Balance maintenance in checking

I pay all my monthly and daily expenses with a cash back credit card, usually charging about $2500 - $3000 per month. I pay that balance on the card's statement date out of my checking that has about four income sources. So, while reminders can show me what I'll have in my checking on a given day in the future, they don't reflect how the card balance will impact that.

I'd like to see something like an Excel transaction where a cell in one sheet spreadsheet automatically updates and equals a cell in a separate sheet when it changes. So, when I put a transaction in my checking for the credit card, it will automatically update as my card balance increase during the month. Then, I'll see my actual future balance (checking balance less credit card balance) in my checking account.
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  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    You could click the "three dots" icon above your post and make the post an "idea" that can be voted upon by users and see if that gets any traction. 
    A "workaround" in the meantime would be a saved Net Worth report with only the checking Account and credit card Account selected, and an Interval of "Day."  Each time you'd run this special report you'd specify a "Date range" that reaches out into the future.  That would sweep up your projected income sources and any regular future credit card charges you might have scheduled (if any), and the "Overall Total" on the report should give you dollar amount you're looking for.
  • palopetes
    palopetes Member ✭✭
    Clicking 'three dots' doesn't get me an option to make the post an 'idea'; however, I would like to do that. New Post gets me 'New Discussion' or 'Ask a Question'. Three dots just gets 'Edit'. Clicking edit, I don't see an option to make this an 'idea'. Thanks for the workaround suggestion. But, if Excel can update one sheet from another sheet's entry automatically, you would think Quicken could update an entry in one account from another account's entry automatically. And, that could extend into budgeting as well.
  • Quicken Jasmine
    Quicken Jasmine Moderator mod
    Hello @palopetes and @Tom Young,

    I have turned this discussion thread into an idea post for you all. 

    I hope you are enjoying your weekend!
    -Quicken Jasmine
  • UKR
    UKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    How did you define the "pay credit card from checking" reminder?
    There are two possible methods you can try:
    Define the reminder as pay "Current credit card balance"
    or
    Define the reminder as "Previous payments" specifying a number of months. This calculates an average of the last [xx] payments, e.g., [6] months.
    Once you know what the next credit card payment will be, record the reminder early with the correct payment Due Date. The Projected Balances view over the next 3 months or so should show what your future checking account balance needs will be.
  • palopetes
    palopetes Member ✭✭
    "Once you know what the next credit card payment will be" requires me to wait until the statement is finalized to know what payment of the balance will be. That's what I'm doing now. What I'd like to see is a future, uncleared, transaction in the checking account updated with the credit card's new balance any time the card's balance is updated. So, if I download current transactions for the card, increasing the card's balance, the transaction in the checking account will reflect the new card balance without having to run a report or re-enter/adjust reminders.

    For example, if I've paid the balance on the card, the transaction amount in my checking account will be zero. When I download transactions to the credit card account, the transaction in my checking account (paying the credit card) will automatically reflect the increased amount.

    Manually, if I enter a transaction to pay the credit card current balance from the checking account, it will reflect in the credit card account; however, as the credit card balance increases, I have to manually change the transaction to reflect the increase. What I'm proposing is making an entry into the checking account for the statement date of the credit card for the ongoing balance. That balance should update as the credit card balance updates. The result will be the income reminders will reflect as future income and the proposed reminder will update and reflect as a future expense in the checking account, without having to go to another report.

    Excel does this; salesman A increase sales $1000 on spreadsheet A, salesman B increases sales $3000 on spreadsheet B, total sales in spreadsheet C reflect the increases totaling $4000. Each time the cell for A or B changes, the cell for C reflects the change.
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    This functionality already exists, at least up to what Quicken can do the estimate (and improving the estimate is what I think really needs to change, not the way this idea is suggesting).

    It doesn't do it the way you suggest, which I will argue is wrong, but it accomplishes what you want.

    You have stated that you want the transactions from the credit card to go into the register.  They do not belong there.  This is like the people that put in a one big split with all their transactions instead of using a credit card account.

    Instead, what is really happening is that your balance on your credit card is going up, and in the future, you will have to pay that as a transfer from the checking account to the credit card account.  Quicken can record that and show that balance.

    By selecting the clock icon, you can tell Quicken how far into the future you want to see reminders in the checking account.

    And as you can see below, these will reflect properly given that the reminder is correct.


    That brings us back to what @UKR mentioned, how to setup the reminder.
    Here are the choices for an estimate.


    I'm using the Current credit card balance.  This is basically what you are suggesting but done in the proper way.  Notice that the reminder for the payment is the current balance of the credit card.  As an extra example I will add a charge of $1000 to that credit card.


