Super Validate finds same errors every day

13

Answers

  • markus1957
    markus1957 SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    edited March 18
    FWIW, the first step in the validation routine is to first make a windows copy of the file and place it in the Validate folder.

    One other test would be after individually accepting all transactions and clicking Done, close/open Quicken and run validation.  If the temp account is encountered, that would make the case for the cleanup routine being omitted in the workflow.

    adding- re-read your last post and you seem to have already done this step. It seems not clicking Done leaves the temp files intact.  That seems logical but at some point a fully accepted temp table must get deleted. 

    Should that happen on Exit? What role does Finish Later play? Does it also leave the temp table intact or is it moved to another permanent table?

    Sure hope the devs don't make a worse mess of it trying to fix old code that likely none of them were involved in creating. This is sounding more like an issue that needs an explanation rather than a fix.
  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    I've now successfully demonstrated the issue discussed in this thread to senior Quicken Support. They are going to investigate this issue. I'll update the thread when I hear back from Quicken Support.
  • Don Awalt
    Don Awalt Member ✭✭✭✭
    @Don Awalt: I wanted a process to reproduce the issues in a New Quicken file that I create live during a screen share session with Q support. I've got such a process now.

    I've confirmed that all I need to do is create a brand new Quicken File, add one account with an EWC connection, then accept one single transaction (not using Accept all), and then run File Validation. I get the discussed invalid transaction in temp account errors. Very simple to reproduce.
    The process you describe may be by design.  That temp table needs to stay resident until all transactions are accepted, maybe longer.  You can often after accepting transactions, return to the download register and Unaccept All. It's not unexpected that a validation would encounter those still resident by design temp tables. One could argue that running validate should really only be done on a fresh open of a data file to exclude all of the under the hood processes that are cleaned up during the Exit process.

    The condition you describe would only be characterized as an error when all transactions were accepted and the program exited; if then after reopening the issue arose when validation was run. Keeping in mind that if transactions in the download register were only partially accepted, there would still be a need for the temp table to stay resident.

    This is only an error if it can be shown to occur in a freshly opened file in which no downloaded transactions await acceptance. 
    @[email protected] you may be on to something here! This morning I tried something different. While in the past (I am the OP) this sequenced failed:

    1 - download credit card transactions
    2 - accept one or more individually in a given card
    3 - click done
    4 - run Super Validate - errors

    This morning I thought about what you are pondering and tried this:

    1 - download credit card transactions
    2 - accept one or more individually in a given card
    3 - click done
    3A - EXIT QUICKEN
    4 - Re-run Quicken - run Super Validate - CLEAN!!!
  • Dl260
    Dl260 Member
    Thank you, Arctic Hare!
  • mmann32
    mmann32 Member ✭✭
    > @markus1957 said:
    > The process you describe may be by design.  That temp table needs to stay resident until all transactions are accepted, maybe longer.  You can often after accepting transactions, return to the download register and Unaccept All. It's not unexpected that a validation would encounter those still resident by design temp tables. One could argue that running validate should really only be done on a fresh open of a data file to exclude all of the under the hood processes that are cleaned up during the Exit process.
    >
    > The condition you describe would only be characterized as an error when all transactions were accepted and the program exited; if then after reopening the issue arose when validation was run. Keeping in mind that if transactions in the download register were only partially accepted, there would still be a need for the temp table to stay resident.
    >
    > This is only an error if it can be shown to occur in a freshly opened file in which no downloaded transactions await acceptance. 

