Quicken 2016 Premier - why does onestep update bog PC down?

This has been ongoing for a while so it's more of a curiosity than anything.
Quicken 2016 Premier (again has done this pretty much from day 1), when performing Onestep Update (the big blue circle arrow button), it basically makes the PC slow to a crawl when it's downloading things.  You can't even type in Notepad or anything for several minutes.

Windows Resource Monitor shows it's 100% CPU utilization and for some reason Quicken is loading WmiPrvSE.exe that seems to be the initial culprit (kill that and then all of a sudden things move a long for a bit, then it re-launches wmiprv.exe and then you'll see qw.exe take over for CPU hogging as the downloads are completed).

In other words, from the time you click the One Step update, until the window for the Vault pops up, the CPU is pegged with the WMI service that quicken seems to be launching.  End that, and all of a sudden the Vault window pops up, but as soon as you enter your credentials, WMI gets launched again and the PC bogs down while you watch the downloads start.  Once the downloads complete (even one of them--which can take several minutes), then qw.exe takes over with the CPU.

Once the downloads are complete, all is well again.  WMI is no longer CPU hogging.


Win 7 64-bit Home
8 GB RAM
1 TB SSD
AMD FX-6100 Zambezi 6-Core 3.3 GHz CPU

Comments

  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    I'm not sure of what is going on, on your machine.  When I do an One Step Update the CPU usage never goes over about 25%, with Quicken getting about half of that and various other system processes getting the rest.

    Now mind you I have seen where I can't type in other applications because Quicken seems doing something that is delaying that input from getting to the other application.  As in I type an one letter I get one letter show up, a delay, and then another, ...

    My machine is a Windows 10 Pro, with 12GB memory, an AMD A10-5800K with Radeon HD Graphics, 4 cores running at 3.8GHz.

    At times I have seen long delays before the Password Vault dialog comes up, but with very little CPU usage, I believe it is just waiting on some Quicken server.

    EDIT:  I forgot to mention I'm using the 2018 release of Quicken R12.5.  But I don't really think this kind of thing has changed.  I didn't see the kind of problem you are talking about in any version of Quicken.
  • SherlockSherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    I'm using Quicken Premier 2016 R18.4 on Windows 7 64-bit Home with 8GB memory, 750 GB 7200 rpm SATA HDD, Intel i5 2520M 2.5Ghz CPU, display using remote desktop, and do not have any performance issues while running One Step Update to pull data for 19 Direct Connect Quicken accounts from 9 financial institutions (12 accounts) and quotes and history for 22 securities.  For example, during today's run, cpu initially jumped to 22%, pulled back to 10% or less during the bulk of the run, jumped to 38% at completion, and immediately dropped back to zero as seen using task manager.  

    For what it's worth, WMIPrvSE.exe usage is likely triggered by the use of the Windows Resource Monitor (not Quicken).
    Quicken user since 1997 
    Premier on Windows 7 
  • Rick GumpertzRick Gumpertz Member
    edited October 2018
    25% CPU usage on a 4-core processor does not surprise me: On a 4-core processor, CPU usage cannot by a single-threaded app like Quicken cannot exceed 25%.  This is because it can only use 1 core and Windows reports CPU usage as a percentage of all four cores.

    As for the Original Poster seeing 100% with his 6-core CPU, that is a mystery to me: I would have expected to see 17% max.

    Note that Intel processors with Hyper-Threading are counted by Windows as having twice as many cores as they really have.  For example, Quicken shouldn't exceed 12.5% on an 4-core processor with hyper-threading,  Furthermore, because each pair of hyper-threaded virtual processors share hardware with each other, even with all 8 threads running at full speed the total will probably never reach 100%.  A total 60-75% is more typical for a fully loaded set of 4 cores.
  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018

    25% CPU usage on a 4-core processor does not surprise me: On a 4-core processor, CPU usage cannot by a single-threaded app like Quicken cannot exceed 25%.  This is because it can only use 1 core and Windows reports CPU usage as a percentage of all four cores.

    As for the Original Poster seeing 100% with his 6-core CPU, that is a mystery to me: I would have expected to see 17% max.

    Note that Intel processors with Hyper-Threading are counted by Windows as having twice as many cores as they really have.  For example, Quicken shouldn't exceed 12.5% on an 4-core processor with hyper-threading,  Furthermore, because each pair of hyper-threaded virtual processors share hardware with each other, even with all 8 threads running at full speed the total will probably never reach 100%.  A total 60-75% is more typical for a fully loaded set of 4 cores.

    Quicken isn't single threaded, even though it feels like it at times.  Now that isn't to say that a lot of the code is single threaded, and not properly using the threading that is available.  There is most likely a lot of waiting on certain threads.  But no program using any of GUIs in the last 15 years or are single threaded, and program using .Net can't be.

    Just during One Step Update you have the constant (and bad) updating of the GUI, the updating of the database, and fetching of the transactions.  And for Express Web Connect it does multiple financial institutions at the same time.

