Checking Account is now negative in my Net Worth report

jimshu1
jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
I only run this report once a month. For 3/31/22, my checking account shows up as a negative figure. I've read dozens of posts on a payroll split error, but when I check all of my paycheck entries the splits are correct. The payroll future reminders also have the correct splits.

If I pick a month and expand the checking account to show all entries for that month, the bottom totals of Inflows vs Outflows provide a net total that is positive, yet the report shows the figure as a negative.

My registers are all correct, as are all of my dozens of spending reports. I believe only my net worth reports are affected or am I missing other problems?

Thanks for any replies!
Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

- Jim S.

Comments

  • Quicken Jared
    Quicken Jared Moderator mod
    jimshu1 said:
    I only run this report once a month. For 3/31/22, my checking account shows up as a negative figure. I've read dozens of posts on a payroll split error, but when I check all of my paycheck entries the splits are correct. The payroll future reminders also have the correct splits.

    If I pick a month and expand the checking account to show all entries for that month, the bottom totals of Inflows vs Outflows provide a net total that is positive, yet the report shows the figure as a negative.

    My registers are all correct, as are all of my dozens of spending reports. I believe only my net worth reports are affected or am I missing other problems?

    Thanks for any replies!
    Hello @jimshu1,       

    I am sorry to hear about this issue with account balances. Thank you for reaching out to the Quicken Community in regards to this problem.

    What is the financial institution associated with the checking account, and is it connected to online banking services? If so, are you also noticing large differences between your online balance in the Reconcile window and the balance shown on your bank's online profile?

    Lastly, have you tried restoring from a backup prior to last month (or when you first noticed this issue to have occurred)? You can do this anytime by going to File > Restore a Backup File... in the upper menu at the top of the screen. Given that you have been regularly saving backups by going to File > Copy or Backup File... in the upper menu at the top of the screen, there should be a recent backup available that will enable you to determine whether or not this behavior is persisting from a recently backed up data file.

    I look forward to hearing more from you about this. 

    Thank you,

    Quicken Jared 
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    Running Version 39.23.

    The Checking account is with PNC and it reconciles accurately with the online balance. The registry for the Checking account is correct.

    I do not have a backup prior to 3/11/22. That one is qdata-R-39.21-2022-03-12.QDF-backup. Even if I did, I wouldn't want to try to replicate over a month's worth of entries.

    Why is this happening? All paycheck type entries are correct, including their splits.

    If I delete the Checking account from the Networth report, and then add the checking account balance for the date I want back in manually, I get an accurate value within a few cents compared to a spreadsheet I keep on Networth the end of each month. If the Networth report is my only issue, I would never restore a backup and try to manually recreate over a month's worth of entries, account transfers, etc.

    If supposedly this "bug" has been fixed, why wouldn't my latest entries be correct? Thanks.
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    I did do a Validate on a second system with the same data file. It did not correct the problem.

    I can't help but believe this is a continuing bug, not a corrupted data file due to a previous update. I've spent a couple of hours looking at everything and it's all correct. No paycheck/split corruption. No discrepancies in anything I look at.

    I'm just going manually do my Net Worth report by excluding the Checking account and manually add in the register value at the date I want the report.
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • Quicken Jared
    Quicken Jared Moderator mod
    jimshu1 said:
    I did do a Validate on a second system with the same data file. It did not correct the problem.

    I can't help but believe this is a continuing bug, not a corrupted data file due to a previous update. I've spent a couple of hours looking at everything and it's all correct. No paycheck/split corruption. No discrepancies in anything I look at.

    I'm just going manually do my Net Worth report by excluding the Checking account and manually add in the register value at the date I want the report.
    @jimshu1,    

    Thank you for continuing to reach out and bring me further information. I am sorry to hear that this problem remains unresolved, for the moment. 

    I did have a couple of additional questions. Is there anything abnormal about any Opening Balance transactions in your account register? Also, where is your current active data file located? You can check this anytime by going to File > Show this file on my computer... in the upper menu at the top of the screen.

