QMac 2017: Apparently No Option for Variable Interest Rates under new Quicken Mac Version 4.5.0 (Bui

FONFON Member
I have upgraded to new Quicken Mac Version 4.5.0 (Build 45.17283.100). I am trying to convert my variable rate mortgage using the new Loan feature. The dialog box for entering Loan and Payment details only seems to support fixed rate loans. The line for interest rate has a blank for the percentage, but the drop down menu to the right is greyed out and only allows for "Fixed."
Major flaw if we can allow for this most common kind of mortgage.
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Comments

  • ConcordmanConcordman Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Yes agree that the update allows for fixed rate only at this time. Perhaps Marcus will be able to comment as to the timing for variable rate loans
  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017

    Yes agree that the update allows for fixed rate only at this time. Perhaps Marcus will be able to comment as to the timing for variable rate loans

    For what is worth, the Windows version has never had support for variable interest loans, at least not in the calculator.  And I do believe that fixed interest loans are more common than variable.  They certainly are a whole lot easier to calculate.

    In the case of the Windows version the only way they added loans that aren't fixed is by having them set to download from the financial institution, and then making what is downloaded control the whole process (user has no access to a register).

    Here is what the setup looks like in the Windows version:
    image
  • RickORickO SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    I'm not a loan expert, but I would think you could "simulate" variable rate by, when the rate changes, essentially starting the loan over with a new rate, beginning balance and term. The rate on variables doesn't change often enough, usually, for that to be too much of a burden. (Not saying it wouldn't be a nice to have feature.)
    Quicken Mac Subscription; Quicken Mac user since the early 90s
  • smayer97smayer97 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017

    Yes agree that the update allows for fixed rate only at this time. Perhaps Marcus will be able to comment as to the timing for variable rate loans

    It is implemented very nicely in QM2007. Not perfect but you can get the job done. So Quicken has algorithms needed to make this work. Hopefully in the next major iteration they will implement this. 

    Markets change all the time and there was a time where variable rate loans were far more common. Regardless, they are still in use, so they should implemented it eventually. 

    If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.

    (Canadian  user since '92, STILL using QM2007)

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  • smayer97smayer97 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    BTW, it is not a FLAW...it is by design as they wanted to get out the door some version of loan management.

    Hopefully, variable rates will be implemented soon after. Many users still need them, and having a PFM software that lacks this is like having a calculator that only does addition, subtraction, and multiplication but not division, or whatever.

    If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.

    (Canadian  user since '92, STILL using QM2007)

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  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    RickO said:

    I'm not a loan expert, but I would think you could "simulate" variable rate by, when the rate changes, essentially starting the loan over with a new rate, beginning balance and term. The rate on variables doesn't change often enough, usually, for that to be too much of a burden. (Not saying it wouldn't be a nice to have feature.)

    If the Mac version works like the Windows version you wouldn't have to start the loan over.  The windows version allows for changing the rate at any time.
  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    Yes agree that the update allows for fixed rate only at this time. Perhaps Marcus will be able to comment as to the timing for variable rate loans

    Frankly I don't think that is the "algorithms" that make this difficult.  It is just the simple fact that the financial institutions can come up with all kinds of different schemes, that basically make it extremely hard to capture.

    For instance in a simple case it might be something like, for 7 years you get rate X, but then it switches to rate Y.

    But it can also be you have a fixed rate X for 7 years, and then it changes to 1 percent above CPI.  Since CPI is never known until it is locked in the for the year you basically can't predict the full payment schedule of the loan.

    Also in people have complained on here because Quicken's loan calculator didn't capture their car loan correctly.  Everything from a "constant interest rate", to things like having the day you pay affect the interest, to some really bizarre "periods".
  • smayer97smayer97 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    Yes agree that the update allows for fixed rate only at this time. Perhaps Marcus will be able to comment as to the timing for variable rate loans

    All true... but I would not expect Quicken to be able to track ALL these different types of scenarios. I think that would be overkill, and possibly even madness to even try. I have always seen Quicken as simply a way to track an approximation to the actual loan, then during reconciliation which only needs to match the payments, a user can simply enter any adjustments to both principle and interest to match any statements, etc.

