Any conflict issues with having the exact same account in two different data files under the same Q-

BKBK Member ✭✭
Any conflict issues with having the exact same financial account in two different Quicken data files under the same Q-ID?  -  QW2016 Premier on Windows 10 Pro.

Let's say I have two QW data files both under the same Quicken ID.  And I add exactly the same financial institution & same account to both data files – via Direct Connect or Express Web Connect method, whatever the system determines best.  And start updating both.

1- Will transaction downloads/updates work on both files?  Or will Quicken determine that since it was already downloaded once, the second one will not get the download?

2- What happens when I deactivate the financial institution account in one Quicken data file and not the other?  Since the Quicken server becomes aware of the deactivation, how will the account in the second file be impacted?

3- Does the connection method make a difference in my scenario (Direct Connect vs Express Web Connect)?

I would think that Quicken assigns a unique ID to each data file regardless of my Quicken ID or file name so that it can differentiate and avoid such conflicts, but I'd like to know more.  Going back to a backup file seems to be an identical scenario actually.  I am asking since I would like to create a test data file and wonder if I should use the same Quicken ID or create a separate one?  Is there a recommendation/best practice approach?

Thank you.

Comments

  • splashersplasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Each file is independent from all other files.  What you do in one has no effect on any of the others.

    The one thing I would not do is activate Bill Pay for the same account in two different files, I'm not sure what might happen, but that is one conflict that I would not want to deal with.  Sending double checks could lead to bankruptcy.

    Personally, I will make a copy (File->Save copy) of my data file and do testing in one and keep the other "pure" as my production file and they do not interfere with each other.
    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  QW 2015, 2016, 2017 & Subscription  -  Win10
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list

  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    There is no conflict with using the same Quicken Id for multiple data files.

    But I will point out that your statement "Going back to a backup file seems to be an identical scenario actually." isn't true.  Because are you suspected each data file has unique identifiers to it.
    But a copy (and a backup is a copy) would have the identical information and as such it could conflict with the existing data.

    If we were talking about only Direct Connect then even a copy of your data file would be independent.  When you talk about Express Web Connect it gets more "questionable".  As in the data on the server is connected to some kind of unique Id in the data file.  But Express Web Connect seems to handle the switching off from one data file to another without any results the user sees.  But Quicken Tamara has said that it does cause "flushing data" and other performance problems.

    The main conflict of data though would be in Quicken Mobile.  And frankly I don't know how it will handle a backup.   File I have not tested mobile very much.

    A backup file or a copy of your data file that is "out of date" you have all the same identifiers, but when it went to sync it would be in a different state than when it was synced with the other data file.
    I have to assume they have dealt with this problem since it would have been true with the Intuit Id too.

    But let's talk about the different data files that are associated with the same Quicken Id.
    I thing internally they are using a hidden unique Id for the Cloud Account and such, but there is even a visible way you can see that they shouldn't conflict.

    Here is an example of a Quicken Id associated with two data files.
    image
    Clicked on that link:
    image

    So clearly they have kept these separate.  Also note that it isn't only Mobile that the the "Cloud Account" holds.  That account also holds information for things like Online Bill presentment, the credit score, ...
  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    splasher said:

    Each file is independent from all other files.  What you do in one has no effect on any of the others.

    The one thing I would not do is activate Bill Pay for the same account in two different files, I'm not sure what might happen, but that is one conflict that I would not want to deal with.  Sending double checks could lead to bankruptcy.

    Personally, I will make a copy (File->Save copy) of my data file and do testing in one and keep the other "pure" as my production file and they do not interfere with each other.

    Good point about Bill Pay.  I don't use it so I tend to forget about it.
    Give that you are directing the financial institution to do something, clearly that can cause all kinds of problems if you are doing it from multiple data files.
  • BKBK Member ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Thanks for the info folks.  For the record I use neither bill pay, mobile, or cloud storage.  I am all local baby except for transaction update downloads.

    Splasher, you mentioned that bill pay could be a conflict.  From a double payment perspective you are correct - great point.  But not from the perspective that I was getting at - seems like if double paying happens, then there is no conflict between the two files and each file is working exactly as it should, that is independent of the other.  (I realize double paying is bad, I get that).  So as long as one understands the issue and adjusts accordingly, you are good.

    QPW, let's go to the backup file topic + another test file.  Here is a scenario:
    - Production file: BofA active
    - Backup file: BofA active
    - New Test file: BofA active (Created, activated and download/update same BofA account)

    Now only in my production file I deactivate BofA.  Then I decide to restore the [prior] backup file where BofA was active at that time.  What should be my expected results when I try to update each file?
    - Restored file: BofA ??? (will I get an error or what?)
    - Test file: BofA still active I assume?

