Can't delete securities -[edited]

Unknown
Unknown Member
edited September 2019 in Investing (Windows)
I'm running Quicken 2018 R5.20. I cannot delete securities that are carried over from much earlier files, dating back to 2011. The securities do not even show up in my securities lists. However, when I run reports, they do show up. There is no way to remove these ancient securities that I can see - I've tried everything - and therefore I cannot get my investments accounts to balance with my actuals. 

Comments

  • Roger M
    Roger M Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Gerson,
    By "carried over", do you mean that Quicken indicates that
    you own these securities, even though you have sold all of them? Do they
    still show in the Portfolio and Holdings views in your investment accounts?

    Have you
    tried enabling Hidden Transactions in the
    Edit>>Preferences>>Investment Transactions menu? If not,
    then try it, and look for any hidden transactions or placeholder
    transactions that may be related to those securities. Maybe there is a
    sales transaction that is missing.
    Quicken Windows Premier - Subscription **** Windows 10 Home *** Quicken user since 1996
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    The securities do not even show up in my securities lists. 

    Do the securities appear in the Security List window (Ctrl + Y) when you check Show hidden Securities?
    when I run reports, they do show up.
    If these securities are no longer held in an account but appear as though they do in a report, you should be able to drill down to the relevant transactions in the accounts and, worse case, use Remove - Shares removed transaction to zero out the balance.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2018
    Well, that messed it up even more. The problem appears to be twofold. First, where there are individual securities that use the same symbol (e.g., VUG), Quicken records them with different names - even different names than are currently listed on the exchanges as security symbols. Second, and this subsumes the first, that if the security name has actually changed from what had originally been recorded in Quicken, Quicken will not pick up the download. For example, "Vanguard REIT" (VNQ) is now "Vanguard Real Estate ETF." There are current trades being made on VNQ, but Quicken does not pick them up. What this tells me is that Quicken matches transactions by security name (which change) and not by security symbol (which you enter independently when entering the security initially). That is a system defect in Quicken. This makes it impossible to match holdings per Quicken and actual holdings per the brokerage report, and leads to false results. In my case, the difference is very substantial. And what this means is that the Quicken database structure is fundamentally flawed. Anyone who knows databases knows that you never look up a record by name, but by an index number. In this case, the security symbol should take the place of the index number in a well-built database - but Quicken dumbly searches by name, which can and does change. That's the issue, and it also accounts for #1 above. For the most part, the Quicken procedure it still works, and this problem affects only two of my four accounts. But if I were not diligent in cross-checking Quicken holdings with actual holdings, I would think I am rather more wealthy than I really am. You owe it to your customers to fix this. I am sure this is the answer to the many unresolved cases of this nature in your community help area. And you ought to document this in your help topics. Now that I understand the problem, I will simply ignore the Quicken investment reports, and I think that others should do the same until you fix this elementary database flaw.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018

    Well, that messed it up even more. The problem appears to be twofold. First, where there are individual securities that use the same symbol (e.g., VUG), Quicken records them with different names - even different names than are currently listed on the exchanges as security symbols. Second, and this subsumes the first, that if the security name has actually changed from what had originally been recorded in Quicken, Quicken will not pick up the download. For example, "Vanguard REIT" (VNQ) is now "Vanguard Real Estate ETF." There are current trades being made on VNQ, but Quicken does not pick them up. What this tells me is that Quicken matches transactions by security name (which change) and not by security symbol (which you enter independently when entering the security initially). That is a system defect in Quicken. This makes it impossible to match holdings per Quicken and actual holdings per the brokerage report, and leads to false results. In my case, the difference is very substantial. And what this means is that the Quicken database structure is fundamentally flawed. Anyone who knows databases knows that you never look up a record by name, but by an index number. In this case, the security symbol should take the place of the index number in a well-built database - but Quicken dumbly searches by name, which can and does change. That's the issue, and it also accounts for #1 above. For the most part, the Quicken procedure it still works, and this problem affects only two of my four accounts. But if I were not diligent in cross-checking Quicken holdings with actual holdings, I would think I am rather more wealthy than I really am. You owe it to your customers to fix this. I am sure this is the answer to the many unresolved cases of this nature in your community help area. And you ought to document this in your help topics. Now that I understand the problem, I will simply ignore the Quicken investment reports, and I think that others should do the same until you fix this elementary database flaw.

    Your perception is flawed.  So let me try to explain how I see and understand Quicken's management of securities.  These comments reflect experience with many past versions of Quicken and with the QW2017 R15.13 version.  

    Starting with manual creation and entry of securities:  You (the user) have always had the ability to create a security in Quicken and manually enter the transactions associated with that security.  The name has never needed to match a name found in the real world.  If you chose to also provide a recognized ticker symbol, then Quicken (for the past many years) would download current (most recent 5 days) and historical (up to 5 years with the older values at end-of-month) prices for that security.  Still no need for the name to match anything in the real world.  

    In part, this freedom-to-name ability allows a user have multiple securities associated with the same ticker, though that approach is generally discouraged.  For example, one could have Ford, Ford-His and Ford-Hers all sharing the same common F ticker symbol.  

    In the recent years (2017, but not 2014), the security creation process begins with a prompt for the ticker.  If the ticker is found in Quicken's online database, Quicken will fill in that name as the security is created.  But the user has the option to edit the security name at any time in any fashion.  The only caveat I can think of is that the same name cannot be used for two separate securities.  

    Now we move to the realm of downloading from brokerages:

    There is recognition that different brokerage may 'name' securities differently and even moreso that a user may have already established a security in their Quicken file for a security that is also in the information coming in via a brokerage download. 

