Greyed out boxes in Category List

Doug Dubowski

In my category list, some of the category check boxes under the "Hide" column are greyed out and cannot be selected. What causes these check boxes to be greyed out?

Chris_QPW

Transfers can't be hidden.  They are the ones like [Account Name].

Chris_QPW

Strictly speaking I believe the reason that transfers where originally put into the category column (with a different syntax) was purely to save space and complexity.  But it does line up with "double bookkeeping".

If you treat them separate then you have to provide two columns, which take up more space on the screen and probably in the database too.  What's more you have to make sure that only one is used at a time to make sure people don't double count transactions.  The very fact that you can't use both at the same time most likely is why they felt that they could combine them.  Note they also use the "nonsense" syntax of [Account A] when you are in Account A to mean "comes/goes" from outside of Quicken.

But also if you go back to the original double bookkeeping then you have no such thing as a "transfer", what you have is offsetting entries.  With say Transfer To Account X in one and Transfer To Account Y in the other.  In fact you can still do that in Quicken and the finances still work right (you will need to filter the "Transfer..." "categories" in some reports though to get what you want).

What I think is a real shame is that they didn't extend their syntax and allow for hiding the "Transfers" (actually accounts).

No where in Quicken do they provide a good way to hide accounts on pull down menus.

Chris_QPW

Transfers can't be hidden.  They are the ones like [Account Name].

Doug Dubowski

Thanks. Is there a way that these Categories can be reclassified as "Expense" or "Income"?

Chris_QPW

A transfers is neither income or expense.  It is moving money from one account to another, which doesn't change your net worth.

If you state why you would want to reclassify these "categories", then maybe something can be suggested for that.

Doug Dubowski

Not sure why an account shows up on the category list in the first place. If you go to the Accounts List, all of the "Transfer" type categories (all of which are an account of some sort) are listed and you can hide them under the Account List window. Again, not sure why these accounts show up on the category list. Just seems to confuse the issue.

Tom Young

"Category" is a bit of Quicken-speak meaning "this is an account", (as real accountants use that term), "that will appear on a Spending report." 

On the other hand, having words enclosed in square brackets, e.g., [Bank of America Checking], is Quicken's way of saying "this is an account that will appear on a balance sheet."

Real accountants generally refer to both of these as "accounts", which sometimes is confusing if an account has a vague name that clearly doesn't distinguish it as an income/expense or balance sheet account. 

Given that Quicken is geared towards non-accountants making the distinction clear does have its advantages.  If you're selecting from a list of Categories you know that the dollars you're entering there will show up on some Spending report, while if you're selecting from a list of [Accounts] you know the dollars you're entering will affect some line item on a balance sheet. 

But any entry you make, (Quicken forces you to actually start making your entry in an [Account], can have offsets to Categories, [Accounts], or both.  So even though the register has a box labeled Category, as a practical matter [Accounts] must be included in the list.

If you want to make a transfer show up as a form of "income" or "expense" on a Spending report you can, by suitably modifying the report.  From an "accounting" perspective it's still a "transfer" with no net change in your net worth.

Doug Dubowski

Well, I always treated categories as a means of classifying or sorting transactions so things like spend reports made some sense. How much did I spend on food, clothing, prescriptions, etc. Transfers never fit into that understanding for me. If those transfer accounts were removed from the categories list and restricted to the accounts list, all would be good. I just happened to have stumbled upon them first in the categories list, and then found out how to manipulate them in the Accounts list. Anyway, all is good now. I understand how they work.

Chris_QPW

Strictly speaking I believe the reason that transfers where originally put into the category column (with a different syntax) was purely to save space and complexity.  But it does line up with "double bookkeeping".

If you treat them separate then you have to provide two columns, which take up more space on the screen and probably in the database too.  What's more you have to make sure that only one is used at a time to make sure people don't double count transactions.  The very fact that you can't use both at the same time most likely is why they felt that they could combine them.  Note they also use the "nonsense" syntax of [Account A] when you are in Account A to mean "comes/goes" from outside of Quicken.

But also if you go back to the original double bookkeeping then you have no such thing as a "transfer", what you have is offsetting entries.  With say Transfer To Account X in one and Transfer To Account Y in the other.  In fact you can still do that in Quicken and the finances still work right (you will need to filter the "Transfer..." "categories" in some reports though to get what you want).

What I think is a real shame is that they didn't extend their syntax and allow for hiding the "Transfers" (actually accounts).

No where in Quicken do they provide a good way to hide accounts on pull down menus.