    I guess I just have to test the scenario without breaking anything completely.  And perhaps the safest approach is to use different quicken IDs hoping that Quicken will have completely separate records and hence zero chance for any conflicts.
  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    You should expect the restored file will initially pull/update data as of the date of the backup and the test file is not impacted.
    Quicken user since 1997 
    Premier on Windows 7 
  • BKBK Member ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    I just did a full testing and here we go.

    I opened my production file and did two things:
    - Made a backup using Quicken’s functionality
    - Made a copy using Windows functionality

    Then I created a brand new TestFile using my same Quicken ID.  And added BankA and downloaded transactions.  Connection method was Express Web Connect.

    So now I have four files: Production, Production-Copy, Production-backup, TestFile

    Test1:
    • Opened the Production file and deactivated BankA.  Closed the file.
    • Opened the Production-Copy and tried to update BankA.  Got a message “did you close this lately? ...”  Cancelled and closed it.
    • Restored the Production-backup and tried to update BankA.  Same message.  Closed it. (I was not expecting this from the backup file.  Thought it would update.)
    • Opened the TestFile and tried to update BankA.  Updated successfully!
    Test2:
    • Brought all four files to an identical state where BankA is active and functional in all four. 
    • Opened the TestFile and deactivated BankA.  Closed the file.
    • Opened the Production file and BankA updated successfully. Ditto with the other two.
    Conclusion (for Express Web Connection):
    • Only a newly created separate file will be completely independent of the others (even if it is using the same Quicken ID).
    • Other files, Copy or Backup will reference the same record on Quicken servers where a change to one will impact the others.
  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    BK said:

    I just did a full testing and here we go.

    I opened my production file and did two things:
    - Made a backup using Quicken’s functionality
    - Made a copy using Windows functionality

    Then I created a brand new TestFile using my same Quicken ID.  And added BankA and downloaded transactions.  Connection method was Express Web Connect.

    So now I have four files: Production, Production-Copy, Production-backup, TestFile

    Test1:

    • Opened the Production file and deactivated BankA.  Closed the file.
    • Opened the Production-Copy and tried to update BankA.  Got a message “did you close this lately? ...”  Cancelled and closed it.
    • Restored the Production-backup and tried to update BankA.  Same message.  Closed it. (I was not expecting this from the backup file.  Thought it would update.)
    • Opened the TestFile and tried to update BankA.  Updated successfully!
    Test2:
    • Brought all four files to an identical state where BankA is active and functional in all four. 
    • Opened the TestFile and deactivated BankA.  Closed the file.
    • Opened the Production file and BankA updated successfully. Ditto with the other two.
    Conclusion (for Express Web Connection):
    • Only a newly created separate file will be completely independent of the others (even if it is using the same Quicken ID).
    • Other files, Copy or Backup will reference the same record on Quicken servers where a change to one will impact the others.
    Sounds about right (the conclusions).

    As I said "When you talk about Express Web Connect it gets more "questionable".  As
    in the data on the server is connected to some kind of unique Id in the
    data file. "

    Express Web Connect pre-dates the Intuit Id/Quicken Id/Cloud accounts, by about 20 years.  At the time Quicken logged into the servers anonymously.

    At one point I has thought that they had switched Express Web Connect over to using the Intuit Id, but Quicken Tamara told me no that wasn't correct.

    So to this day they use that "unique Id".  So you are accessing the same data file/unique Id from a "Windows copy or a backup".

    For the most part Quicken is going to handle you changing around on the same data file/unique Id like restoring from a backup without you noticing it.

    But those files are not truly "independent" because they are all referencing the same data on the server.  Clearly if I deactivate an account in one data file I have told the server do delete its record of it.  And as such if I use a "pure copy" of that data file Quicken will think the account is still active, but the server will not.

    So yes you can cause problems with these kinds of "copies", but it usually only amounts to needing to deactivate and reactive to get back in sync.

    I will note that on the Bill Pay (not the online bill presentment) situation it is more complicated than just "duplicate payments".

    What you might not realize is that Quicken is play GUI to the financial institution's bill pay system.

    As such there is a two was communication.  How good that communication is depends on the financial institution.

    I have not used it in many years, but here is an example.
    I could create a scheduled bill on the Wells Fargo website, and run One Step Update on Quicken and it would pick it up.

    And the same would be true for the other way around.  What I created in Quicken would appear on the website.

    So in theory if everything is working right, it wouldn't matter what data file you are in, if you have a bill paying account connected to a given username then they should be in sync.

    But I can certainly think up things that might challenge this sync, and I have never tested that.  Also certainly each data file would be "live" as in you will certainly be affecting what happens at the financial institution, so you can't really consider them completely independent.
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