Change Default Location of Cash Used for Investment

The MergThe Merg Member ✭✭✭
edited May 2018 in
I am using Quicken 2012 H&B. I have a 529 account with American Funds that I download into Quicken via DirectConnect. As part of the setup for the account, I specified to manage the cash for the account in the account itself and to not use a separate account. However, whenever transactions are downloaded for this account, they go in as a BoughtX and the "Use cash for this transaction" is specified as a related cash account for the 529 that does not exist.

This messes up the cash balance for the 529 as while it is making a purchase for the specified amount, it shows it getting that money from the non-existent cash account. I then have to manually edit the transaction and change it to use cash from the account's cash balance.

Anyone know how I can change this so it defaults to that everytime?

Thanks,
Merg

Comments

  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    American funds is one who has always required Individual accounts for each fund held.  As such, it may well be that the transaction they prepare for the download follows the SMF style and assumes or forces the other cash account style.  If that is the case, it would seem your only options would be to get them to change their ways (difficult at best) or continue the manual editing.  

    HTH
  • The MergThe Merg Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    q.lurker said:

    American funds is one who has always required Individual accounts for each fund held.  As such, it may well be that the transaction they prepare for the download follows the SMF style and assumes or forces the other cash account style.  If that is the case, it would seem your only options would be to get them to change their ways (difficult at best) or continue the manual editing.  

    HTH

    Yeah, I actually have 8 accounts with American Funds, which is really 2 accounts with 4 funds each. What do you mean by the SMF style?

    I'm fine with doing the manual editing as it is easy to do. I don't even hit the Edit button for the transaction, I just edit the transaction in line and remove the "X" from the transaction type of "BoughtX" in order to fix it. While I haven't tried it, I suppose I could even just let it go a few months and then do a Find/Replace to take care of it as well.

    - Merg
  • volvogirlvolvogirl SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    q.lurker said:

    American funds is one who has always required Individual accounts for each fund held.  As such, it may well be that the transaction they prepare for the download follows the SMF style and assumes or forces the other cash account style.  If that is the case, it would seem your only options would be to get them to change their ways (difficult at best) or continue the manual editing.  

    HTH

    SMF = Single Mutual Fund.  It is a designation on Quicken, Look at the account properties (edit account) and see if the SMF box is yes or no.  If the account transaction list includes the column Share Balance it is a SMF (Single Mutual Fund) account.  If the last column is Cash Balance, it is a brokerage account. A Brokerage account can't show you the total share balance because it can have more than 1 fund in it.
  • The MergThe Merg Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    q.lurker said:

    American funds is one who has always required Individual accounts for each fund held.  As such, it may well be that the transaction they prepare for the download follows the SMF style and assumes or forces the other cash account style.  If that is the case, it would seem your only options would be to get them to change their ways (difficult at best) or continue the manual editing.  

    HTH

    Well, when viewing the Account Properties, it is listed as a Brokerage Account, however, I do have a Share Balance and Cash Balance columns. The Cash Balance is the right-most column and at the bottom of the register it has the total for Securities Value, Cash Balance, and Total Market Value. But, like mentioned above, since it is an account with American Funds, I need to have a separate account in Quicken for each fund.

    Is my account set up incorrectly in Quicken?

    - Merg
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    q.lurker said:

    American funds is one who has always required Individual accounts for each fund held.  As such, it may well be that the transaction they prepare for the download follows the SMF style and assumes or forces the other cash account style.  If that is the case, it would seem your only options would be to get them to change their ways (difficult at best) or continue the manual editing.  

    HTH

    What I was suggesting was the American Funds is assuming you have your AF accounts set up as SMF accounts, so AF is creating the required (by SMF rules) BoughtX (and SellX, DivX, etc) transactions.  It is not that you have anything 'wrong' with respect to Quicken.  You are just out-of-sorts with AF.
  • The MergThe Merg Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    q.lurker said:

    American funds is one who has always required Individual accounts for each fund held.  As such, it may well be that the transaction they prepare for the download follows the SMF style and assumes or forces the other cash account style.  If that is the case, it would seem your only options would be to get them to change their ways (difficult at best) or continue the manual editing.  

