Datasets Full??

oldngrmpy1
oldngrmpy1 Member ✭✭✭✭
After another hour on the phone with support, I was told I can't do anymore File Restore operations. Dataset is full so if I do any more "Restore Files", Dataset will probably lock me out, and I'll have to call each time to have support reset it for me. Any suggestions on how to live with this?
Current Windows 10, Current Qkn Deluxe Win Subscription, Sync turned OFF

Best Answer

  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    Accepted Answer
    Well this means that the advice people have been giving for years on how to work with two machines (backup and restore) needs to be change.

    Personally when I think about this the more I get the feeling that it is a sign of a flawed syncing system.  That system has been showing its ugly head a lot lately.
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Answers

  • GeoffG
    GeoffG SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    The following article shows how to delete data sets.
    https://www.quicken.com/support/how-edit-or-delete-your-cloud-datasets-quicken-windows
    With that said, I would suspect somehow more data sets are being created than is normal. There should be one data set per data file. Are you somehow creating multiple data files? Having multiple data files is not an issue, but there appears to be a limit on the cloud.
     user since '92 | Quicken Windows Premier - Subscription | Windows 10 Pro version 21H1
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    Given the statement "I was told I can't do anymore File Restore operations" it sounds like at least Quicken support believes this operation is creating multiple data sets per data file.

    If so that certainly seems like a bug.
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  • oldngrmpy1
    oldngrmpy1 Member ✭✭✭✭
    GeoffG, thanks for the info. That does not work because I do not use Mobile and Web setting. I have sync turned off because I do not use the Mobile version. If you go to Edit > Preferences > Mobile and Web, I have sync turned off because I do not use Mobile. That being the case I NEVER get that notification "Syncing to the cloud...." notification you see flash on the screen when you do certain operations, that being said I also do not get the opportunity when I go to: Edit > Preferences > Quicken ID & Cloud Accounts, I do not get the option to edit or delete datasets. what caused the dataset fillup is when I try to restore something, Quicken will automatically sync to the cloud anyway (even though I have Sync turned off anyway. I guess it must have to sync to the cloud in order to do a restore operation. The way tech support explained it to me is that it is like your cell phone with a 100 minute plan. Once you get to 100 minutes the system switches you over off the plan so you either need to call to reset it to a larger plan or pay out the wazoo. Quicken however gives you no options, they just shut you down. When you call they reset you by deleting only the very last dataset just to get you up and back running again. They won't do anymore out of fear that you will loose important backups. So I was told "just don't do any Restore File operations. For some reason they haven't even tried addressing the issue setting to "Mobile and Web" to sync anyway, and they say there is nothing more I can do now, or they can do now, that the dataset is full and that's that!. Support seemed very tight lipped about all this for some reason.

    Chris QPW, I have another post explaining some of how all this got to be. Look up my name "TJ102, or search "All Savings listing to All Checking". I suspect this whole thing is a crag Meier to Quicken, thus the tight lips! They have no fix except to delete your last Dataset, just to get you going again, after that if it happens again you call support (2nd level must do it) they will not allow the level 1 support you get when you call in do it) again for another reset. I suspect due to liability issues on your back ups if they were to screw up all your backup data and lost your backup data. I asked for info on all this on what, when, why, where, and how much so I could understand Datasets better. but only answer I got concerning the question was that they had noting they could give me regarding that. If I just had the option to be able to get to my data sets and delete the one's I don't need. But no such deal, and I'd didn'r hear anything about there ever being a plan down the road. Just be careful if  you start doing restore operations, and how many you do!
    Current Windows 10, Current Qkn Deluxe Win Subscription, Sync turned OFF
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    I see that article is "incomplete".

    Every data file has a "cloud account"/data set no matter if you turn "Sync" on or not.
    It stores more than just Quicken Mobile/Web data (which the "Sync" turns on/make visible).  For instance it has information for the credit score, Zillow, and with the new connection method it holds Express Web Connect transaction data too.

    In the past you could see this whether the Sync was on or not, but they changed that a while back.