    @markus1957 hit the nail on the head, at least in my case. Thank you Markus! I opened my Quicken file, ran a quick validate to make sure I had a clean file (which it was), then I downloaded transactions. After accepting about 10 transactions one by one into my registers, I exited the program. Once re-opened, I ran validate and it came back clean. The exit processes certainly cleaned up all residual tables. With Quicken crashing so much lately, I've been running validate much more often. Oftentimes Quicken will crash with transactions still waiting to be accepted. This is how I discovered the phantom accounts in the first place and had just assumed it was a flaw. Glad it's not; one less thing to worry about. Now if I could just figure out how prior entered splits suddenly disappear, while the target account entries stay behind. I'll start a discussion on that one now if it's not already here.
  • Don Awalt
    Don Awalt Member ✭✭✭✭
    FYI this problem is still occurring. I thought dressing transactions one by one, exiting, and then re-entering Quicken cleaned everything up, but it does not. Accepting transactions one by one, then quite the program, re-run the program, I get this:

    QDF:
    Validating your data.
    Quicken repaired damaged transaction index.  No action required.
    Quicken found an invalid transaction and removed it. "ACCT_267"  0/ 0/1900
    Quicken repaired some transaction information.  No action required.
     "ACCT_267"  0/ 0/1900
    Quicken found an invalid transaction and removed it. "ACCT_267"  0/ 0/1900
    Quicken repaired some transaction information.  No action required.
     "ACCT_267"  0/ 0/1900

    Summary:
    Quicken repaired 1 accounts.  No action required.

    AND then run it a second time, get this:

    QDF:
    Validating your data.
    Repaired your data file by removing a damaged category. Please check your category list for missing categories by going to Tools>Category List.

    After that, the file is clean again.
  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    I have demonstrated this issue to Quicken Tech Support. I have also provided Quicken Tech Support with a file that exhibits the issue (i.e. the tech support rep was able to open the data file that I provided to him and then run File Validate and the errors discussed here). A ticket has been opened with Quicken Product Development and the demonstration file has been provided to Product Development for review. I am waiting for an update from Tech Support on any progress that Product Development is making on the issue.

    I encourage all others who are experiencing this issue to open a ticket with Quicken phone support and report and demonstrate the problem to Quicken Tech Support. The more people who contact Quicken about the issue, the more attention the issue will get. At the moment there may be only one person who has actually raised this issue with Quicken Support - me. Thus, there is a risk that Quicken will view the issue as a single user problem and assign it low priority.
  • Don Awalt
    Don Awalt Member ✭✭✭✭
    To be honest, I am not jumping through hoops to do more to report this. There are at least 2-3 threads on this with a number of users reporting it. It has been happening for A LONG TIME. To think it's acceptable that Quicken could take an attitude of "I don't SEE a lot of people reporting this even though I have been told it's the subject of threads on the forum, I only have to worry about what I SEE..." is absurd. Wake up Quicken.

    This is an embarrassment for Quicken as a support issue especially given this is a subscription service that promised a better experience with the cash flow to clean up the product - much of which has been done, but Quicken is oddly stubborn in ignoring some problems without even a comment or reply when you ask them.

    This just gets added to my list of features I don't use/avoid because they don't work right. I am certainly not at the point of imminently jumping ship to another product, but Quicken's attitude toward customers lends itself to very little customer loyalty. My bank is getting closer and closer to replacing what I need from Quicken, and I already use their bill payer now as Quicken's was not reliable. Time is not on Quicken's side with such a stubborn communications with its customers.

  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    @Don Await: I share your frustration. Quicken Tech Support and Quicken Product Development seem to largely ignore discussions in the Community. And, the Quicken folks that moderate the Community seem to only bring issues to the attention of PD when it is evident the issue is affecting a very large number of users. I even wonder sometimes if Tech Support and Product Development have been explicitly directed not to consult the Community as a reference and source of insight. I've long thought that Quicken could get a lot more value out of the Community than they do. The Community contains a plethora of insight that would benefit the PD team, if effectively leveraged (my opinion).

    The "only a small number of users are affected by the issue" argument is a real bone of contention for me, because, when it comes to Quicken's support for issues that impact a minority customers, I regularly get a bad deal. I use the Canadian version of Quicken, which puts me into a small minority group to begin with. Combine using the Canadian version with being a SuperUser who uses a wide range of the feature set and I often find myself in the extreme minority - with problems that I encounter being assigned a very low priority based on # of users affected. I'm all to experienced with having to argue that I'm not the only user affected by a user... and even if I was, that still shouldn't preclude fixing the issue. 

