Categories all over the place in Income vs Expense Full screen

On Home Screen drilling into Income v Expenses. Shows expenses that turn up as income, meanwhile there are not income categories. See image. If I go to Reports, Spending then Spending by Category shows equally random list of expenses in Income (see picture). Yet the Home widget graph appears correct. Does anyone know if this a bug? Or some unexplained reason why they are showing up there? No amount of filter corrects the report.

David

Quicken 2020 Quicken Home&Business R25.24
Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Build 18363.900.
Canadian Version

Comments

  • YingDave
    YingDave Member ✭✭✭✭
    By contrast the Widget graph on the Home screen is correct and looks like this.. Why so different when I hit the "Show Full Graph" or "Show Income/Expense Report"?
  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi @YingDave,

    So it is obvious from your screenshots that there are a number of categories included in the income section of the report that are not "income type" accounts.  There have been no reports that I am aware of of similar issues from other users, and to your questions about potential bugs - I am also not aware of any relating to this type of behavior.

    Have you had any other issues with your file?  Do you view this report often and is this clearly new behavior?

    As a test, I suggest that you restore a backup temporarily from some time ago (like a year or more) and see if you get this same reporting.  If you do, that would at least indicate that its not likely a "bug".

    Let me know how that goes and we can discuss next steps.

    Frankx


                           Quicken H&B-Subscription - Windows 10 Home - Ver. 2004
                                             - - - - Quicken User since 1984 - - - 
      -  If you find this reply helpful, please click "Helpful" (below), so others will know! Thank you.  -
  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    For those ODD "income categories", such as Clothing, have you checked to see if (and what) tax line is associated with them.
    Because my 1st guess would be that "Clothing" has an Income Type tax  line.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser, Windows Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    Have you checked to make sure the categories are properly set as Income or Expense?

    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win10 Pro.
  • YingDave
    YingDave Member ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Folks. I am a 27 year user, but first time in this community so learning the protocols:)

    Frankx - File is brand new, converted from Q2013 a week ago. Have validated/super validated the file over the years with no problems. During upgrade of the file it reported no errors. The equivalent reports in Q2013 showed up fine with the same widget and drill down to income/Expense graph/report buttons displaying correctly.

    Yes Rocket Squirrel - all my categories have the right setting for income or expense. I ran through them all again to be sure.

    NotACPA yes you are right these odd income elements are tax related, so I played with that setting on the advance tab to no avail. Actually these are I guess 'negative income items' and they display the same on the 2013 file... Usually I use this for quick spend analysis. So there is a work around by using the actual spend analysis tab which displays everything correctly. But it does erk me.

    I am in the habit of doing a quick drill down from the home page to the graph/report. The real problem is not only mixing expenses into income and vice versa - it's not even pulling out my actual income lines at all. No playing around the customise settings make it work the way it used to. Very odd. I have no other issues with any of the other reports, or spend analysis details. If I go to the Report menu and find the equivalent report it shows the same problem.
  • UKR
    UKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can you show us the Category List  view with all columns for the categories in question? I'd like to see your definitions, whether they are top level categories or subcategories, and the Category Group that you are using.

  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi @YindDave,

    You mentioned above that you've done validate & superdalidate processes in the past - have you done one recently?  If not, I suggest that you do that now just to rule out potential data corruption.  Make sure you backup before you do.

    Let me know how that goes.

    Frankx


                           Quicken H&B-Subscription - Windows 10 Home - Ver. 2004
                                             - - - - Quicken User since 1984 - - - 
      -  If you find this reply helpful, please click "Helpful" (below), so others will know! Thank you.  -
  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser, Windows Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    Frankx said:
    You mentioned above that you've done validate & superdalidate processes in the past - have you done one recently?  If not, I suggest that you do that now just to rule out potential data corruption.  Make sure you backup before you do.
    It's not strictly necessary to back up before validating. Quicken does it automatically, copying the pre-validation file to the VALIDATE sub-folder.
    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win10 Pro.
  • YingDave
    YingDave Member ✭✭✭✭
    Found the logs of the file conversion in %AppData% and it reported "Validating your data: No errors" but I did validate anyway (not sure if Ctrl+Shift+validate works on this version) but reported no errors beside recalculating cost base or something and an error on a business estimate that I just deleted.