    QM2007 has a simple ability to track variable rates such that when payment is made, a user has to opportunity to enter the new and current rate. 

    So I have always done adjustments at the end of the year to match the bank's records before doing any tax reports, etc (the only place it really matters; in my mind, all others are for personal benefit anyways).

    So, I say, keep it simple from a user interface perspective, and just provide the ability to override as needed, creating multiple loan segments if needed, etc. Otherwise, you may get into an over-engineering of the product.

    That is why I said, the algorithms exist (in QM2007) to handle this already.

    If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.

    (Canadian  user since '92, STILL using QM2007)

    Have Questions? Check out these FAQs:
  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    Yes agree that the update allows for fixed rate only at this time. Perhaps Marcus will be able to comment as to the timing for variable rate loans

    The fact that there is a pull down menu to select Fixed, and one would presume in the future variable, my bet would be on them over engineering it.

    It sounds like Quicken Mac 2007 had the same as what the Windows version has (which makes perfect sense), that you change the rate at any time.  Given that you aren't even really calculating "variable".
  • FONFON Member
    edited May 2017
    Thanks all for weighing in. My loan is fixed for seven years (until 11/2019), then begins adjusting one per year. I would be fine to change the loan rate at that point, but it seems like a fairly simple exercise to just get it right. If I have to make an adjustment every month, I might as well just keep tracking it manually as I am doing now.
    If I use a 30-year fixed at that percentage, Quicken gets close, but I see that I would have to add $0.35 to the principal every month, so--as I sad--might as well keep tracking manually.
  • smayer97smayer97 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    Yes agree that the update allows for fixed rate only at this time. Perhaps Marcus will be able to comment as to the timing for variable rate loans

    Then it sounds like QWin and QM2007 are very similar, or the same...
    In QM2007, when you set up the loan, you can specify whether it is fixed or variable rate. Which you choose determines if the option to adjust the rate shows up each time you make a payment. Is this what exists in QWin? If so, I think that would be sufficient in QM2017 too...

    If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.

    (Canadian  user since '92, STILL using QM2007)

    Have Questions? Check out these FAQs:
  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    Yes agree that the update allows for fixed rate only at this time. Perhaps Marcus will be able to comment as to the timing for variable rate loans

    Quicken Windows doesn't have any kind of popup.  I think that might even be pretty irritating.  After all for most transactions nothing will change.  An example of what it looks like in Quicken 2017:  And now that I look at it I see they do have some support for variable loans.
    image
    Clicking on the interest rate "Edit"
    image
    Expanding the Adjustable- rate section and clicking on Add new rate button.
    image
  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    but it seems like a fairly simple exercise to just get it right.
    Personally I don't see that at all.  I actually see it next to impossible.  The best they can do is find out what the majority of the financial institutions do, and provide options for that.

    With the exception of a "constant interest rate" there is in fact no "variable" calculation.  There can't be you don't know what your future rates will be.

    The way interest and principal is calculated is just current principal * interest rate for that period.
    If I have a 5% loan compounded monthly and I have 10,000 left on the loan the next month's interest is: 10,000 (.05 /12) = 41.67.

    Notice that how long I have left to pay it off has no bearing on the calculation.
    But what I will need to make an exact prediction is every single rate change until the loan is paid off.
    This information is "unknowable".

    So In fact what the financial institution it doing is making some kind of prediction how the future adjusting rates are going to affect the overall loan, and they factor that into what you are paying even before your rate becomes "variable".

    So in fact the reason that your calculation for the month isn't right is because the interest rate isn't right (or they have a hidden fee to compensate).  It has been adjusted to take into account the future.

    So my big question would be do all financial institutions make the same adjustment?

    I would bet the answer is no.
  • smayer97smayer97 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    Yes agree that the update allows for fixed rate only at this time. Perhaps Marcus will be able to comment as to the timing for variable rate loans

    No...not really annoying...pop-up occurs when applying the payment... it only adds an extra click when you apply the payment. And for most, that would be once a month...how much of an inconvenience is that?

    If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.

    (Canadian  user since '92, STILL using QM2007)

    Have Questions? Check out these FAQs:
  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    Yes agree that the update allows for fixed rate only at this time. Perhaps Marcus will be able to comment as to the timing for variable rate loans

    Not much of an inconvenience, but frankly none of this is, people are way overreacting in my view.  But lets just compare, one extra click for each payment vs none for 7 years while it is "fixed", and then once every year after that.