    So to see the data sets you need to create a new data file (it can be with no accounts) and turn the Sync on there.  From there you can use the above article's instructions to not only see the data sets, but also delete all, but the one connected to the data file you are in.

    Because you are restoring your existing data file you in fact should only see that one (and of course the new one you are in).  Certainly if there are more there that aren't connected to your two data files then you should delete them.  But you can even delete the one associated with your original data file.  It will be recreated when you do One Step Update in that original data file.

    It is possible that might clean up the "phantom data sets".  It might not, unfortunately this is an area that Quicken Inc doesn't tell us users anything about.  To the point where the "too many data sets" error comes up the only thing people have been told is "only Quicken support can fix that".  And there have been people reporting back that in fact they don't know how to fix it.
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  • oldngrmpy1
    oldngrmpy1 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard spot. I will ponder your idea with about 10 backups on 10 different USB drives if I try it.  Would you give it a try if it were you? I suppose as long as I have good off PC backups I don't have much to loose, I do use Express Web Connect. Ironically a year or so ago one of the super users made the statement that he would never use the "Auto" download methods, he moves all his transactions manually. That made a loud statement to me, and stuck with me! I have data on about 15 Accounts, about half all the way back to 2004. I am diligent about PC updates and Quicken updates also with Win 10 & newly renewed subscription to Qkn Deluxe. I've had enough issues in my transactions over the years that I now annotate on the last day of the month, the closing amount of that account from my bank statement in the memo field so I can check easily where the problem is if I come up with a missing or duplicate transaction. Thanks for the ideas Chris...all you guys are great...a lot of times even better than support!
    Current Windows 10, Current Qkn Deluxe Win Subscription, Sync turned OFF
  • splasher
    splasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    @TJ102
    I have asked @Quicken Sarah to look into this.  Hopefully she will provide an answer.
    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  Subscription  -  Win10
    -also older versions as needed for testing
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Quicken Sarah
    Quicken Sarah Administrator, Moderator mod
    Hello @TJ102

    Thank you for taking the time to share the details of this issue with the community, although I apologize for any frustration or inconvenience experienced.

    I took the liberty of reviewing your recent contacts with Support, the previously posted comments and your internal profile information to better understand what is happening and why the Dataset Limit exceeded error is persisting.

    Unfortunately, the information provided by the Support Agents is correct, when a backup copy of a data file is restored, a new dataset id is created.

    This specific error is part of new security features that have been implemented and other than contacting Support each time this error is received, there is not a way to bypass or override the error without the assistance of Support, I apologize.

    However, I can suggest a change in workflow which should resolve this error from occurring quite so often, or even at all.

    From the last phone contact I reviewed, I understand that you have two computers and regularly move a backup copy of your data file between the computers.

    Instead of creating and restoring a backup version of your data file, I would recommend creating a copy of the data file (File > File Operations > Copy) and opening the copied version of the file on the second computer.

    A copied file retains the same dataset id so when the copied file is opened, a new dataset is not created and you should no longer receive an error about exceeding the dataset limit.

    This process change would not replace your normal backup process though, and I would highly recommend continuing to create regular backups of your data file for those just-in-case scenario's.  As long as you are not regularly restoring backup copies of your data file, the dataset exceeded error should no longer occur.

    I hope this information is helpful and please let us know if there are further questions/concerns that the community may assist with.

    Thank you again,

    Sarah
  • oldngrmpy1
    oldngrmpy1 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Hi @splasher
    I guess this whole thing is part of a newer more secure plan to protect a users privacy in their data.  All a great idea except that I feel a user should be able to control some of those datasets themselves by deleting what they want and keeping what they want, thus being able to control their data set sizes themselves. As always with Quicken, I've continually tried to work around obstacles Quicken has presented with their changes, updates, and improvements, many of which just create more of the same. A question I have about this very subject, which cannot be fixed ...I'm am locked out and must call in before I can do a restore. I can't help but think Quicken didn't think this security change before implementing it, as I believe that information that needs to be secure, should also be controlled, and I can't help to think that this one is without the control. I believe MY information that Quicken deems necessary to keep secure, should also be able to be changed or deleted, and in many cases by the owner of that information, but is not here, and this will turn on Quicken and bite them when they realize that they don't have exclusive rights, to keep, store or deleted my personal data as they see fit. If I ask for all or parts of my personal information I expect them to to be able to do what I ask regarding that! Though I can't afford it...I smell a lawsuit in the offing.... If I had had information about my private information being tied up because of something that I did accidently, then I ask why is that information about what I did to basically lock my account out forever, not written about in tips or whatever. This whole thing will eventually snowball into a big mess for Quicken over time, as I suspect I will not be the only one to ever experience this. Even Windows has restore points that users can go into, delete the ones they want or all of them without bringing their whole restore system to it's knees.