    UKR not sure how to cut/past more than one image in the little postage stamp size reply box or have it appear mid post (is there a reference on how to make better use of forum post somewhere?) but anyway yes ~ half my categories are sub categories some a tax related some not.

    Thanks
  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi @YingDave,

    Thanks for providing the additional information.  From what you've sent, I think that the problem could emanate more from the report that you are generating itself, rather than to the underlying data.

    So what I'd like to do is to try to replicate the report.  Can you tell me the steps that you take to get the report?  You said above you are starting on the home screen and drilling down - can you tell me what options you are selecting?

    Thanks.

    Frankx


                           Quicken H&B-Subscription - Windows 10 Home - Ver. 2004
                                             - - - - Quicken User since 1984 - - - 
      -  If you find this reply helpful, please click "Helpful" (below), so others will know! Thank you.  -
  • UKR
    UKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    YingDave said:
    UKR not sure how to cut/past more than one image in the little postage stamp size reply box or have it appear mid post (is there a reference on how to make better use of forum post somewhere?) but anyway yes ~ half my categories are sub categories some a tax related some not.

    Thanks
    The Comment box will expand in size as necessary to contain all text and imbedded images.
    You can imbed or attach more than one image per comment.


  • YingDave
    YingDave Member ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks UKR that is curious - I do not get a row of editing tools in this dialog box. Just one single Emoji face...
  • YingDave
    YingDave Member ✭✭✭✭
    Hi Frankx - The way I am generating the report: On the Home page I have the "Income vs. Expense" widget loaded after customising. The #2 post I made above is the right portion of that graph. On that widget I hit "Show full graph" then I get the "Income vs. Expenses" report which gives me that wacky report shown in Post #1. The widget graph on the home screen has setup (customise this graph) all categories, all tags selected and all 'Spending' accounts selected (Check, Credit card, Cash). Nothing customised on the second - as per default popup window.

    Attached is the same datafile just before conversion, with the same home screen, hitting the same button, where the pop up report looks fine congruent with the widget underneath - in Q2013 - All good. But in Q2020 when opened it all over the shop.
  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Hi @YingDave,

    Okay, so I think that I've made some progress on understanding what you correctly described as "that wacky report shown in Post #1". 

    I was able to replicate that "Income vs. Expenses - Year to Date" graph (which you call a "widget") to show "income" (which is the mustard yellow bar) to go negative, or below the center line.  I did that by making a payment in a checking account that was posted to an "income category".  I also was able to show "expenses" (which is the green bar) to go negative, or below the center line, by recording a deposit in the same checking account that was posted to an "expense category".  And I would say that those graphic results make sense. 

    Also, in looking at the schedule of "Income" that appears below "that wacky report shown in Post #1" I can understand why - when you have all debits being posted to Income categories in a given period, with no offsetting credits (i.e. actual income) resulting in "negative income" of $1,940.02 for the period - the accompanying graph shows below the line, as well.  So my conclusion is that the graph - at least for the one month is accurate when it shows negative income.

    I would suggest that you reconsider the categories that are currently included under the "Income" section of your "chart of accounts".  Many items - such as clothing, Dental&Extras care, Donations, Household, Insurance, Medical, and Stationary - are clearly not income type accounts and should be classified as expenses instead.  These contribute to your problems.  In addition, it is odd that "SuperContribSS" and "SuperContribTaxed" are included under income (since they are deductions from income) and that there are entries for those in a month when apparently there was no wage income.  You didn't provide the expense categories, but i suspect that you could have issues there as well.

    But I cannot explain or recreate how or why the "whacky report" could transform into the new "Income vs. Expenses" graph that you recently posted directly above.  This one seems to reflect some different data than the previously posted graphs, and in addition if you take a look at my snip (attached) you'll see that for the first period (June 2019) the "Full Graph" shown negative income and positive expenses but for this same month - the other graph (behind it in both snips) shows positive income and positive expenses (see my annotation). That clearly makes no sense.