    But in fact as you can read about FON's problem below, it is in fact not the ability to change the interest rate that he/she is concerned with.  It is the fact that he/she is actually not paying the the interest rate stated or is paying some kind of extra hidden fee to compensate for the fact that the loan is going to vary in the future.
  • Quicken MarcusQuicken Marcus Employee ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    We do not support variable rate loans in 4.5.x.  We continue to work on the loan feature but can't say when we will add it.  The current designs we have are based on QWin which basically has a table with dates and interest rates.  One can add a new date and interest rate and the loan model will take these changes into account going forward.  Think of the stock price history table but filled with interest rates.  The user will have to manually enter these changes because we don't currently get the interest rate in the transaction download.
  • AnnieZ-DAnnieZ-D Member
    edited June 2017

    We do not support variable rate loans in 4.5.x.  We continue to work on the loan feature but can't say when we will add it.  The current designs we have are based on QWin which basically has a table with dates and interest rates.  One can add a new date and interest rate and the loan model will take these changes into account going forward.  Think of the stock price history table but filled with interest rates.  The user will have to manually enter these changes because we don't currently get the interest rate in the transaction download.

    How do you handle prime floating rates such as HELOCs? As the rate environment environment becomes more dynamic the functionality to reflect day of rate changes should be included. I've tried adding it as a Loan and as a mortgage and neither have the floating rate option.
  • smayer97smayer97 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2017

    We do not support variable rate loans in 4.5.x.  We continue to work on the loan feature but can't say when we will add it.  The current designs we have are based on QWin which basically has a table with dates and interest rates.  One can add a new date and interest rate and the loan model will take these changes into account going forward.  Think of the stock price history table but filled with interest rates.  The user will have to manually enter these changes because we don't currently get the interest rate in the transaction download.

    HELOC's are to be entered as a Credit Card account type. You simply enter the actual interest amount at the necessary intervals. 

    (If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

    If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.

    (Canadian  user since '92, STILL using QM2007)

    Have Questions? Check out these FAQs:
  • MotoTomMotoTom Member
    edited August 2017
    QPW said:

    but it seems like a fairly simple exercise to just get it right.
    Personally I don't see that at all.  I actually see it next to impossible.  The best they can do is find out what the majority of the financial institutions do, and provide options for that.

    With the exception of a "constant interest rate" there is in fact no "variable" calculation.  There can't be you don't know what your future rates will be.

    The way interest and principal is calculated is just current principal * interest rate for that period.
    If I have a 5% loan compounded monthly and I have 10,000 left on the loan the next month's interest is: 10,000 (.05 /12) = 41.67.

    Notice that how long I have left to pay it off has no bearing on the calculation.
    But what I will need to make an exact prediction is every single rate change until the loan is paid off.
    This information is "unknowable".

    So In fact what the financial institution it doing is making some kind of prediction how the future adjusting rates are going to affect the overall loan, and they factor that into what you are paying even before your rate becomes "variable".

    So in fact the reason that your calculation for the month isn't right is because the interest rate isn't right (or they have a hidden fee to compensate).  It has been adjusted to take into account the future.

    So my big question would be do all financial institutions make the same adjustment?

    I would bet the answer is no.That's not exactly what they're doing. With a variable rate loan, the payment is calculated based on the remaining period of the loan at the current rate. So the length of time remaining on the loan does, in fact, have a bearing on the calculation.

    In other words, a variable rate loan is amortized exactly the same as a fixed rate mortgage. It's just that at each rate adjustment, the loan is re-amortized using the new rate, the remaining principal, and the remaining time.
  • edited March 2018

    We do not support variable rate loans in 4.5.x.  We continue to work on the loan feature but can't say when we will add it.  The current designs we have are based on QWin which basically has a table with dates and interest rates.  One can add a new date and interest rate and the loan model will take these changes into account going forward.  Think of the stock price history table but filled with interest rates.  The user will have to manually enter these changes because we don't currently get the interest rate in the transaction download.

    Any update on the implementation of this? I just ran into this issue as well.
This discussion has been closed.