    So I have this question for you as I think of a possible work around.  What would happen if I closed my Quicken account, ordered a new subscription, ( as a new user or restore an old file user), is there a way all my datasets can be deleted, but I can use a backup off an external storage device and add those files to a new Quicken account and be where I left off without being Dataset locked. Do you know the the ramifications, the ins and outs of trying to do that? I suspect there's more than I'm aware of as far as idiosyncrasies then I suspect. If that can be done, others  may start doing the same, which could create more chaos for Quicken, than fixing this broken system! Why can't support just go in to datasets and delete all but the current one being used to keep you going, and just do so because I ask them too, or why can't the oldest be made to just automaticall fall off and delete after say 3 months, like deleting unused payees after 3 months if we choose?
    Current Windows 10, Current Qkn Deluxe Win Subscription, Sync turned OFF
  • splasher
    splasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    I have no idea for sure what would happen if you start a new subscription with a different username/password (QID).  The data set id information is likely to be the same, but I have know idea if that would have any effect on the data sets.  It seems like it would, but maybe @Quicken Sarah could find out for us.
    I do see one thing to add to Q-Sarah's suggested use of the File->File Operations->Copy process.  Since you are doing this to move the file between computers (A & B), you could have the data file on A named something like QData-A and the file on B as QData-B.  That way when you copied the file, you would give it the name of the computer it was going to.  The backups that you also made would identify which computer they came from which would be an added bonus.  After the file was created/copied, then you would just overwrite the existing file on the destination computer.

    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  Subscription  -  Win10
    -also older versions as needed for testing
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • oldngrmpy1
    oldngrmpy1 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, but in doing so (Save a file Copy and renaming), I believe that in itself would create a Dataset, thus I'm locked out and have to call. That's the idea behind this new "Security "model, to locate and close the holes to the data. Right? See I'm doing the same,  looking for work arounds, but if Quicken did ALL there homework on this "Security" feature, there won't be any holes, and If you and I find one, that means our data, is at risk because they didn't do the homework .Right?
    Current Windows 10, Current Qkn Deluxe Win Subscription, Sync turned OFF
  • splasher
    splasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    But according to what @Quicken Sarah suggested, doing the copy should not be an issue by causing new datasets being created.
    Hopefully, she will come back with some more information about your new QID idea.
    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  Subscription  -  Win10
    -also older versions as needed for testing
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • oldngrmpy1
    oldngrmpy1 Member ✭✭✭✭
    This whole thing reminds me of the infamous Ford Pinto as an analogy. Imagine you owned one  (I owned 5 of them and still wish I could buy another, you could drive them for 200k miles and never do anything to them except put gas in) They were good little cars, did most the things you needed, but Ford comes along, recalls them all, takes all the 10 gallon gas tanks out and replaces them with1 gallon tanks to protect you in the case of a rear end collision, they also take out the gas guages because that could create a spark that could ignite the gas in the new 1 gal tank that leak fumes and they don't know why. So now you can drive a little , but not too much, because you don't really know how much gas you have to get you where you want to go, but don't worry  they are giving free roadside service because of all the problems, to help make the new problem in the new tank less of a problem. They'll bring you out a new 1 gallon of gas for your tank, the call us toll free and it'll only take about an hour of your time. it won't be a problem. Just ALWAYS be aware that can't drive the car as far as you want, but if you do and you're out of gas we'll be there in a jiffy to help you out. Just remember to not drive so far as you need more gas, and be patient if you do. This is all for your own safety! Oh yes keep in mind if you run out of gas too many times it will cause the fuel pump to go out...So all is well, just be careful, plan short trips, be patient if you need extra gas, don't take a wrong turn if you don't know where your going!  I'm  looking for some humor here...there's got to be some around here somewhere! If car won' start after refill, we forgot to tell you it needs to be premium gas, but some of the gas got mixed with regular, but if you don't really have any place need to be we'll take good safe care of you and your car! We've done all we can do in thinking through this inconvenience, and are sure you'll agree that we've done all we could. What else could a Pinto owner ask for?
    Current Windows 10, Current Qkn Deluxe Win Subscription, Sync turned OFF
  • Quicken Sarah
    Quicken Sarah Administrator, Moderator mod
    Hello @TJ102