    This is during One Step Update:
    image

    Here is a display of its threads:
    image
  • Rick GumpertzRick Gumpertz Member
    edited October 2018

    25% CPU usage on a 4-core processor does not surprise me: On a 4-core processor, CPU usage cannot by a single-threaded app like Quicken cannot exceed 25%.  This is because it can only use 1 core and Windows reports CPU usage as a percentage of all four cores.

    As for the Original Poster seeing 100% with his 6-core CPU, that is a mystery to me: I would have expected to see 17% max.

    Note that Intel processors with Hyper-Threading are counted by Windows as having twice as many cores as they really have.  For example, Quicken shouldn't exceed 12.5% on an 4-core processor with hyper-threading,  Furthermore, because each pair of hyper-threaded virtual processors share hardware with each other, even with all 8 threads running at full speed the total will probably never reach 100%.  A total 60-75% is more typical for a fully loaded set of 4 cores.

    OK, I was exaggerating a bit for simplicity.  In my experience, Quicken rarely exceeds one thread-worth of CPU utilization during OSU by much.  Notice that almost all the CPU in your example is attributed to the top thread!

    If the OP is really seeing 100% CPU utilization on a 6-core processor by Quicken, that still surprises me.
  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018

    25% CPU usage on a 4-core processor does not surprise me: On a 4-core processor, CPU usage cannot by a single-threaded app like Quicken cannot exceed 25%.  This is because it can only use 1 core and Windows reports CPU usage as a percentage of all four cores.

    As for the Original Poster seeing 100% with his 6-core CPU, that is a mystery to me: I would have expected to see 17% max.

    Note that Intel processors with Hyper-Threading are counted by Windows as having twice as many cores as they really have.  For example, Quicken shouldn't exceed 12.5% on an 4-core processor with hyper-threading,  Furthermore, because each pair of hyper-threaded virtual processors share hardware with each other, even with all 8 threads running at full speed the total will probably never reach 100%.  A total 60-75% is more typical for a fully loaded set of 4 cores.

    Agreed.  Let's face it, Quicken was never designed with multiple threads in mind.
    They barely keep it together that the threading that they do have doesn't crash it all the time.
  • QPWQPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018

    25% CPU usage on a 4-core processor does not surprise me: On a 4-core processor, CPU usage cannot by a single-threaded app like Quicken cannot exceed 25%.  This is because it can only use 1 core and Windows reports CPU usage as a percentage of all four cores.

    As for the Original Poster seeing 100% with his 6-core CPU, that is a mystery to me: I would have expected to see 17% max.

    Note that Intel processors with Hyper-Threading are counted by Windows as having twice as many cores as they really have.  For example, Quicken shouldn't exceed 12.5% on an 4-core processor with hyper-threading,  Furthermore, because each pair of hyper-threaded virtual processors share hardware with each other, even with all 8 threads running at full speed the total will probably never reach 100%.  A total 60-75% is more typical for a fully loaded set of 4 cores.

    BTW CPU usage isn't really a good indicator if a system will "bog down" or not.

    Imagine a computer that has only one program running on it and only one processor/core.   And that program is computing Pi.  If the operating system doesn't give it all that core's processing time it is going to be slowing down that calculation for no reason.

    Now you start up a second program and it wants CPU time, it is the operating systems responsibility to divide up the time given to each of these programs.  And if nothing is "forced" it will give them equal time if they both are constantly wanting CPU time.

    There should be no way for program A to take all of the CPU time, so that program B doesn't have it.

    And when you bring in multiple cores, it is even more unlikely,

    So how does a program like Quicken (or any program) "bog down" a system?

    The answer is doing I/O.  The Windows operating system isn't multiple threaded at the device level.  Also it is very hard to track the low level system CPU usage in Windows.

    If a program constantly requests information or transfers information from a I/O device (which is basically any hardware) that becomes the bottleneck.

    Quicken isn't a "good citizen", it you can see this when you try to run One Step Update and then go type into another program.  You will sometimes get delays on the characters being displayed, and even every once in a while Quicken will grab the keyboard focus and your keystrokes will go into Quicken instead of the other program.

    But this kind of "bogging down" the system doesn't produce high CPU usage, so I'm not sure where the problem is coming from.
  • Kevin HurniKevin Hurni Member
    edited October 2018

    Thanks all.  I'll see if I can do some more diagnosis and maybe even take a video (if it'll even record).   Although as others have observed, yes, try to do a onestep update and then try to type an email or something else.  In my case, if I'm lucky to even get the email window to pop up, it's next to impossible to type a simple sentence whilst the Onestep update is running (it's worse than SSH into a server across a clogged T1-WAN link).
     
    It's gotten worse since the last few updates to Quicken to be honest.  Quicken 2016 R18.4 

    I mean it's always been a bit of a hog, but not like this.

    Although I suppose it's almost time to do a  fresh install of Windows 10 and be done with it (the Windows 10 part).
This discussion has been closed.