    All that being said, for those who want to see action on an issue, the best way is to get Quicken to give the issue higher priority is by creating a large number of support tickets for the same issue. The Community is an excellent forum for sharing knowledge between users, but, presently, largely ineffective for guiding Product Development (my opinion). The Community is commonly highly effective at helping users learn how to use or better use properly functioning features of Quicken (peer to peer support); however, I find the Community much less effective at accelerating fixes for bugs, undesirable behavior, and feature requests. In order for the latter to improve, Quicken would have to implement better processes for leveraging insight from the Community (my opinion).
  • BJB
    BJB Member ✭✭
    I am SO GLAD I found this thread! I have been a Quicken user for.....well.... a long long time.

    I do regular backups and I had the "once in a blue moon" data file issue while editing an investment transaction that I just knew created a database issue as quicken crashed. And then portfolio view wouldn't open.

    Although I had a backup a few days old, being a veteran user (but not knowing about the above issue) I ran a validate. The log shows that sure enough it repaired the transaction that caused the issue, and then I saw all of the ACCT_XXX dated 0/0/1900 entries. Now I have used Quicken a long time but I think I started a few years after 1900!

    Anyway, I didn't think anything of it as portfolio worked and quicken seemed normal. HOWEVER, I have many old quicken online Payees from those many years and still use a handful. After my data validate my last few online transactions did not show the lightning bolt (although the transaction was there) and the payees were gone. Now to be clear, I did NOT have this issue before the validate. It was just portfolio that was acting strange. I did not spend a ton of time poking around, the verification had clearly introduced issues that were not previously there.

    After reading this thread I can put two and two together but besides not cleaning up these temp files within the program code for downloads, I think the validate may delete them and not set things up correctly itself!

    Anyway, I went back to my backup from before the transaction issue and all is good. I really appreciate the users on this thread digging into the details on this issue. In the past, I have had to do that also for other issues. However knock on wood I may have a real database issue maybe once every 5 or 10 years or so if that.....

    It would be nice if they fix not only the internal program code, but whatever validate is doing inappropriately here. I just thought I would sure the interaction with the online payee accounts and transactions in case that helps anybody.

    Thanks,
    BJB
  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    @BJB: Thanks for sharing and documenting your experience with the issue. Even better if you would also contact Quicken Telephone Support and open a support ticket in relation to the issues. That's how to get Quicken Product Development to give attention/priority to an issue. The more tickets opened against an issue, the higher the priority. Unfortunately, Quicken Tech Support and Quicken Product Development rarely look to the Community for insight to prioritize issues, so posting here - alone - is not sufficient.
  • BJB
    BJB Member ✭✭
    @Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) ,
    I will do that!
    BJB
  • Keddie
    Keddie Member ✭✭
    Ran this in a VM utilizing a cleaned file and having reported issues with file validation. The artifacts of the data file from the obfuscation remain even after the upgrade. Extremely disappointing. See export below showing ACCT_XX corruption which outright doesn't exist.

    QDF:
    Validating your data.
    Quicken repaired Jason Car Loan 2020 account. No action required.
    Quicken repaired damaged transaction index. No action required.
    Quicken found an invalid transaction and removed it. "ACCT_85" 0/ 0/1900
    Quicken repaired some transaction information. No action required.
    "ACCT_85" 0/ 0/1900

    Summary:
    Quicken repaired 1 accounts. No action required.


    QEL:
    No read errors.

    QEL:
    All internal consistency checks passed.

    [Sat May 01 21:53:24 2021]
    3 scheduled transactions corrected
    No out-of-range security references found.