    As you can see, you can clearly use this to predict the cash flow in the checking account.  And note I use the projected balances for this instead of going and looking at the actual account.


    This is the proper way to do it, the future balance is adjusted, and it isn't clutter up with transactions that aren't supposed to be in the checking account in the first place.

    So, where is the problem about the estimate I mentioned?
    And note this would be the same problem your idea would have.

    If one was to pay their credit card balance on the day that the statement closes, this would work exactly right, but that isn't the case for most people.  Instead, you pay it on the payment due date, which is in the future.  And just to make it interesting, any returns aren't counted.

    So, if one uses the current balance and then it will keep getting larger until the payment is actually recorded.

    In other words, one of the most important things you want to predict is the payment amount, but in fact you can't know it exactly until the payment is made.  At the statement date it is the ending statement balance.  If you have a return, then it is now the statement balance minus that return.  Note that since the payment hasn't actually happened, yet the current balance of the credit card will not tell you the correct balance/payment amount.

    Ideally Quicken would know the statement ending date and provide a proper calculation for the payment using that balance and any returns, but that isn't the case right now.  The best compromise I have come up with is enter the reminder for the future payment on the statement date.  This locks the payment to the statement balance.  When the payment actually comes in, the two will be off by any refunds.
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  • palopetes
    palopetes Member ✭✭
    Maybe I need to clarify: I pay my monthly insurance, utilities and all miscellaneous expenses on the credit card, accumulating the balance until the statement date. I pay the credit card balance from my checking account. Both accounts download transactions from their source.

    My checking account has reminders for income sources and those few payments I make from the checking account, i.e., mortgage and car payments. So, each month, after entering the reminder transactions, I can see a 'future' net balance after income and those expenses. However, the net does not include what I will be paying on the credit card balance.

    I'm proposing that a reminder placed in the checking account have the option to reflect the continuing balance of the credit card account, i.e., if the credit card balance goes up, the payment from the checking account to the credit card also goes up. If, at time of payment, the paid amount differs from the balance, the correct payment amount is entered and the update ceases. The transactions from both institutions will eventually show cleared. The next reminder can then be entered that should reflect the new, current, balance.

    Using the Transfer reminder and Use Current Credit Card Balance, am I correct in saying the reminder set for a date in late may includes any 'reminder' charges set up for that account?
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24
    palopetes said:
    Using the Transfer reminder and Use Current Credit Card Balance, am I correct in saying the reminder set for a date in late may includes any 'reminder' charges set up for that account?
    I'm not following the "late" part of this statement.

    The reminder amount in the checking account will be the current amount of the credit card account up until it is entered into the register and then it will be a fixed amount.

    What I'm currently doing is setting the reminder to the current balance and to enter into the register 26 days before the payment date, which is "approximately" the statement date.

    EDIT: the reminder date is the payment date.  It is important that the reminder/actual transaction entered is dated on the actual day it will be paid so that the cash flow reported is correct.  But you need the amount from the statement date (and ideally minus the returns, but I just ignore that for cash flow and correct on the payment date by changing the payment amount in the register and matching to the downloaded payment).
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  • palopetes
    palopetes Member ✭✭
    Ref to 'late' May was to the usual statement date of the 20th of the month. I've set the reminder to the current balance as of 5/20 and it reflects the reminders in the card account thru that date. I'll just wait to see if that transaction amount in the checking adjusts as new charges come into the card account. Thanks to all for your input.
  • palopetes
    palopetes Member ✭✭
    Update: I entered a reminder transaction paying the credit card account from the checking account using the Current Credit Card Balance. The date of the expected transaction is 5/20 and it correctly picked up the expected balance showing on 5/20 as of the entry date. However, adding additional charges now does not increase that expected transaction.

    Ultimately, what I'd like to see: At the first of the month, enter a reminder to pay the credit card balance in full on the next statement date (5/20). When the reminder is entered on the first of the month, it picks up the credit card balance showing for 5/20 (based on current charges and other reminders, such as insurance and utility bills that will come due). Example: Credit card balance expected on 5/20 per charges to date and reminders yet to be paid for this month: $2500.00.

    That transaction amount for the statement balance payment should increase as the credit card balance increases until payment is made. Example: Groceries, $200.00; Fuel, $80.00, other daily charges, $800.00, increasing the transaction in the checking account by $1080 and reflecting the current charges in the credit card account, finally totaling $3580.00.

