Quicken Deluxe 401(k) Transactions Entering a Loss of Value

edited January 20 in
I am using Quicken Deluxe 2009 R7 (Windows), but I believe that my question is so basic, it would be the same in all versions.

I am finally doing more with my 401(k) & IRA investments than just tracking my payroll contributions.
I am still stuck on how to enter a loss in value of a security.
I assume that using the Reinvest transaction is the wrong way to enter this activity since it is difficult to enter a negative amount for Dividend and even when I use the calculator to enter the negative amount in Dividend the Value of the transaction and the security is in the 100's of billiions of dollars. Apparently Quicken cannot divide by a negative number.
What is the proper way to enter this type of transaction in a 401(k).
From my 401(k) statement:
Fund: Vanguard 500 Index Beginning Value   3,563.84
Fund: Vanguard 500 Index Change in Value  -  495.54  (loss)
Fund: Vanguard 500 Index Ending Balance    3,068.30
Fund: Vanguard 500 Index Ending Shares          29.452 units

I am using Quicken Deluxe 2009 R7 (Windows), but I believe that my question is so basic, it would be the same in all versions. I would like to get all of my retirement accounts (401k/IRA) straightened out before I upgrade to Quicken Deluxx 2012.

Comments

  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20
    First thing to recognize is that the change of value (loss of 495.54) is not a transaction entry.  It should be created by changing the NAV of the fund.  In this case, your Ending Balance and Ending Shares would indicate a NAV of 3068.30 / 29.452 = $104.180 / share.  

    Are you making deposits to this account through a Quciken Paycheck transaction?  If so, then you should have multiple transactions creating cash in the 401k account.  

    There is an "Update 401k Holdings" button, but if you are not taking out loans, making other withdrawls, and so on, I think you can handle this more simply yourself.  

    At the prior statement, you had some number of shares; with this statement you have a new number of shares.  Enter a buy transactions buying the difference in shares for whatever cash you had deposited in the account.  If you have multiple funds in your holdings, likely you are allocationg to them in some percetage - 40% to one fund, 35% to another and 25% to a thrd fund.  Distribute your dollars accordingly and do the same type of math.  

    The NAV of the fund(s) can be entered on the Holdings view of the account or in a Portfolio view (Ctrl-U) of your Quicken investments.  The change in the NAV from the prior statement to this statment represents the change in value of the holding.

    HTH
  • edited July 2016
    q.lurker said:

    First thing to recognize is that the change of value (loss of 495.54) is not a transaction entry.  It should be created by changing the NAV of the fund.  In this case, your Ending Balance and Ending Shares would indicate a NAV of 3068.30 / 29.452 = $104.180 / share.  

    Are you making deposits to this account through a Quciken Paycheck transaction?  If so, then you should have multiple transactions creating cash in the 401k account.  

    There is an "Update 401k Holdings" button, but if you are not taking out loans, making other withdrawls, and so on, I think you can handle this more simply yourself.  

    At the prior statement, you had some number of shares; with this statement you have a new number of shares.  Enter a buy transactions buying the difference in shares for whatever cash you had deposited in the account.  If you have multiple funds in your holdings, likely you are allocationg to them in some percetage - 40% to one fund, 35% to another and 25% to a thrd fund.  Distribute your dollars accordingly and do the same type of math.  

    The NAV of the fund(s) can be entered on the Holdings view of the account or in a Portfolio view (Ctrl-U) of your Quicken investments.  The change in the NAV from the prior statement to this statment represents the change in value of the holding.

    HTH

    Thanks HTH, I upgraded to QW2012 tonight and was able to find how to change the share price in both the Holdings view and Portfolio view.  This seems like such a basic operation that I am surprised that I could not find any information in any of the Quicken help options or even on the web.  I still don't know how it would have been accomplished in QW2009, but it doesn't matter now.

    I have been using Quicken for 13 years, but have never monitored the values of my 6 401(k)’s.  I’ve been working to get them up to date and have all but three reconciled.

    I will probably not get an opportunity to enter my backlog of statements until Friday but I appreciate your help.
    I hope to keep this thread open given my lack of knowledge about investing and Quicken operations.  
    I also ordered the Quicken 2012 Guide Book today.

    Thank you,
    TCS
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    q.lurker said:

    First thing to recognize is that the change of value (loss of 495.54) is not a transaction entry.  It should be created by changing the NAV of the fund.  In this case, your Ending Balance and Ending Shares would indicate a NAV of 3068.30 / 29.452 = $104.180 / share.  

    Are you making deposits to this account through a Quciken Paycheck transaction?  If so, then you should have multiple transactions creating cash in the 401k account.  

    There is an "Update 401k Holdings" button, but if you are not taking out loans, making other withdrawls, and so on, I think you can handle this more simply yourself.  