    Validation has completed.
  • System
    System Member ✭✭✭✭
    This discussion was created from comments split from: R22.12 broke paycheck function - still broke after R29.xx ?.
  • Don Awalt
    Don Awalt Member ✭✭✭✭
    @[email protected] this no longer works, exiting and restarting and running super validate in step 4 now shows the same errors as reported by many here. So the temp records are not being cleared even on an exit/restart. So I am back to never accepting transactions one by one unless it appears this gets addressed, who knows what other damage it is causing in data files?

    1 - download credit card transactions
    2 - accept one or more individually in a given card
    3 - click done
    3A - EXIT QUICKEN
    4 - Re-run Quicken - run Super Validate - CLEAN!!!
  • Divemaster
    Divemaster Member ✭✭✭
    Could you tell me or point me to a place that says what the difference is between a validate and super validate?  I always run a super against the file, but insure I have a backup that is current. 
  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    @Divemaster - To my knowledge, Quicken has never explicitly divulged the precise differences between Validate and SuperValidate. The best information that I've seen indicates that SuperValidate looks for one or two very specific, uncommon issues that Validate does not. That information also suggests that SuperValidate poses a greater risk of causing irreparable damage to the data file. The fact that SuperValidate is not visible on the menus suggests that Quicken does not expect users to make regular use of SuperValidate. In fact, Quicken support strongly discourages regular use of Validate, never mind SuperValidate.

    Also, do keep in mind that Quicken has had some issues with restoration of backups as they transition Express Web Connect. I mention this because it is one more reason why a backup should be means of last resort. A backup is sufficient protection in most circumstances, but it hasn't been a complete failsafe in some recent situations.

    I choose not to use SuperValidate unless I find myself facing an issue that cannot be resolved otherwise.
  • Don Awalt
    Don Awalt Member ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the very complete description @Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian). I am not trying to be funny or critical, you help us all so much here. But I can't help but note the irony in what you say - again I have no reason to believe it's not 100% correct - but in summary:

    Super Validate your data file - avoid unless absolutely necessary - not reliable
    Validate your data file - avoid unless absolutely necessary - not reliable
    Using a backup - avoid unless absolutely necessary - not reliable

    Is it just me or is this very odd (dare I say unacceptable?) for a software product that manages years and years of user's critical financial data? It makes one wonder why giving users the tools to ensure the integrity of their data is not a higher priority (or available). Troubling...
  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    @Don Awalt: I would be careful about using the term "unreliable" when it comes to data file validations - with any software, not just Quicken. There are a multitude of things that could go wrong with a datafile. Quicken's validation routines are designed to fix some, but not all, of the things that can go wrong. Quickens validation tools are capable of repairing some, but not all data integrity issues. If Validation runs into an issue that it hasn't been designed to handle, the result could be undesirable; at worst, it yields a data file that can never be opened again. Yes, that has happened to me.

    Full disclosure: I do run validate periodically... even though senior Quicken support has advised me that doing so is not a good practice. I don't run SuperValidate unless I am looking for a last resort method to fix an issue that cannot be otherwise resolved. I can't recall the last time I ran a SuperValidate.

    I've used Quicken for about 30 years. Over the years, I've had a few data files become corrupted to the point they cannot be used anymore. I can think of only one occasion where Validate was helpful. In each case, the corruption was the result of a serious bug introduced into Quicken. So, why do I run periodic validations if it normally doesn't do anything and there is some downside risk? For me, File Validation can be a canary in a coal mine; I've had a few occasions where running validation has alerted me to lurking data integrity issues that I've chosen to address by restoring a backup, etc. before ending up in a worse situation. These were issues that couldn't be repaired by the validation tools, but Validation provided visibility of pending disaster, which I would otherwise not have had.

    The reality is that Validate and SuperValidate can address (repair) only a small number of issues. They are not panacea tools. These tools are useful - when faced with the specific issues they address, but they aren't the answer/solution to every issue (or to most issues for that matter).

