Extortion attempts to upgrade? Class action suit maybe?

Mark478 · January 25

With the number of users that are not completely satisfied with their quicken, maybe it would be better for quicken to offer a reasonable price for the tools they will lose if they don't choose to pay for the whole upgrade. Might be better than a class action lawsuit.

mshiggins · January 25

Yes please you start one.

NotACPA · January 25

But, just as an FYI, when subscriptions start to expire, there are threats EVERY YEAR to start a class action suit.

BUT, they never go anywhere, because you agreed to the discontinuation of services via the "End User License Agreement" that you agreed to when you installed Q.

How do I know that you agreed to it? Because Q wouldn't have installed had you not agreed.

SO, you're basically trying to void a contract that you signed and have enjoyed the benefits of for several (up to 3.5) years.

That's "having your cake and eating it too".

Mark478 · January 25

So you are not a CPA, but case history in some states might disagree on their methods of not warning about what the user agreed to until the final option.

GeoffG · January 25

So can you explain the end state of class action lawsuit against Quicken Inc.?

Mark478 · January 25

Depending on the state the class action is filed, would probably minimal damages awarded to the claimants to possible reinstatement of tools in quicken that were removed, reinstated. Also depends on the presiding judge and how bad quicken wants to keep customers in that state.

splasher · January 25

Been on this and prior forums for some time and I have NEVER seen/heard of someone actually carrying through on their empty threat of filing a Class Action Suit.

Please, make my day, file one. Be sure and post that you have done so here on this forum so that I can follow its process.

GeoffG · January 25

So what is your solution when private equity firm H.I.G. Capital who owns Quicken decides this niche personal finance software is no longer worthwhile and pulls the plug?

Mark478 · January 25

splasher said:
Been on this and prior forums for some time and I have NEVER seen/heard of someone actually carrying through on their empty threat of filing a Class Action Suit.

Please, make my day, file one. Be sure and post that you have done so here on this forum so that I can follow its process.

I'm in no way threatening, all I'm saying is that Quicken has every right to charge all of us however, the tactic they use could be in question in some states. Everyone on here is guilty of not reading the EULA and thinks they are hosed. But if a judge knows that you have not been contacted about this for 3 years since you purchased the product and then receive an email 3 months before the deadline, it's a whole new ball game.

Mark478 · January 25

I guess I would go back to reconciling the old fashioned way with pencil and paper. Geoff you sure sound like you are defending the tactics that Quicken uses to get all of us to pay. Please tell me you are not in any way connected with Quicken or any of it's affiliates? Do you really think they would pull the plug? I think they would just come up with another way to get around it.

GeoffG · January 25

While I don't enjoy the subscription model, I do understand they need to find a way to survive. They no longer have multiple products for their revenue stream. I subscribe to cable internet access. I don't enjoy that either, but they are a business, that with the exception of a few momentary outages, provides a service. Do you realize the amount of infrastructure involved in maintaining a data center to support accessing financial service providers, development, support and security services. I get a tremendous value from having Quicken available to me and while Quicken has always been quirky and at times buggy, I'm not interested in looking for a better alternative, there isn't one at the present.

Mark478 · January 25

GeoffG said:
While I don't enjoy the subscription model, I do understand they need to find a way to survive. They no longer have multiple products for their revenue stream. I subscribe to cable internet access. I don't enjoy that either, but they are a business, that with the exception of a few momentary outages, provides a service. Do you realize the amount of infrastructure involved in maintaining a data center to support accessing financial service providers, development, support and security services. I get a tremendous value from having Quicken available to me and while Quicken has always been quirky and at times buggy, I'm not interested in looking for a better alternative, there isn't one at the present.

I agree with you, but hopefully you can see my point if they were brought to a class action. All they would have to do is send out constant reminders of what will happen if you don't upgrade. Instead of "here is your 40% off upgrade" maybe "here is your 40% upgrade offer" (reminder you will lose certain capabilities after 3 years without an upgrade). I went back through all of my emails from quicken and the only one that was critical was today's after I skipped all of the upgrade offers. Also you didn't answer my question. Do you work for Quicken or any of there affiliates?

NotACPA · January 25

Mark said:
So you are not a CPA, but case history in some states might disagree on their methods of not warning about what the user agreed to until the final option.

True, I'm not a CPA. I'm a retired "Certified Info Sys Auditor" and the former VP and manager of Computer Fraud Investigations for Wells Fargo & Co.

The few people that I know who are both CPAs and CISAs will tell you that the CISA certification is every bit as hard to get as the CPA certification.

The primary difference is that CPAs must know Accrual based accounting ... but nothing about computers, while CISAs need to know the computer in and out, but not Accrual Accounting (i.e., the timing and recognition of income and expenses).

Q doesn't do true Accrual Accounting ... it's a "cash basis" system.

I've joked on many occasions that the letters CPA and CPU are mutual exclusive. If you've got one it's unlikely that you understand the other.

And, I challenge you to demonstrate where 3 months isn't adequate notice for the expiration of a contract ... that you signed.

GeoffG · January 25

GeoffG said:
While I don't enjoy the subscription model, I do understand they need to find a way to survive. They no longer have multiple products for their revenue stream. I subscribe to cable internet access. I don't enjoy that either, but they are a business, that with the exception of a few momentary outages, provides a service. Do you realize the amount of infrastructure involved in maintaining a data center to support accessing financial service providers, development, support and security services. I get a tremendous value from having Quicken available to me and while Quicken has always been quirky and at times buggy, I'm not interested in looking for a better alternative, there isn't one at the present.

Their renewal nags have been justifiably criticized, but I never see them as my subscription is current. I select what posts to respond to and what questions to answer. My employment or affiliation with Quicken is irrelevant. I could ask if you work for a legal firm, but I haven't. I expressed my opinion on why I want to see Quicken software to succeed now an into the future. That will need to suffice.

Mark478 · January 25

Mark said:
So you are not a CPA, but case history in some states might disagree on their methods of not warning about what the user agreed to until the final option.

Depends on the state CISA, and actually it's not the contract I'm concerned about it's their method of enforcement. As I've said I'm not arguing that they don't have the right to charge you, but I know some judges that would look seriously at how they make offers of discounts with no mention of termination until the last offer 3 months before. Any attorney will tell you that any contract can be challenged and beat.

SimonSezSo · January 25

Mark Thome if you are unsatisfied with the Quicken program and the services it provides, then you have every right NOT to use their program or services. Plain and simple. But, you agreed to the terms of using their software and services when you installed their software program. Bottom line, even if you think the product is substandard, you used Quicken, and continue to use Quicken, and thus, need to pay for their services. When your current Quicken subscription expires, you have two choices, (1) renew your subscription, or (2) find another software program or method to manage your finances. In the meantime, complaints without substance will accomplish little.

Mark478 · January 25

Simon, maybe you should read other comments before posting.

SimonSezSo · January 25

Mark said:
Simon, maybe you should read other comments before posting.

Mark, I have read many, if not all of the other comments in this forum regarding this topic. In my opinion, mostly unwarranted "mob mentality". Empty complaints (or threats) are easy to post. What's more difficult, is to contribute constructive feedback that would help improve Quicken, or help Quicken users become more enlightened. If you have any insight to how to make Quicken better, or help your fellow users understand Quicken better, I am sure it would be very welcomed.

Extortion attempts to upgrade? Class action suit maybe?

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