    HTH

    Gotcha. So is there any way I can set up Quicken so that it will see that it should be doing Bought transactions and not BoughtX or is that all on American Funds side so I am out of luck? I assume others have encountered this issue before.

    - Merg
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    q.lurker said:

    American funds is one who has always required Individual accounts for each fund held.  As such, it may well be that the transaction they prepare for the download follows the SMF style and assumes or forces the other cash account style.  If that is the case, it would seem your only options would be to get them to change their ways (difficult at best) or continue the manual editing.  

    HTH

    I do not know ow a way to automate your change.  

    I do not recall anyone raising this issue before.  I suspect most AF owners use the true SMF account structure that would require the BouightX transactions.  I suspect they still need to fill in the proper transfer account each time.  

    FWIW:  I think AF is too restrictive wth the one-account-per-fund limitation.
  • Howard RoarkHoward Roark Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    If you have a Cash Amt column in the investment account, the investment account can not be a Single Mutual Fund (SMF) account, and it can not have a linked checking account. Also you would not be able to change BoughtX transactions to Bought transactions in SMF accounts or accounts with a linked checking account.

    Linked checking accounts are not normally "hidden", though I suppose one could hide such an account. Presumably then, one could un-hide such an account.

    It might be that your financial institution is downloading transactions that involve cash in such a way that the transactions will not alter the cash balance in the Quicken investment account ... namely by categorizing the transactions as transfers back into the same investment account. That would create a BoughtX transaction that did not change the cash balance in *any* Quicken account.

    [Q2012 is the first Quicken version, I believe, to include the Share Balance column in all investment accounts.]
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016

    If you have a Cash Amt column in the investment account, the investment account can not be a Single Mutual Fund (SMF) account, and it can not have a linked checking account. Also you would not be able to change BoughtX transactions to Bought transactions in SMF accounts or accounts with a linked checking account.

    Linked checking accounts are not normally "hidden", though I suppose one could hide such an account. Presumably then, one could un-hide such an account.

    It might be that your financial institution is downloading transactions that involve cash in such a way that the transactions will not alter the cash balance in the Quicken investment account ... namely by categorizing the transactions as transfers back into the same investment account. That would create a BoughtX transaction that did not change the cash balance in *any* Quicken account.

    [Q2012 is the first Quicken version, I believe, to include the Share Balance column in all investment accounts.]

    I thnk NWJ is picking up on the statement you made in your opening post:  "the 'Use cash for this transaction' is specified as a related cash account for the 529 that does not exist." -- a statement I conveniently chose to ignore and a nuance I cannot explain.
  • The MergThe Merg Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016

    If you have a Cash Amt column in the investment account, the investment account can not be a Single Mutual Fund (SMF) account, and it can not have a linked checking account. Also you would not be able to change BoughtX transactions to Bought transactions in SMF accounts or accounts with a linked checking account.

    Linked checking accounts are not normally "hidden", though I suppose one could hide such an account. Presumably then, one could un-hide such an account.

    It might be that your financial institution is downloading transactions that involve cash in such a way that the transactions will not alter the cash balance in the Quicken investment account ... namely by categorizing the transactions as transfers back into the same investment account. That would create a BoughtX transaction that did not change the cash balance in *any* Quicken account.

    [Q2012 is the first Quicken version, I believe, to include the Share Balance column in all investment accounts.]

    NWJ,

    You might be on to something. I just assumed that it was using a linked cash account, but because the dropdown for the "Use cash for this transaction" won't expand to show a long account name, I could never see the end of the account being listed. I just renamed it and when looking in that list, it only had the 529 account and not a cash account. So, it does appear that it is transferring the cash into itself. However, when it is done this way, the cash balance of the account is never debited and will continually increase. (It would be nice to show a screen shot of what the register looks like, but unfortunately cannot do that here.)

    As for the type of account, in the Account Settings, I have "Account Type: Brokerage". There are two radio buttons below that asking "Tax-Deferred" and "Show cash in a checking account". Both are set for No. If I change the "Show cash" option to yes, it will create a new checking account with the same name as the 529 account with the extra word of "Cash" on the end. It will then update my account to move all the "Xin" transactions to that account and update all the "Bought" transactions to "BoughtX" transactions.