    *** Opinion *** I've settled on running periodic (say monthly or weekly) Validations. However, I now only run validation after accepting all downloaded transactions, creating a backup, closing and re-opening Quicken. I shouldn't have to do all of that to safely use Validation, but that is, in my opinion, a safe approach that balances the risk of running validations and the risk of not running validations. Although Quicken advises against this practice, it has not caused any apparent issues in my experience. I will continue to heed Quicken Support's advice to avoid using the (hidden feature) SuperValidate unless there is reason to suspect that that there is a specific data integrity issue that merits the use of that particular tool.

    The issue with restoring backups is concerning - and I did experience that issue. I'm not certain whether that has been fixed already - I hope so.


  • Divemaster
    Divemaster Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 18
    Thanks for the information, I was thinking there would be a clear difference of what they (Validates) do, but it is what it is.

    On backups, I do one to a USB thumb drive after each use of Quicken.  I do use the Quicken backup process with date and time added.  When I restore from the backup, I don't use the Quicken process.  I rename the file I believe has issues (my production file).  Then I copy the backup from USB over to the correct directory and rename it to what Quicken will be looking for to open.   This has been used a lot and always works.  That way I don't use the Quicken restore process.

    I have thought that since I don't restore with Quicken, perhaps instead of using Quicken to backup, I should just copy/paste a backup.  That thinking was because Quicken may format that backup different than what runs in production mode?   However, that must not be the case as I have done a number of restores without using Quicken procedures without any problems. 

    Sorry I got off topic, I will keep quite now.   
  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    @Divemaster: The concept of a "backup" with Quicken is more complex than what it might seem on the surface. Quicken now synchronizes all your data to the cloud - even if you turn off the mobile/web features. I am not, and won't pretend to be an expert on these matters, but can discuss this conceptually. Each Quicken file has unique identifiers that relate it to the synchronized data in the cloud and also to Express Web Connect data, if you use that service. Hence, you shouldn't think of a backup of Quicken file as something as simple as a back of your standard Word or Excel file. Each Quicken file is uniquely connected to cloud based data. If you upset or compromise that uniqueness, bad things can happen.

    Because of the intricacies of synchronization, EWC, etc. I suggest you exercise caution in working around Quicken's backup and restore processes. You could, in advertently, cause unexpected synchronization. I started experiencing this at one point. I restored a backup and that restored backup somehow got populated automatically with data that was entered after the backup was created; i.e. what was restored had more data than what was backed up. Somehow the unique/identifiers with cloud synched data got misconnected and it created a mess. And, no, I don't use mobile/web features; they are all turned off.

    Thus, I recommend using backup and restore as provided and as Quicken expects them to be used. The exception to this might be using backup software, including image based backups and/or Windows File History (backup). I, for example, create image based backups (using Veritas System Restore) daily and I use Windows File History (Yes, I have massive storage available), so I have options to restore any file to any state. I can extract my Quicken file out of the image from any given day for the last couple months. Outside of those options, I recommend working within as-designed features and processes because doing otherwise could have unintended, unforeseen consequences.

  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    Since Quicken Inc has never disclosed what the difference is all we get is terms like "more aggressive".

    As a programmer I can give a bit more insight on what "validate" is and why its results may cause problems.
    Databases have all kinds of "links" from one record to another.  You have an account record that holds the main information, and part of the record is how to look up the transaction records.  You have a "transfer" which is nothing more than a reference to a transaction record in another register.

    So one of the main purposes of a "validate" would be to scan through all the records and try to see if the links line up properly.  Now here comes the risk.  The validate finds that X link isn't referencing the record it thinks it should.  In some cases it might be able to figure out what record it was suppose to reference and fix it, in other cases the "fix" might be to remove the whole record.  Validate is looking to make the database "consistent" not necessarily "correct" in all cases.

    There will be other kinds of checks like maybe seeing of the options selected make sense where if X is selected Y shouldn't be.  Or a check on the security dates.  It will give you a warning for a security that has a date in the future.

