Quicken Alert that account will have a balance below $0 is inaccurate...

The MergThe Merg Member
edited October 2018 in

I'm trying to see if anyone else can replicate this issue...

I have an account in Quicken that I set up basically as an escrow account. My mortgage allows me to pay twice a month, but they hold onto the payments until the due date at which point the whole payment is applied. So, I use this account just to allow me to account for the fact that money has been transferred out of my checking account, however, I can't transfer that money into the mortgage account until the due date.

I have created a recurring transfer from the checking to this "cash" account that occurs on the 15th and the last day of the month. I then have another recurring transfer from the "cash" account to my mortgage account on the 2nd of the following month.

Quicken is contantly telling me that the balance of the cash account will go below $0 on the 2nd of the following month according to my scheduled bills. It appears that Quicken is not taking into account that I have scheduled transfers of funds into the account that will prevent the balance from every being below $0.

I've had this issue since Quicken 2013 (now using Quicken 2016) and have tried to report it previously to no avail.

Thanks,
Merg

Comments

  • SherlockSherlock ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018

    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.
    Quicken user since 1997 
    Premier on Windows 10 
  • edited July 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    So, basically a limitation that they won't fix. If it app is going to alert you to low balances, it should take into account funds coming into the account as well as going out, especially if they are recurring amounts.

    - Merg
  • NotACPANotACPA ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    Function isn't broken.  Your perception is. Show Reminders in your register, and the problem goes away.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • edited July 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    It has nothing to do with Reminders. I have Alerts on my Home screen set up to let me know if I will be going below a specified dollar amount for my accounts. In this case, it is saying that I will go below $0, which is not true as that account never goes below $0. The fact that the Alerts will look at recurring/future payments when calculating the balance, but will not take into account any recurring transfers into the account during that same time frame is definitely a limitation.

    - Merg
  • NotACPANotACPA ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    Which is resolved by showing reminders in the register. Have you even tried that?
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • SherlockSherlock ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    [mention://5407002 @The Merg] There are many issues that Intuit has not addressed.   If you haven't already, you may want to report the issue to Intuit's Quicken team at: https://www.research.net/s/QuickenFeedback
    Quicken user since 1997 
    Premier on Windows 10 
  • Bob_LBob_L ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    [mention://5407002 @The Merg] I tried duplicating your situation, and found some strange things going on where minimum levels were getting stuck as I tried different scenarios. Anyway, I believe part of the issue may be related to what is probably an opening balance of zero coupled with the alert at zero. You might try setting the opening balance for that clearing account to say $10 and then set the warning to $9. That kind of set up seemed to work in my test, i,e. I did not get an alert for a future transfer in followed by a transfer out a few days later.
    Quicken Premier Subscription, Windows 10 Pro
  • Bob_LBob_L ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    Could also be because the alert is for zero or near and it is seeing that zero balance after the mortgage payment?
    Quicken Premier Subscription, Windows 10 Pro
  • Howard RoarkHoward Roark ✭✭✭✭ Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    I think it's possible that there is a misunderstanding about the specifics of the trigger of the Alert.

    The op has not provided one key piece of information: what is the exact amount entered for the minimum balance in the Alerts dialog.

    According to Quicken (see the text at the top of the account minimum balances window) the minimum balance alert "notifies you when an account reaches a minimum amount (Remind Me At); and again when it reaches the minimum amount".

    Note the word "reaches". I believe that means that you should be notified when the account balance is less than OR EQUAL TO the minimum balance specified.

    In the specific case of this discussion, it seems to me that the balance of the account in question "reaches" $0.00 from the 2nd of the month thru the 14th of the month.

    If my assumptions are true, perhaps setting the minimum balance to -.01 would provide the desired Alert.
  • edited July 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    [mention://67948 @NoWayJose], for all purposes this account does not have a minimum balance set. It is a "Cash" account and thus does not appear in the list of accounts that you can set a minimum balance. Also, the alert I am getting is saying that my balance will be BELOW $0 and not that is has reached $0. I believe the alert is a general alert that is popping up as it thinks that my balance will be below $0 and Quicken feels it should alert you to that fact whether or not you have set an account minimum balance. I assume the latter as most people would be setting their account minimum balance to whatever their bank requires.
  • SherlockSherlock ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    My understanding of the issue is that it stems from how Quicken handles transfers within split transaction reminders.
    Quicken user since 1997 
    Premier on Windows 10 
  • edited July 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    [mention://68084 @BOBL_2], I might just use that idea of setting the opening balance above $0 and see if that works. I'll set it for $0.01 and see if that resolves the issue.