    I hope to hear more from you in the future.

    Thank you,

    Quicken Jared 
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    I appreciate the interest and reply.

    All Opening Balance transactions in the Checking account and a sampling of investment accounts are correct. No discrepancies.

    My active data file is at C:\Users\username\Documents\Quicken\qdata.QDF.

    By the way, my new method of running the Networth report by deleting the Checking account from it, running it for several end of month dates (i.e. 1/31/22, 2/28/22, etc.), and then manually adding the Checking account register balance for the date back in is 100% accurate. I compared it to the Networth values I had previous entered into my EXCEL spreadsheet I keep on Networth at the end of each month. I used this method to get my 3/31/22 Networth value.

    Thank you.
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • Quicken Jared
    Quicken Jared Moderator mod
    jimshu1 said:
    I appreciate the interest and reply.

    All Opening Balance transactions in the Checking account and a sampling of investment accounts are correct. No discrepancies.

    My active data file is at C:\Users\username\Documents\Quicken\qdata.QDF.

    By the way, my new method of running the Networth report by deleting the Checking account from it, running it for several end of month dates (i.e. 1/31/22, 2/28/22, etc.), and then manually adding the Checking account register balance for the date back in is 100% accurate. I compared it to the Networth values I had previous entered into my EXCEL spreadsheet I keep on Networth at the end of each month. I used this method to get my 3/31/22 Networth value.

    Thank you.
    Hello @jimshu1

    I appreciate the update and the answers to my questions. I apologize that our resolution is still unclear, as of now. 

    I recommend copying the data file in question. Please note that doing so will disconnect all online services in the copied file and you will need to sign back in with your Quicken ID and reconnect up all of your online accounts, online billers, Quicken Bill Manager services, etc if you plan to use that copied file going forward as the new copy also creates a new and separate dataset ID. I will provide the detailed instructions for copying a data file below, if you are still interested.

    Be sure to save a backup once more, then go back into the same menu and select Copy or Backup File... once again. This time, please select Create a copy or template and click Next. After this, click Save Copy and then select New Copy in the next window that appears. 

    I hope to hear back from you once again about this, should you have the chance to drop by and speak with us once more.

    Thank you,

    Quicken Jared 
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    I've gone through your steps and created a new complete copy of my active data file on a secondary system. Loading Quicken with it and trying the Networth report with the Checking account added back in did not correct the issue. The Checking account still shows up as a negative figure.

    Thanks for suggestion.
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • miklk
    miklk SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    I strongly believe you have the paycheck split bug even though it looks OK. The net worth wrong on that account is a sure sign. 

    You can test a little by going to an old paycheck in register and open the split. Then just enter it and see if net worth changes after doing that. 

    I was having success on recreating paychecks when I gave up due to too many but it may be possible. 
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    The entries on all of my old paychecks are correct. Do you mean to just delete and reenter the same values and enter?? 
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • miklk
    miklk SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    It doesn't matter that they "appear" correct. That bug caused data problems . If you just edit the split by finding a paycheck entry and editing the split by changing something and save the edited entry, it will re-write that entry and you can check if net worth report has changed. There really is no way to be sure file is fixed if it is that problem other than finding an old backup (dropbox, onedrive, any other place you may have saved one from before Mar 4.

    If you observe that net worth report is changing when you edit paychecks, it is possible that editing or recreated all of those entries could be a fix if really can't find a backup.
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    After backing up my active data file, I changed all paycheck splits for two months. Added the Checking account back into the Networth report, but no joy. The Checking account still shows up as a negative figure.

    Again, everything else is correct. All registers, all reports except Networth. My workaround of running the Networth report without the Checking account, then manually adding the Checking account register value for that date back into the Networth Report total is 100% accurate.

    I can live with that. Who knows, maybe there is a fix down the road.
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    I thought this was interesting enough to share. I created an Account Balance report from Quickens Standard Report list and customized it to only show my Checking account. That way, I can easily periodically check whether or not anything changed on the account balance showing up as being a negative.