    Hope this helps.

    Frankx



                           Quicken H&B-Subscription - Windows 10 Home - Ver. 2004
                                             - - - - Quicken User since 1984 - - - 
      -  If you find this reply helpful, please click "Helpful" (below), so others will know! Thank you.  -
  • YingDave
    YingDave Member ✭✭✭✭
    Frankx I do appreciate your research and time here. Not sure we are at the bottom of it. The only patterns which I can confirm are true here are that they are all subcategories underneath the category shown (sometimes entered in a split window) and all those that seem out of place are tax related. They are also going into Line of Credit (Credit Card) rather than a check account? Eg. Clothing appears in both income and expense. Clothing:Work appears on the income line (and is tax related), Clothing:Normal appears in the Expense lines (is not tax related). So Clothing appears on both sides of the equation and you only see which subcategory it is when you drill down. Income:Salary is my wage income that was in fact present in those months - but it is a negative expense not income!

    In any case why would the 2 graphs be so different in their treatment of the same data set? I am going to play around in a test file to see what exactly each report is 'interpreting' differently and stew on it for a while. Which would also line up with your annotation which are graphs from Quicken 2013. Either way yes I will audit my categories in detail, but I have not had to for 20+ years...I am still flummoxed.
  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi again @YingDave,

    I agree that we are not at the bottom yet.  There just are two many odd occurrences that have surfaced too closely with your upgrade to subscription.  In most of these types of cases I would have believed that data corruption was playing a part, but you did the validation routine...

    Other than your next steps (outlined above), one other option would be for you to contact Quicken support.  They usually deal with application issues but they may have some insights that will be helpful.  Here's the link.

    Keep me advised.

    Frankx


                           Quicken H&B-Subscription - Windows 10 Home - Ver. 2004
                                             - - - - Quicken User since 1984 - - - 
      -  If you find this reply helpful, please click "Helpful" (below), so others will know! Thank you.  -
  • YingDave
    YingDave Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2020
    Hi there folks, This is still an issue. It is not just the dashboard graphs, but stand report Spending, Income and Expense by Category. See it has negative income amounts which are all tax related expenses. My income appears as a negative expense.

    The only thing I can think of is that some brilliant programmer has hard coded this report with certain categories appearing in certain inc/esp buckets and regardless of your category set up it is. Since I have in Australia and have different category setup it does not work for me - but not an issue for anyone in US/CA. I have logged support job but I am not overly confident it will be fixed since some other bugs have been around for years in CA version.

    Just a heads up if someone else is a non conformist like me from other parts of the world :)
  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi @YingDave,

    Sorry that you are still having problems with the reporting. 

    I know (after again reviewing our back & forth above) that you did the file validation process.  However I don't remember whether you also did the "super validate" process. If you have not tried that yet, I suggest that you also do super validate. 

    Here's how:

    1) Redo the file validate process (remember to first make a copy of your data file created in Quicken rather than the data file you've been using and validate that copy);
    2) Fix any errors from the validation process;
    3) Run a super validate as follows:
    Click File / File Operations. Press and hold SHIFT+CTRL as you click Validate and Repair. The next popup should show "Supervalidate" somewhere in header or text. Click "Supervalidate File", check to make sure the copied file is being validated, click OK. Let it run. It might run for a while. 
    After it finishes, again you should fix any errors logged as not repaired by Quicken.

    Keep me advised as to how things go.

    Frankx


                           Quicken H&B-Subscription - Windows 10 Home - Ver. 2004
                                             - - - - Quicken User since 1984 - - - 
      -  If you find this reply helpful, please click "Helpful" (below), so others will know! Thank you.  -
  • YingDave
    YingDave Member ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks @Frankx - Sorry have been offline for a good 2+ weeks building and migrating to a new PC. Old one was nearing it's 11th Birthday and becoming untrustworthy (not the files). Yeah my file has no errors and has been super validated more than once. Just have to chalk it up to one of those unsolved mysteries I guess!
This discussion has been closed.