    I've sent you a private message with more information, but to answer the question for other Users who are following this thread.

    Creating a new Quicken ID and opening the same data file would temporarily resolve this error because there is not any other datasets associated with that new Quicken ID.  However, this effect would be temporary as continuing to restore backup copies of your files will eventually meet the threshold to trigger the dataset exceeded error again.  

    Additionally, in order to have access to online services such as downloading transactions, your current subscription associated with your current Quicken ID would need to be refunded and a new subscription would have to be purchased under the new Quicken ID, which would still require the assistance of Quicken Support and may end up being more troublesome in the end. 

    If you do have any additional questions or concerns, please reply to the private message, found in your community inbox



    Thank you,

    Sarah
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    Accepted Answer
    Well this means that the advice people have been giving for years on how to work with two machines (backup and restore) needs to be change.

    Personally when I think about this the more I get the feeling that it is a sign of a flawed syncing system.  That system has been showing its ugly head a lot lately.
    Signature:
    (I'm always using the latest Quicken Windows Premier subscription version)
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  • oldngrmpy1
    oldngrmpy1 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Does "Save a copy as" create a new Dataset? I like to rename the files so I can annotate things that I have changed in the file, and track it that way as apposed to always using the dates. I suspect it does. The suspecting reason I suddenly created so many datasets is because I was doing so much cut and pasting trying to merge my two Visa accounts, that after so many transactions going back to 2004, again I think that is what caused it, not moving a file to another PC as I do that very seldom. Again though I want to try to share what I observed when this happened, so others can learn from it too. My concern is that not using Mobile, I had  "Sync"  toggled OFF (Edit>Preferences>Mobile and Web), however, when I did certain operations even with Sync turned OFF, I would always see that long 3 line notification about syncing to the cloud.....so I ask myself "Why would I see a message like that if I had Sync OFF?"  If Idevelopers could identify certain datasets as absolutely necessary to be kept for the file, and allow others that are just informational to be allowed to drop off (using first in first out), that the dataset file could exist indefinitely without filling up, with old file information dropping off as new file information is created. The other important issue is the one to identify if an operation that was being used to create so many, and why was user doing that. In my case I believe it was my trying to merge my accounts with so much cut and pasting. I here want to mention the importance of keeping pertinent tip and help procedures in Qkn up to date and workable, reason being that Qkn has changed sooo much since 2017 when the procedure in either Tips or Qkn University on "Merging Files" was somehow not usable. I'd like to suggest that a review on the "merging files" article with a 2017 date on it be to be sure if others use it with the current 2020 subscription it's still okay to use in 2020 and will work. I under- stand that some of the issues sometimes can be unsurmountable but without "clean" information on how Quicken works and how to use it properly the issues will just exacerbate themselves until they become a problem. I can be a complainer, but I also want to be a contributor1
    Current Windows 10, Current Qkn Deluxe Win Subscription, Sync turned OFF
  • oldngrmpy1
    oldngrmpy1 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Geoff I don't thinks it's "flawed", but rather outdate, and with the advent of so much security required for our information now days we need to take a different approach. Bill Gates said 10 years that we'd have to start using 2 Factor Authentication in order to eliminate the security holes we find now. Everybody balked at the idea, and just put it on the back burner. Now I use it for Amazon, my CU, all kinds of things with an immediate code i get immediately in my iPhone sitting right next to me as I work. It is not inconvenient or burdensome, it's apart of current day life as we know it now. This will have to be incorporated into Quicken soon, and I'd have to suspect it is in process as we speak. I don't think there's an alternative to accessing our private information AND keep it safe as well. We'll see! This is exactly what this issue is about!
    Current Windows 10, Current Qkn Deluxe Win Subscription, Sync turned OFF
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    Even though you put in "Geoff" I think your last comment was to me since you said "flawed".  And from your comment before that throws up a lot of red flags for me so I'm going to comment on it too.

