Why is Quicken slow to open?

msartwell
msartwell Member ✭✭
Why is Quicken slow to open? Support seems to think it is my file, but it does it with a new file, syncing to the web is turned off. i have a beefy computer, so it it not that. Why the seconds of a blank screen? See the video - https://youtu.be/1OUE9P7BRhE

Comments

  • Mark1104
    Mark1104 Member ✭✭✭✭
    did you ask Support what their expected launch time is as part of their design? I suspect part of this code is over 30 years old may be part of the issue.  

    Or maybe given the cost of squeezing out that 2-5 seconds far exceeds what they can afford for a product that sells for ~$70 per year.

    Note I did launch my large 270mg file and the white screen space lasts about 5 seconds.  Then I launched a new file I recently created - the white screen space lasts about 2 seconds.

    I feel like the past few realeases, esp. R33 and R34 increased the launch time.  No data, just what I 'feel' is occuring. 
  • msartwell
    msartwell Member ✭✭
    I suspect the old code is the culprit. They have definitely gotten more money out of me with the subscription model. I really hope updating the GUI is on the roadmap. I feel like it is re-compiling the whole program every time I start it.
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    If you are using a relatively recent GPU and driver on Windows 10, you may want try setting Quicken to High Performance on Windows Graphics Settings:



    Note:  The delay on the initial launch is likely due to latency as Quicken does issue multiple network requests.
  • msartwell
    msartwell Member ✭✭
    The graphics settings did not help, why does it need to use the network when I have that turned off? Even if I unplug my cat 5, it has no effect.
  • UKR
    UKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    msartwell said:
    The graphics settings did not help, why does it need to use the network when I have that turned off? Even if I unplug my cat 5, it has no effect.

    Are your computer's network connections totally disabled (Ethernet unplugged at the computer AND WiFi turned off / in Airplane Mode) before you start Quicken?
  • msartwell
    msartwell Member ✭✭
    yes, no network connection at all, and the desktop does not have wifi.
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    msartwell said:
    The graphics settings did not help, why does it need to use the network when I have that turned off? Even if I unplug my cat 5, it has no effect.
    Unless you have actually disabled the network adapter, any program using the network may wait on a response.
  • msartwell
    msartwell Member ✭✭
    Good suggestion, but disabling the adapter did not help.
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    msartwell said:
    Good suggestion, but disabling the adapter did not help.
    Does the issue reproduce with Windows booted in Safe mode?
  • msartwell
    msartwell Member ✭✭
    been a while since I had to use safe mode, but the issue was still there. It seemed a little bit faster, but that may be because of the much lower resolution of the screen. I noticed that when resizing the quicken window it was very slow.
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    msartwell said:
    been a while since I had to use safe mode, but the issue was still there. It seemed a little bit faster, but that may be because of the much lower resolution of the screen. I noticed that when resizing the quicken window it was very slow.
    If the issue persists in safe mode, its likely inherit in the initialization of the program.  
  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    By any chance, do you have Q set to do One Step Update whenever you open the file?  That could easily account for delays.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription, Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • BK
    BK Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    I would like to test my understanding please:  I reviewed the posted video twice and noted the lower video timeline bar showing 0:04 > 0:09 and then 0:33 > 0:38 for opening Quicken.  So it took ~5 seconds total in both instances, correct or did I miss something?  What is the improvement/goal we would like to achieve?
    If I were to reinstall Windows from scratch and only install Quicken on the fresh system, I can probably shave off couple of seconds until the OS bloats up again with various programs, Antivirus', windows security patches, running processes, etc.
    (edited to correct the timeline from 0:4 to 0:04)
    - QWin Deluxe user since 2010, US subscription on Win11
    - I don't use Cloud Sync, Mobile & Web, Bill Pay/Mgr

  • msartwell
    msartwell Member ✭✭
    BK - yes you are correct on the timings. And yes, I normally reinstall windows every year or so and it does the same. Where do I disable one-step update?
  • msartwell
    msartwell Member ✭✭
    This is the only program that does this, but why? Is it the 30 year old code? Is it my two nvidia cards? Is someone from quicken development reading this? Does it not like 2560x144x2?
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    msartwell said:
    BK - yes you are correct on the timings. And yes, I normally reinstall windows every year or so and it does the same. Where do I disable one-step update?
    Uncheck Download transactions when Quicken starts preference: select Edit > Preferences...



    You may also want to disable animations and sounds:



    msartwell said:
    This is the only program that does this, but why? Is it the 30 year old code? Is it my two nvidia cards? Is someone from quicken development reading this? Does it not like 2560x144x2?
    Why would someone from Quicken development be reading this exchange in a user to user forum?

    I doubt it's because the Quicken code base is over 30 years old but Quicken does appear to manage its own windows and doesn't play well with multiple displays.
  • msartwell
    msartwell Member ✭✭
    Both preferences were set as Sherlock suggested. Is anyone else having these OCDish issues?
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    If you ask me the start time falls well within the "normal" range.