    - Merg
  • Howard RoarkHoward Roark ✭✭✭✭ Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    I know of no "general" alerts.
    And the Alerts feature that I referred makes text reports that say the account balance is below the minimum when it is not. But the same Alert popup produces the correct text, as noted in my previous comment.
  • edited July 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    [mention://84907 @Sherlock], are you referring to split transaction reminders for funds going out of the account or going into the account? The transfer into the account is a straight transfer. The transfer going out is a mortgage payment, so it does involve a split transaction.

    - Merg
  • mshigginsmshiggins ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    I'm curious what benefit there is to escrowing your mortgage payment? If your bank does not apply it 2x per month, are you actually saving any interest?
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • edited July 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    [mention://67948 @NoWayJose], well where is the alert coming from that is telling me my balance will be below $0? If I go to the Alerts set up and click on Banking/Acct. Min Balances, the account in question is not in the list. That list will only show account types that are specified as checking or savings. The account in question is a "Cash" account.

    Set up a cash account and create a recurring reminder in the future for a transfer out of the account. You will get an Alert after a day or so that your account will be below $0.

    - Merg
  • SherlockSherlock ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    [mention://5407002 @The Merg] The transfer reminder appears in both registers where as the split reminder only appears in one.  This appears to be handle properly in the projected balance view but not within the register alert processing.
    Quicken user since 1997 
    Premier on Windows 10 
  • edited July 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    @mshiggins, unfortunately, no. It just allows me to break up the withdraw into two payments over the month instead of one large payment at the end of the month. Gotta love Wells Fargo.

    - Merg
  • mshigginsmshiggins ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    Seems like a lot of effort to go to for no benefit.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • SherlockSherlock ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    [mention://5407002 @The Merg] Please confirm whether you are using a transfer reminder or performing the transfer within a bill reminder as a transfer from with the bill reminder has the same behavior as the transfer from within a split transaction reminder.
    Quicken user since 1997 
    Premier on Windows 10 
  • edited July 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    @Sherlock, the transfer into the account is listed as a Transfer Reminder.

    [mention://67891 @mshiggins], for all purposes it's not really any extra effort. Everything works as it should, except for the fact that I constantly see this incorrect alert on my home screen. At this point (after it being this way for years), it doesn't really bother me. I just figured that they would have fixed the issue by the time they got to Quicken 2016.

    - Merg
  • OleSVMOleSVM Member
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    [mention://5407002 @The Merg] , [mention://67891 @mshiggins],

    Like mshiggins, I also saw the downside of letting Suntrust hold my first half of the payment (when I still had a mortgage) with no benefit accruing to me.  IIRC, I resolved it by not signing up for the program and simply sending in two payments.  Then the first payment was posted immediately upon receipt as was the second.  Eventually I moved it up to include the extra payment in the previous month's payment.  It worked very smoothly.
  • The MergThe Merg ✭✭✭ Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    [mention://68021 @OleSVM], I'll have to check, but with my mortgage with Wells Fargo, unless I sign up for the bi-weekly plan, which gets you that extra monthly payment a year, they will hold any payment they get until the due date. If you have paid more than your payment requires at that point, the extra is put towards the principal.

    But, that means it doesn't matter if I have them pull the funds semi-monthly or if I send the money to them on my own. They just hold it until the due date. Believe me, I'm not a fan. I'll hopefully be re-financing at some point, so I won't have to deal with them much longer.

    - Merg
  • The MergThe Merg ✭✭✭ Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    Well, I completely forgot that I had a discussion with QuickenTamara about this over 3 years ago. While I remember posting about it here, I didn't remember the outcome of that thread. Here is a link to that discussion...

    http://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/bug-report-alert-incorrectly-advising-of-projected-low-balance

    In the thread, she acknowledges that this is a bug and was reported to their engineering group to be researched. Apparently, it was not very high on the todo list.

    - Merg
  • Bob_LBob_L ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    I tested using a bank account because minimums aren't supposed to apply to cash accounts.  Try using a bank account and either my or NWJ's suggestion.  If you haven't already I would also create new reminders to remove the chance of conversion issues.
    Quicken Premier Subscription, Windows 10 Pro
  • The MergThe Merg ✭✭✭ Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    [mention://68084 @BOBL_2], I went ahead last night and set the Opening Balance for account in question to $0.01. When I opened Quicken this morning, the alert did not pop-up. Maybe that did the trick. I appreciate you giving it a try, however, can you try it with a cash account as well. While I realize that there are no minimum alerts for cash accounts, something is set it off. As for creating a new reminder, that's been done several times.

    Thanks,
    Merg
  • Bob_LBob_L ✭✭✭✭✭ SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Sherlock said:


    Quicken still only takes the source register of the reminder into the projection of the register balance for the alert.  If you use the Projected Balances view on the Bills tab, you get a more accurate projection.

    Sorry but I was unable to duplicate your situation using a cash account.  I even set up the situation where a transfer in was then followed by a larger transfer out such that the account balance went negative.  No alerts.
    Quicken Premier Subscription, Windows 10 Pro
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