    At the prior statement, you had some number of shares; with this statement you have a new number of shares.  Enter a buy transactions buying the difference in shares for whatever cash you had deposited in the account.  If you have multiple funds in your holdings, likely you are allocationg to them in some percetage - 40% to one fund, 35% to another and 25% to a thrd fund.  Distribute your dollars accordingly and do the same type of math.  

    The NAV of the fund(s) can be entered on the Holdings view of the account or in a Portfolio view (Ctrl-U) of your Quicken investments.  The change in the NAV from the prior statement to this statment represents the change in value of the holding.

    HTH

    TCS1977 wrote:  "I hope to keep this thread open given my lack of knowledge about investing and Quicken operations. "

    Certainly if you have questions related to entering your 401k transactions and what I have offered, feel free to add on with other comments.  But if you have other investing-related topic, it is usually beneficial to open a new, properly-titled discussion.  You'll get increase the likelihood of feedback from a larger pool of users.
  • ScottScott Member
    edited July 2016
    q.lurker said:

    First thing to recognize is that the change of value (loss of 495.54) is not a transaction entry.  It should be created by changing the NAV of the fund.  In this case, your Ending Balance and Ending Shares would indicate a NAV of 3068.30 / 29.452 = $104.180 / share.  

    Are you making deposits to this account through a Quciken Paycheck transaction?  If so, then you should have multiple transactions creating cash in the 401k account.  

    There is an "Update 401k Holdings" button, but if you are not taking out loans, making other withdrawls, and so on, I think you can handle this more simply yourself.  

    At the prior statement, you had some number of shares; with this statement you have a new number of shares.  Enter a buy transactions buying the difference in shares for whatever cash you had deposited in the account.  If you have multiple funds in your holdings, likely you are allocationg to them in some percetage - 40% to one fund, 35% to another and 25% to a thrd fund.  Distribute your dollars accordingly and do the same type of math.  

    The NAV of the fund(s) can be entered on the Holdings view of the account or in a Portfolio view (Ctrl-U) of your Quicken investments.  The change in the NAV from the prior statement to this statment represents the change in value of the holding.

    HTH

    Funny...I"m running into a very similar problem with Quicken H&B 2009 R7.  I just closed my 401k and am moving it. According to Mass Mutual (where I'm closing) there is a negative investment income which I assume is a loss not a NAV drop.  I have the prices correct.  Example: I've seen at the end of the year where shares get added due to reinvestment, etc.  I assume this loss is working in the opposite manor.  But I've entered it as Inv Income and added a (-) symbol forcing it to show a loss and to subtract.  But it's throwing off the cash balance showing a mismatch between the Securities Value and the Total Market Value.  Same thing with trying to show the $40 admin fee for closing as the $40 was spread over the three funds.

    I'm doing something wrong.  I need to pull all the funds out so I can enter in a new IRA (Rollover) and distribute to the new funds in the IRA.  But where I am currently I end up with a negative cash balance.

    Any ideas?
  • ScottScott Member
    edited July 2016
    q.lurker said:

    First thing to recognize is that the change of value (loss of 495.54) is not a transaction entry.  It should be created by changing the NAV of the fund.  In this case, your Ending Balance and Ending Shares would indicate a NAV of 3068.30 / 29.452 = $104.180 / share.  

    Are you making deposits to this account through a Quciken Paycheck transaction?  If so, then you should have multiple transactions creating cash in the 401k account.  

    There is an "Update 401k Holdings" button, but if you are not taking out loans, making other withdrawls, and so on, I think you can handle this more simply yourself.  

    At the prior statement, you had some number of shares; with this statement you have a new number of shares.  Enter a buy transactions buying the difference in shares for whatever cash you had deposited in the account.  If you have multiple funds in your holdings, likely you are allocationg to them in some percetage - 40% to one fund, 35% to another and 25% to a thrd fund.  Distribute your dollars accordingly and do the same type of math.  

    The NAV of the fund(s) can be entered on the Holdings view of the account or in a Portfolio view (Ctrl-U) of your Quicken investments.  The change in the NAV from the prior statement to this statment represents the change in value of the holding.

    HTH

    Okay...as the often happens I figure it out shortly after I give in and ask for help. LOL.

    When posting the transactions I needed to use the Action type of Removed.  You can enter the number of shares that will total the negative/loss and there is a memo field that is helpful,  For the $40 admin fee I'll have to remove the transaction type of Miscellaneous Expense and use Removed as well.  Then use proper amount of share and add a note in the memo field.  Other wise it throws off the securities value vs. the cash value.  This may be different and improved in later versions.  

    I think this app needs a good overall myself.  Not much has changed over time as the layout and use.  Some cloud apps do better.  Be interesting to see what happens now Intuit owns Mint.com.
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