    The bottom line is that when damage occurs in a database there isn't any guarantee that there is a "fix", what's more one has to keep in mind two things.  One is that the developer had to first decide to check for a given condition, and will not know all possible failure modes/problems.  Second Validate is code too.  As such there can be bugs in the Validate/Repair code.

    Next on backups and the "newly introduced problems".

    In fact this isn't a a backup problem, it is a restore problem.

    What you have to be aware of is now that they are now "syncing" much more to the Quicken Cloud data set.  This syncing goes on even if you don't use Sync to Mobile/Web.

    I will say it now has three levels of sync.
    1. Basic information (of an unknown amount) which certainly includes things like the credit score, bill manager, ...
    2. Express Web Connect.  The switch to QCS for the connection method means you now have a sync from Quicken to the Quicken Cloud data set for the transactions, and it also includes syncing the attachments.
    3. "Full sync", where the user has Sync to Mobile/Web on.

    With all this syncing going on there is a fundamental problem, how do you keep the data file and the cloud data set in sync?

    It is clear to me that they are assuming a one to one match.  One data file to one cloud data set.
    They use a hidden unique Id in the data file (and data set) to ensure they are connecting the correct ones.

    This is in itself introduced a problem with "copies".  No matter how you copy a data file, the unique Id will not change.  As such in the past people would copy a data file and then start changing that data file as if it was a different file.  As long as there wasn't any sync this was fine.  But as you can see above, that never the case any more.  So at some point both of these files will actually be syncing with the same cloud data set.  And it expects "one data file" not two data files with different information in them.  Clearly the more information that is synced the more likely this is going to mess up both the data file and the cloud data set.

    Now back to a restore.  If you think about it, it is also a copy.  In fact you can just change the .Backup-QDF to .QDF and use it.  There isn't anything different about it other than that type.  And all that type does is tell Quicken that when opening it, should it just open it (.QDF) or if it should prompt for a restore (.Backup-QDF).

    Unlike the copy where you purposely made them different the backup and the current data file/cloud data set) should "have the same history" and as such more likely to "properly sync".  But in fact it really depends on exactly how much and what has changed.  Not to mention there are other "players" in the picture.

    So the basic risk is while restoring the sync might think that it needs to change something in the data file because it sees it in the cloud data set.  That is why the current recommendation is to first delete the cloud data set before doing a restore.
    Signature:
    (I'm always using the latest Quicken Windows Premier subscription version)
    This is my website: http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/
  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    I'll suggest that a key take-away - for the average user - from @Chris_QPW's detailed discussion above is to appreciate that the cloud functionality has introduced (hidden) complexity into (historically simple) matters such as backup and restore; therefore, one should be careful about using processes other than what is recommended by Quicken. Because these processes are more complex than what is apparent (or intuitive), creating ad hoc processes, without a full understanding of such complexity, which is not publicly disclosed, could have undesirable outcomes. Furthermore, it is important to appreciate that the cited complexity can't be entirely avoided by turning off the web/mobile features; some form of cloud synch will proceed regardless of whether those features are activated.
  • Divemaster
    Divemaster Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks that all makes sense and I like learning more details about the software.   I guess I have been lucky, I don't use any cloud functions with Quicken.   I don't use any of their payments functions.   I no longer use any of their investment tools, haven since around 2011.  Have never downloaded transactions from bank.  For what I do, I could be using their old DOS version (I think they had Saving Goals back then)?   I wish I hadn't upgraded back a couple years ago, I could have rev locked with 2017.  Now Quicken makes it horrible to run unless I renew another 12 months for features I don't want or have any need for.   I can get a copy of software at a local store, price not bad and renew.  But that is okay, I know other options if I really wanted to move on. 
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18
    @Divemaster just so you know, Quicken 2016/2017 can read your Quicken Subscription data file.
    That doesn't get you completely out of "online" since it still has a Quicken Id, but it gets you out of the subscription, and the banner that comes up if the subscription lapses.
    Signature:
    (I'm always using the latest Quicken Windows Premier subscription version)
    This is my website: http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/
  • Divemaster
    Divemaster Member ✭✭✭
    Chris_QPW said:
    @Divemaster just so you know, Quicken 2016/2017 can read your Quicken Subscription data file.
    That doesn't get you completely out of "online" since it still has a Quicken Id, but it gets you out of the subscription, and the banner that comes up if the subscription lapses.