    First on the "flawed" I'm talking about the syncing between the Quicken Desktop data file and the Quicken Cloud account, not about how the transactions are fetched from the financial institution.  That is an entirely different can of worms.

    The sync between the Quicken Desktop data file and the Quicken Cloud account has caused deleted accounts, transactions becoming unreconciled, deleted memorized payees, and on and on.  That is flawed in my book.

    On you renaming data files and then doing things in them and such, this is dangerous!

    When a data file is created it gets a unique Id.  There isn't any way to change that unique Id.  This unique Id is used to "connect" to the Quicken cloud data account.  This what is suppose to let it know that the two are connected and can be synced.
    If you make a copy of the data file and make changes it it.  Now you have two data files with different data in them, but as far as the syncing system is concerned they are the same data file.  If you now do an update in both of these data files you are going to "confuse" the sync system.

    The only way to get a data file with a new unique Id is: File -> New Quicken File

    As for other strange things happening even though you don't have "Sync on". Well The new "connection method" they are going to for Express Web Connect account means that you have "sync on" whether you flip on that option or not if you are using Express Web Connect for any accounts.

    See this:
    https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7882641/qcs-express-web-connect-is-cloud-sync

    And even though this is a Mac thread it might help you understand too:
    https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20137120/#Comment_20137120
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  • oldngrmpy1
    oldngrmpy1 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Though I'm not as well versed as you on all this, knowing what I know, I feel I can say  that there are probably better ways to do what's being done. I'm just a little nervous that there will be a security "hack", and someone will be taken to the cleaners, and I don't mean the one located between the liquor store and the supermarket with the "24 hr turn around time" sign in the window! This is why I will not put all my investments out there, pay bills out there, or use Mobile. I use my Quicken deluxe only as a checkbook register for that reason! There are just more holes in all this out there, to make it as secure as I'm comfortable with. Even my credit union just recently updated to a digital platform that is state of the art. I can't do anything online regarding my CU without using 2 Factor Authentication at least a couple 2 or 3 times per online visit, it's quick and easy though, even with that I'm nervous that Qkn can knock at their door and the door opens for them to my info. I check my transactions several times a day and have caught someone from somewhere else buying cell phones or other stuff 3 times the last year. I knew about it almost before that crooks could get out of the store. Funny thing is I often wonder how many of those transaction are even caught by the card holders. This is gonna happen more, with more people having to get new credit card accounts, thus requiring them to have more Qkn  CC accounts wanting to combine them into one.. That's where I got tripped up too. It's easier to get all your teeth pulled out get new implants, then you still have headaches, but not from the teeth if you're picking up what I'm laying down. Take a look at the process for merging files from the info in 2017 on Qkn University and tell me how well it will work in the current Qkn environment with the current platform. It's the American way... follow the money in an any business conglomeration and you'll usually find find a couple of CEO's that need to be taken care of first, then we know why we have to call out of the country to get help. There's no money left to fix the problems companies have anymore. Thanks for the links Chris, I'll check them out.

    All this may be changing soon as my new CU platform has the ability to offer a program that is basically Qkn Starter. My CU costs me $0 to have accounts (as a matter of fact I get paid a little interest on ea. every month) there are no fee if I don't bounce anything, I have bill pay through them with $0 charges.. which begs the question-why am I even here Chris, and to make it even harder to understand I "Just" renewed my subscription. Excuse me, I need to go take an aspirin for some unknow reason!
    Current Windows 10, Current Qkn Deluxe Win Subscription, Sync turned OFF
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