    Below is a screenshot of several months back in 2008. The balance only turned negative in October of 2008. It was positive all the way back to 1996. No clue as to why, but thought it was interesting...   ;)


    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12
    I'd focus in on October 2008 and see if I could identify why that EOM amount went negative.  That might provide some insight into what happened in succeeding months.
    You'll probably need your old statements to research this.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription, Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the reply!

    Nothing happened. The Checking account register shows a positive balance of $1,169.13 for the 10/31/18 date.
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    Running Quicken for Windows Subscription, version R40.13, build 27.1.40.13

    I had previously posted on this related subject. I just can't seem to give up on what is wrong.

    In summary, I have deleted all paycheck entries for the last two months, including their Income Reminders. I then recreated them with Paycheck Wizard. My checking account register is correct.

    I then went to Quickens generic report menu and chose "Net Worth & Balances" / "Account Balances". I customized the report to only show my checking account, and then only for the last two months. Both are negative when the actual account balances for both months at month-end were positive.

    I read all of the posts on some kind of bug introduced in a previous update but thought re-creating the paycheck entries was supposed to solve it.

    Thanks for any replies!
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem introduced in early March with R39.17 and R39.21 did not just affect paychecks entered after you installed one of those releases, it often damaged paychecks going back many years.

    If you are experiencing this problem, I recommend that you follow the procedure described here
    https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7912649/paycheck-corruption-problem

    There is no need to customize the built in reports to see if you have the problem. Do not try to take any shortcuts.
    QWin Premier subscription
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    To keep it simple, I should re-enter all paycheck wizard entries back to 3/1/22? This gets me right going forward>
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry Jim, you have it wrong. Please read and follow the detailed instructions I linked. If you are experiencing this problem, you need to restore a backup from before 3/4/22 and re-enter ALL the transactions since then.
    QWin Premier subscription
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks. No way, if I had caught it sooner, maybe. Unbelievable! A 25 year old database corrupted by Quickens own updates. And no early warning sent out to subscribers? Unbelievable… It still shocks me. Surely there are repercussions! I sure regret renewing my subscription.

    I backup my database daily and keep a 30 day history. I can’t go back to what you suggest. I’m done with Q.
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 3
    I agree Quicken did a poor to non-existent job of alerting customers to this problem. 

    But Quicken is supposed to make an automatic backup of your data file just before it installs an update.

    Look in the BACKUP folder under the folder where you keep your Quicken data file. 

    If your data file is MyData.QDF and you were running R38.30 and you installed R39.17 on March 5, then hopefully you will see a file called
    MyData-R-38.30-2022-03-05.QDF-backup

    You should be able to restore that file.
    QWin Premier subscription
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks for your replies. No way. Just fortunate that I have a manual workaround for the effected Net Worth reports. I don’t use Quicken as an import source for tax data. 
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    One other thing - some users report that when their data has been corrupted by this bug, running a Validate and Repair causes a crash and makes things worse. You might want to save a backup and test this so you will know not to do that.
    QWin Premier subscription
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks. I already saved a backup and did a validation. It didn’t crash Q.
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.
  • jimshu1
    jimshu1 Member ✭✭✭
    I appreciate whoever combined my posts on this topic.

    Just FYI:

    I spent several hours today, out of curiosity, exploring my upgrade-corrupted Quicken data file. It messed up more than I thought, but nothing too important.

    The "bug" took my latest paycheck split wizard entry from late 2011 and applied that split back to October 2008. It didn't change the registries, but it changed any of the spilt categories in Reports.

    So, net worth, checking, tax, or any other "split" category report is no longer valid in reports before January 2012. The registries are fine. Luckily, I maintain spreadsheets on most of the categories effected.

    My biggest aggravation is the negative checking account that will just be that way forever, even though the registry, luckily, is correct.
    Quicken for Windows. A user for decades. Latest subscription version.

    - Jim S.