    The first thing to understand is that Quicken has "two parts".  A "fake" main window, and then the guts of the program displayed in it.  They do the fake main window so that they can put these non standard controls where there isn't any support for in the normal window title bar.


    So the fake main window comes up very fast (at least in comparison to anything else in Quicken).
    Once it is up they start the actual reading of the data file, which has to be uncompressed, and fill in the rest of the GUI/data.

    I timed my machine and the lag is about 3 seconds.  I count 4 seconds on your video for the first startup.
    As for why some of the startups are faster, it most likely has to do with Windows caching for the data file (and maybe the config files).

    Note the data file size doesn't seem to be a big factor.  I opened a much smaller data file and it might have been slightly faster.  I think that is sort of due to the way the Windows file system works.  As in "opens" are much slower than "reads".  This is because as it is opening a file it has to do all the bookkeeping and it starts to cache it.  Unless the file is really big most likely it gets completely cached almost as soon as it is opened.

    I think the main driver of this time is how fast your disk is.  We have seen reports of really bad performance with some GPUs (the faster ones tend to have this problem more than the "common" ones), but that would a much bigger hit and probably throughout the program.

    And I agree with @Sherlock's assessment that most likely the "behavior" (or lack of it) of its windows "work" is due them trying to override standard Windows "window behavior".  And maybe some old code thrown in like the code that check size of the display is clearly only looking at the main display for the size when it should be looking at the one Quicken is running on (old code didn't know about multiple displays).
    Signature:
    (I'm always using the latest Quicken Windows Premier subscription version)
    This is my website: http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    I decided to try some of the things suggested in this thread.
    1. Change Graphics performance preference.  No change noticed.
    2. Disable network adapter.  Startup time went from 3 seconds to 2.
    Signature:
    (I'm always using the latest Quicken Windows Premier subscription version)
    This is my website: http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/
  • msartwell
    msartwell Member ✭✭
    I copied my 17MB qdf file to a RAM drive, and it made no appreciable difference.
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    msartwell said:
    I copied my 17MB qdf file to a RAM drive, and it made no appreciable difference.
    Personally I have never had much luck using a RAM drive to speed things up, especially for relatively small files.  Slowness seems to be in the Windows file system for opening the file, not in the caching system.  And the file caching system is huge these days, megabytes is nothing to it.

    RAM drives are basically not attacking the underline problem that is causing the slowness.  They are just double buffering something that is pretty fast.

    If you want to see the problem I'm talking about take your biggest data file and copy it.
    Now find a directory using about the same disk space made up of small files and copy that.

    My system can copy a 1GB Zip file in the blink of an eye.
    Copying a 600 MB directory with lots of small files took 10 seconds.

    Looking at the Resource Monitor/Disk while Quicken starts shows lots of DLLs and configuration files being read in.
    Signature:
    (I'm always using the latest Quicken Windows Premier subscription version)
    This is my website: http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/
  • BK
    BK Member ✭✭✭✭
    5 seconds to open and have a working application is within a normal range.  Cheers all.
    - QWin Deluxe user since 2010, US subscription on Win11
    - I don't use Cloud Sync, Mobile & Web, Bill Pay/Mgr

  • msartwell
    msartwell Member ✭✭
    When everything else is 1/4 of a second, I think it is a problem.
  • Mark1104
    Mark1104 Member ✭✭✭✭
    @msartwell- what is the alternative? 

    I wouldn't be surprised if Quicken thinks the same way.... :-) 
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    msartwell said:
    When everything else is 1/4 of a second, I think it is a problem.
    If this is really a problem for you, I suggest you stop using Quicken.
    Because there is zero chance that the Quicken developers are going to completely rewrite Quicken, with most likely changes in the design like instead of using so many config files use the registry.  And that is what it would take to get you 1/4 startup time, and even then it might not be a fair comparison, as in the way that might be achieved is just delaying some of the startup processing to later in the background to give you the impression that it is doing more than what it really is.

    BTW here is a thread where I asked people about the performance they were getting, which includes some start up times.  You will notice that the start times people listed are all slower than yours.  My current start times are faster because I'm on a new machine.  

    And probably this most important part:



    https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7878526/how-does-your-quicken-windows-performance-compare
    Signature:
    (I'm always using the latest Quicken Windows Premier subscription version)
    This is my website: http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/
  • msartwell
    msartwell Member ✭✭
    edited July 2021
    I could always try [removed], I guess. Been using quicken since the dos days.
  • Mark1104
    Mark1104 Member ✭✭✭✭
    @msartwell - that is my point.... unless Quicken sees customer leaving 'in droves' over 5 seconds, they are not apt to do anything.   My sense from this community board is avererage users have been using Quicken for 20-30 years; are they REALLY going to change software packages????? 
This discussion has been closed.