    In the OFX-formatted data from the brokerage is a set of data identifying the securities held or at least being reported on.  (Help Log Files, save to a text file for easier review).  Included in that grouping of data is a information such as below:

    <SECLIST>
    <MFINFO>
       <SECINFO>
          <SECID>
             <UNIQUEID>922908728
             <UNIQUEIDTYPE>CUSIP
          </SECID>
          <SECNAME>Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares
          <TICKER>VTSAX
          <FIID>0585
          <UNITPRICE>47.72
          <MEMO>Price as of date based on closing price
       </SECINFO>
       <MFTYPE>OPENEND
    </MFINFO>

    It is the SECID that is critical there.  Usually that will be a CUSIP number.  

    When Quicken begins processing that downloaded data from the brokerage, it will first try to see if it has a match in your file for that security.  That match will be on the SECID (CUSIP).  If there is a pre-existing match -- move on.  If there is not a pre-existing match, the program will prompt the user to either create a match to an existing security, or to create a new security. 

    If the user edits the security details, the user will see a checkbox labelled "Matched with online security".  On the Other Info page, that SECID (CUSIP) will be listed (QW2017, prior editions required a Ctrl-click on the other Info button).  The user can uncheck that box to break the match, but the box can only be checked by Quicken processing a QFX file from a brokerage download.  

    From that point, once matched to that online security from the brokerage data, neither the security name nor the ticker are used in matching up downloaded transactions from the brokerage to a security in the Quicken file.  The matching is 100% based on the SECID number.  

    So, in all likelihood, if your downloads are translating transactions for one security to a different security, it is because a mismatch has been created.  The 'fix' for that is to uncheck that Matched with online security box and let the process rematch.  You would also need to manually correct securities that were wrongly matched for specific transactions.  It may well be that restoring a backup from before this errant path is a better choice.  

    One other note of caution:  Often in 401k type of accounts, the administrative agent (Vanguard, Fidelity, TIAA, etc.) may manage the investments as Units rather than as Shares.  Those units are not the same as the underlying MF shares.  A Unit of Fidelity Magellan Fund will be priced differently than shares of the Fidelity Magellan Fund traded retail as FMAGX.  As such those Unit investments should not be treated in your Quicken file as shares of the underlying mutual fund.  
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018

    Well, that messed it up even more. The problem appears to be twofold. First, where there are individual securities that use the same symbol (e.g., VUG), Quicken records them with different names - even different names than are currently listed on the exchanges as security symbols. Second, and this subsumes the first, that if the security name has actually changed from what had originally been recorded in Quicken, Quicken will not pick up the download. For example, "Vanguard REIT" (VNQ) is now "Vanguard Real Estate ETF." There are current trades being made on VNQ, but Quicken does not pick them up. What this tells me is that Quicken matches transactions by security name (which change) and not by security symbol (which you enter independently when entering the security initially). That is a system defect in Quicken. This makes it impossible to match holdings per Quicken and actual holdings per the brokerage report, and leads to false results. In my case, the difference is very substantial. And what this means is that the Quicken database structure is fundamentally flawed. Anyone who knows databases knows that you never look up a record by name, but by an index number. In this case, the security symbol should take the place of the index number in a well-built database - but Quicken dumbly searches by name, which can and does change. That's the issue, and it also accounts for #1 above. For the most part, the Quicken procedure it still works, and this problem affects only two of my four accounts. But if I were not diligent in cross-checking Quicken holdings with actual holdings, I would think I am rather more wealthy than I really am. You owe it to your customers to fix this. I am sure this is the answer to the many unresolved cases of this nature in your community help area. And you ought to document this in your help topics. Now that I understand the problem, I will simply ignore the Quicken investment reports, and I think that others should do the same until you fix this elementary database flaw.

    Also after resolving any mismatched securities, you may have to edit their price history in Quicken so that each security only has its own prices. 
    QWin Premier subscription
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited February 2018

    Well, that messed it up even more. The problem appears to be twofold. First, where there are individual securities that use the same symbol (e.g., VUG), Quicken records them with different names - even different names than are currently listed on the exchanges as security symbols. Second, and this subsumes the first, that if the security name has actually changed from what had originally been recorded in Quicken, Quicken will not pick up the download. For example, "Vanguard REIT" (VNQ) is now "Vanguard Real Estate ETF." There are current trades being made on VNQ, but Quicken does not pick them up. What this tells me is that Quicken matches transactions by security name (which change) and not by security symbol (which you enter independently when entering the security initially). That is a system defect in Quicken. This makes it impossible to match holdings per Quicken and actual holdings per the brokerage report, and leads to false results. In my case, the difference is very substantial. And what this means is that the Quicken database structure is fundamentally flawed. Anyone who knows databases knows that you never look up a record by name, but by an index number. In this case, the security symbol should take the place of the index number in a well-built database - but Quicken dumbly searches by name, which can and does change. That's the issue, and it also accounts for #1 above. For the most part, the Quicken procedure it still works, and this problem affects only two of my four accounts. But if I were not diligent in cross-checking Quicken holdings with actual holdings, I would think I am rather more wealthy than I really am. You owe it to your customers to fix this. I am sure this is the answer to the many unresolved cases of this nature in your community help area. And you ought to document this in your help topics. Now that I understand the problem, I will simply ignore the Quicken investment reports, and I think that others should do the same until you fix this elementary database flaw.

    Well, this is very interesting and reasonable. I will try it out. In the meantime, Quicken may wish to take a look at all the questions that are still open from other customers who have appeared to experience the same problem and to document the steps you have described in your help topics. It has taken an extraordinary amount of time and effort to obtain your good advice, and it would behoove Quicken to be more forthcoming and responsive to those customers who have not had the time and patience to follow this up. Many thanks! I'll let you know how it works when I come up for air.
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