    Am I making any sense here?

    Thanks,
    Merg
  • Howard RoarkHoward Roark Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2016

    If you have a Cash Amt column in the investment account, the investment account can not be a Single Mutual Fund (SMF) account, and it can not have a linked checking account. Also you would not be able to change BoughtX transactions to Bought transactions in SMF accounts or accounts with a linked checking account.

    Linked checking accounts are not normally "hidden", though I suppose one could hide such an account. Presumably then, one could un-hide such an account.

    It might be that your financial institution is downloading transactions that involve cash in such a way that the transactions will not alter the cash balance in the Quicken investment account ... namely by categorizing the transactions as transfers back into the same investment account. That would create a BoughtX transaction that did not change the cash balance in *any* Quicken account.

    [Q2012 is the first Quicken version, I believe, to include the Share Balance column in all investment accounts.]

    " ... when it is done this way, the cash balance of the account is never debited and will continually increase".

    Correct. That's why I suggested it might explain what you were seeing.

    I don't know of anything you can do from your end to change the way the downloaded transactions are created or treated. I'm not even sure what technique the fi uses to cause a transfer back into the same account, but I seem to recall getting transactions like that, or reading of others who did, at some time in the past.

    Since your fi requires that you have a separate Quicken account for each security, they may be assuming that Quicken users would create "Single Mutual Fund" accounts ... which can not have a cash balance. So your fi may be sending transactions intended for an account type that can not have a cash balance: I doubt you can do anything about that.

    The only options I can think of:

    You might consider not transferring cash into the investment accounts; just categorize those transactions (the ones in the non-investment account that is providing the "cash") as something like "Mutual Fund Purchase" for example. Then the investment account cash would stay correct without you having to modify the downloaded transactions.

    Or you could actually use Single Mutual Fund accounts for the accounts (though I personally dislike SMF accounts, and they can cause their own set of problems).

    Or you could prevail on the fi to download plain Bought transactions.

    Or ... continue modifying the downloaded transactions.
  • The MergThe Merg Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016

    If you have a Cash Amt column in the investment account, the investment account can not be a Single Mutual Fund (SMF) account, and it can not have a linked checking account. Also you would not be able to change BoughtX transactions to Bought transactions in SMF accounts or accounts with a linked checking account.

    Linked checking accounts are not normally "hidden", though I suppose one could hide such an account. Presumably then, one could un-hide such an account.

    It might be that your financial institution is downloading transactions that involve cash in such a way that the transactions will not alter the cash balance in the Quicken investment account ... namely by categorizing the transactions as transfers back into the same investment account. That would create a BoughtX transaction that did not change the cash balance in *any* Quicken account.

    [Q2012 is the first Quicken version, I believe, to include the Share Balance column in all investment accounts.]

    NWJ,

    What issues does having a SMF account cause? It sounds like the easiest answer in my case is to just update the BoughtX transaction to Bought. That shouldn't cause any issues on my end, correct?

    Thanks,
    Merg
  • Howard RoarkHoward Roark Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2016

    If you have a Cash Amt column in the investment account, the investment account can not be a Single Mutual Fund (SMF) account, and it can not have a linked checking account. Also you would not be able to change BoughtX transactions to Bought transactions in SMF accounts or accounts with a linked checking account.

    Linked checking accounts are not normally "hidden", though I suppose one could hide such an account. Presumably then, one could un-hide such an account.

    It might be that your financial institution is downloading transactions that involve cash in such a way that the transactions will not alter the cash balance in the Quicken investment account ... namely by categorizing the transactions as transfers back into the same investment account. That would create a BoughtX transaction that did not change the cash balance in *any* Quicken account.

    [Q2012 is the first Quicken version, I believe, to include the Share Balance column in all investment accounts.]

    You can never hold any other security in the SMF account except the one you initially establish for the account. You can not record Corporate Spinoffs or Corporate Mergers in a SMF account. You can not "exchange" securities - by any means - in a SMF account.

    I am only assuming that a SMF account would eliminate your problem.

    You might try creating a New Quicken test file, setting up one SMF in that file, and downloading to that account to see how it works.
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