    This would require relating the scheduled reminder payment transaction in the checking account to the credit card balance relative to the reminder payment date; however, updating the checking account reminder transaction as the credit card balance changes. That is not happening even using the Current Credit Card Balance option.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    palopetes said:
    Update: I entered a reminder transaction paying the credit card account from the checking account using the Current Credit Card Balance. The date of the expected transaction is 5/20 and it correctly picked up the expected balance showing on 5/20 as of the entry date. However, adding additional charges now does not increase that expected transaction.
    ...
    I haven't confirmed all such behaviors, but I believe it may be necessary sometimes to generate a refreshed version of the display - sometimes changing accounts or views is sufficient,  Sometimes it seems to require a program exit / restart.  
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    q_lurker said:
    palopetes said:
    Update: I entered a reminder transaction paying the credit card account from the checking account using the Current Credit Card Balance. The date of the expected transaction is 5/20 and it correctly picked up the expected balance showing on 5/20 as of the entry date. However, adding additional charges now does not increase that expected transaction.
    ...
    I haven't confirmed all such behaviors, but I believe it may be necessary sometimes to generate a refreshed version of the display - sometimes changing accounts or views is sufficient,  Sometimes it seems to require a program exit / restart.  
    I encountered this bug too when testing for this.  I didn’t look into in detail, but I did notice that when I was manually entering things for the test I did have to restart Quicken to see it update the estimate.

    I think that one reason I never noticed this before was my workflow is like this.
    Start Quicken, do One Step Update, review transactions, reconcile accounts, check Home Screen for projected balances and “see where your money goes” to make sure I don’t have any uncategorized transactions.

    I think with all that activity before checking the projected balances it does get the estimate updated.
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  • palopetes
    palopetes Member ✭✭
    Tried the restart, change account screens, one-step update, etc., don't see the update of the transaction resulting from the posted reminder. I did notice that if I go in to edit the reminder(s) "Estimate amount for me" is OFF and, when I click change, it goes to "Fixed Amount" instead of "Current credit card balance". The balance is shows is correct, however. I believe what's happening is this: while the 'reminder' is still in queue, it appears to update, but when the reminder is actually entered, it becomes fixed transaction.

    What would be helpful is; at the first of each month I am able to enter the reminders of various income sources into the checking account. Those work now because they are static amounts and on particular dates. Then, I'd like to see a transaction in the checking account, paying the credit card account on the statement date (20th of each month). The transaction would start with the "Current credit card balance" and would change as the "Current credit card balance" increased until the transaction cleared as paid.

    The result would be an 'available' balance in the checking account taking into account income and anticipated credit card payment.

    Perhaps there is a report that would reflect this??
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    palopetes said:
    Tried the restart, change account screens, one-step update, etc., don't see the update of the transaction resulting from the posted reminder. I did notice that if I go in to edit the reminder(s) "Estimate amount for me" is OFF and, when I click change, it goes to "Fixed Amount" instead of "Current credit card balance". The balance is shows is correct, however. I believe what's happening is this: while the 'reminder' is still in queue, it appears to update, but when the reminder is actually entered, it becomes fixed transaction.

    What would be helpful is; at the first of each month I am able to enter the reminders of various income sources into the checking account. Those work now because they are static amounts and on particular dates. Then, I'd like to see a transaction in the checking account, paying the credit card account on the statement date (20th of each month). The transaction would start with the "Current credit card balance" and would change as the "Current credit card balance" increased until the transaction cleared as paid.

    The result would be an 'available' balance in the checking account taking into account income and anticipated credit card payment.

    Perhaps there is a report that would reflect this??
    There is well known issue with estimates for transfer reminders.  I suggest you use a bill reminder instead.
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    @Sherlock good information on the bug, I personally never use transfer reminders, never saw the need when you can just put in the [account] for the transfer in a bill/income reminder.
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  • palopetes
    palopetes Member ✭✭
    Coincidentally, I attempted to set up a bill reminder for Capitol One and it returned "Unable to update billers" on several attempts.
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    palopetes said:
    Coincidentally, I attempted to set up a bill reminder for Capitol One and it returned "Unable to update billers" on several attempts.
    I suggest you use a manual bill reminder if you want to set an estimate.
  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    I have some bill reminders set with  $0 .. so the reminder shows up and I just have to input the amount.
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  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27
    palopetes said:
    Coincidentally, I attempted to set up a bill reminder for Capitol One and it returned "Unable to update billers" on several attempts.
    Just so you know not only are online bills not very reliable if you set your bill to an online bill all the estimating functions go away and it just locks into whatever the financial institution says the bill is at any given time.  Sometimes that works good for getting your statement balance and in some cases it'll show you having a zero balance when the statement balance has closed or for the month.

    Edit:. and linking a reminder to online bill means that the date is controlled by that download of that information to
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