    I heard that, I went from 2013 to 2018.  Stupid move, I just had a schedule of updating around every 5 years.   Didn't have a clue at that time of the new subscription procedures.  Don't have a copy of 2016/2017, seen some on-line, but was a little suspicious of the sources.

    Artic, I do two images a week one with Acronis and one with Reflect.   Do not use any of Acronis cloud functions.  Use an external USB drive that is removed after image is taken and can boot with CD to restore.   Both have been used and work well.
  • BJB
    BJB Member ✭✭
    Great info in this thread! I do not sync to mobile but do sync investments, bank accounts and credit cards. When cloud sync is discussed above, is it these third party cloud syncs or some hidden quicken sync. Sorry if I missed that post.
  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    @BJB: When you say "Sync" do you mean download? Regardless, even if you have the mobile/web features turned off, Quicken is still synching a lot of your data into the Cloud - to a Quicken Cloud server that is, not one of your financial institutions. I don't know that any of us users/superusers have a full understanding of the extent of this synch (when mobile/web is turned off), but I've been led to understand that Quicken synchs everything to Cloud and simply keeps that cloud data inaccessible if you have the mobile/web features turned off. You can see some evidence in the Cloud Sync Log, which is now where EWC log records are written - at least for the Canadian version. The migration from the Sync Log to the Cloud Sync Log was piloted in the Canadian version, but if I am not mistaken it has now been rolled out to most or all of the user base.
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    @Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) Well even though it is true that no one has a full understanding of what is synced I can tell you like I said above there are "levels" to this.  Not everything is synced.  In fact there isn't any "level" where everything is synced.

    The most "hazy" level would be the lowest.  Say you are using none of the online services at all.  There is certainly a least some information they are using for the Quicken Id.  I would venture to say that even "unsupported" Quicken 2016/2017 is storing "something" in the cloud data set.  And the very fact that there is a subscription probably means that Quicken Subscription is storing some more.  Then depending on what online services one uses you can certainly see it "trickling up".  To what extent, no one other than the developers know that.

    But all online services are not created equal in this discussion.  As far as any user has been able to determine Direct Connect doesn't store anything in the cloud data set.

    The "next level" is Express Web Connect.
    Before it was:
    Quicken -> Intuit Server -> Financial institution's website.
    Now it changing over to:
    Quicken -> QCS (Quicken Connection Services/cloud data set) -> Intuit Server -> Financial institution's website.

    QCS is "sync" see this:
    https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7882641/qcs-express-web-connect-is-cloud-sync

    But only for the transactions/attachments, and if "Sync to Mobile/Web" these transactions aren't visible from Mobile/Web, but they are certainly in the cloud data set.

    How far back are these transactions?  That hasn't been exactly stated.  And it isn't clear if this a moving window like it is on the Intuit servers.

    The last level is "Sync to Mobile/Web".
    This sync isn't just transactions (and starts with a sync of two years, so it isn't all of them).  It includes categories, budgets and such.

    Clearly as you go up this ladder more is synced and of course there is more potential of something going wrong.

    There is something else to understand about "sync", it doesn't seem to be restricted in any way of what it can change (given a bug).  In other words it has been caught changing statuses and transactions years into the past in the data file even though these transactions have never been synced to the cloud data set.
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  • BJB
    BJB Member ✭✭
    Thanks to you both! I understand it much better.
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