropping it), and even though they don't charge the financial institution for Express Web Connect (in Mac speak Quicken Connect) it is certainly a very expense service where they are trying to download from non standardized websites.  And Quicken Inc is paying Intuit for both of these services.  But it isn't my decision that the end user still has to maintain a subscription just to import a QFX file.  On the Windows side there is a "partial (with lots of limitations)" loophole (mostly because of its history and what it supports) where QIF files can still be imported even after the subscription expires.

    One last thing.  Since Quicken was sold, Quicken Inc has made some changes in policies, but I see a lot of the "marketing" side hasn't changed at all.  They tend to keep to a certainly beliefs like "We need to twist user's arms to have a business".  There really isn't that many people that would pass up "automatic downloading" for going to every financial website and downloading and importing a QFX file.  I personally think they would be better off it they didn't cut off importing of QFX files.  But it is their company not mine.  And frankly I'm an engineer and not a good business person, so they probably shouldn't take my advice.

    But this isn't the only company that has had such "stupid" view points.
    I have been in companies that sell million dollar machines, which have software that is only useful for running that machine.  And still some "smart" supervisor comes in a demands that the software be licensed and have a "hardware or software token" to install it after the user "pays" for it.  They don't even get they already have a million dollar "hardware token".
    Using Quicken Subscription Premier (and have a copy of Starter to test things on)
  • JustMeHere
    JustMeHere Member ✭✭✭✭
    Sorry, but I'm going to add one more thing.

    I'm not sure, but it is entirely possible that Quicken Inc's contract with Intuit states that they have to block importing of QFX files.

    There is definitely "money to be made" for Intuit for enforcing this policy.
    Using Quicken Subscription Premier (and have a copy of Starter to test things on)
  • jblowitski
    jblowitski Member ✭✭
    Where did my comment go regarding Quicken License agreement? Who took it down? It was the lengthiest comment I have made that quoted their license agreement in my car leasing analogy. Hmmm! ;-)
  • jblowitski
    jblowitski Member ✭✭
    In reference to my comment that is no longer there it was stated that it is under review. Frankly I saw nothing I said of inappropriate nature. I understand that Quicken has the right to remove any comment for any reason at will, but if it does not show back up I will be very disappointed with the company and its service towards customers.
  • JustMeHere
    JustMeHere Member ✭✭✭✭
    In reference to my comment that is no longer there it was stated that it is under review. Frankly I saw nothing I said of inappropriate nature. I understand that Quicken has the right to remove any comment for any reason at will, but if it does not show back up I will be very disappointed with the company and its service towards customers.

    I think you are talking about a popup that says that the comment will be reviewed...

    This seems to be an automatic "spam filtering" system built into the forum.  I have got it on "random" posts from time to time.  They show up later when the moderators have a chance to review and approve them.  I don't think this process has anything to do with the messages having any kind of "inappropriate" content.  (Note I'm sure the SuperUsers are exempt from this process)
    Using Quicken Subscription Premier (and have a copy of Starter to test things on)
This discussion has been closed.