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Navy Federal Credit Union-2FA

This discussion was created from comments split from: Two Factor Authentication Problems with USAA.
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  • isonclubikinisonclubikin Member ✭✭
    I know that, theoretically, all banks should force 2FA. But, because of Quicken, I'm hoping USAA doesn't. Because there doesn't seem to be any way to get Quicken to be "remembered" as authorized via 2FA, I just can't turn it on. Right now, I'm having issues with Navy Federal Credit Union randomly turning on (or trying to turn on) 2FA. If all my banks made that mandatory, I'd have to go through about a dozen authentication routines every time I had Quicken connect. I just can't do that. Quicken and the banks need to work together and find some way to get Quicken "remembered."
  • isonclubikinisonclubikin Member ✭✭
    I asked NFCU about this and got the following as a reply:

    "Navy Federal Response 03/27/2020 :
    .... Our 2-Step verification recently has become a mandatory service and cannot be disabled. However, Quicken has installed a work around that will allow your transactions to bypass the 2-Step verification so you may download your transactions from your Navy Federal account to their software...."

    So, does anyone know what this "work around" is? I've looked through the forum and can't find a solution. The closest I can find is to use Direct Connect instead of Express Web Connect. And, AFAIK, Direct Connect isn't available for NFCU.
  • Chris_QPWChris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    @isonclubikin Have you tried using "Update Now" from the account instead of One Step Update?

    One Step Update tends to be "non interactive", and "Update Now" is "interactive" so that the user can respond to questions from the financial institution.

    The short cut for "Update Now" in the register is Ctrl+Alt+U
    (I'm using the latest Quicken subscription version)
  • efishinseaefishinsea Member
    Update Now (Ctrl+Alt+U) still triggers the 2FA from NFCU.

    If Quicken had a work-around, it no longer seems to work. I end up having to cycling through the 2FA texts 2 or more times every time I update Quicken accounts.
  • Chris_QPWChris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    Well I expected the it to trigger the 2FA, but the hope was that once it was done it would then work for you without it.

    Frankly it really depends on how the financial institution is doing it, and somewhat on Quicken.

    If the financial institution has chosen to force the user to answer the 2FA questions for every login and doesn't have a "trust this device" kind of option, there isn't anything a program like Quicken can do about it. Express Web Connect is basically a server logging into their web site for you, if you are being forced to do it, then a problem like Quicken will be forced to do it too.

    Now a lot of financial institutions have a "trust the device" kind setting, which basically the web server storing a "cookie" with a special key in that will read every time you log in, that lets it know the device/web browser/... is trusted.

    If this is the case and Quicken stores/retrieves it correctly then that is how you get to not having to enter it every time.

    Note that the reason Direct Connect is a solution is because it isn't the financial institution's website. Direct Connect is the OFX protocol designed for this kind of communication. So it is a special server software at the financial institution and it has its own security model separate from the policies of the financial institution's website.
    (I'm using the latest Quicken subscription version)
  • xssncoxssnco Member ✭✭
    There is not a month goes by where I have a CC502 issue with Navy Federal Credit Union...Happened again on 3/26, nine days after Quicken Natalie said the issue was resolved…Seems to always occur after a software update which indicates to me the new version of software has not been adequately validated and verified. For the life of me I don't understand why Quicken can't fix this. That's what we pay the annual subscription fee for. Have been using Quicken for over 20 years and it just keeps getting worse and worse...
  • Chris_QPWChris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    > @xssnco said:
    > There is not a month goes by where I have a CC502 issue with Navy Federal Credit Union...Happened again on 3/26, nine days after Quicken Natalie said the issue was resolved…Seems to always occur after a software update which indicates to me the new version of software has not been adequately validated and verified. For the life of me I don't understand why Quicken can't fix this. That's what we pay the annual subscription fee for. Have been using Quicken for over 20 years and it just keeps getting worse and worse...

    I would bet that it is only a coincidence that problems seem to popup after updates to Quicken.

    Express Web Connect by its very nature is unstable. I have a few Express Web Connect accounts and I EXPECT one of more to give me problems at least in about a 2 month period.

    Express Web Connect's "protocol" can be summarized as "Try to log into the financial institution's website as the user, and retrieve the transactions is 'some form', and translate that format if needed, and store it so that Quicken can pick it up (in OFX format)".

    This means that Quicken is communicating with Intuit's servers (Quicken Inc pays Intuit for this service) and it is Intuit's servers that do the logging into the financial institution's website servers. It also means that this is all subject to the financial institution's log in procedures and other kinds of website changes that the financial institution might make. And note that even though Intuit gets agreements with the financial institutions on how to transfer the transactions and what format it will be in, there isn't any standard so they have to deal with the fact that different financial institutions might want to do it differently. This in fact determines how stable a given financial institutions downloading is. The more they change their processes and such and even how they decided to do this data exchange determines how reliable it is. That is why some financial institutions seem to have problems all the time, where others can be as stable as Direct Connect.

    Direct Connect/OFX protocol is a standardized protocol where Quicken (the program) talks directly to a "OFX server" at the financial institution. Couple the fact that it is a standard with the fact that it is separate from the financial institution's website, make is much more stable. Unfortunately the financial institutions in the US have never fully supported any standardized protocol for downloading transaction or for bill presentment/bill payment.

    With addition of 2FA into the flow it has only got worse, and probably will continue to get even worse. In fact it might get so bad that there comes a time where there is very little difference between the user logging into each site manually, because they are forcing it all to be "interactive".
    (I'm using the latest Quicken subscription version)
  • lws57991lws57991 Member
    Navy Federal is the only account where I have these recurring problems. Does anybody know why? Maybe I need to stop banking with them?
  • johnodrakejohnodrake Member ✭✭✭
    While I am not getting an error code, NFCU is not functioning properly after starting to use two factor authentication. The authentication works and the one step update reports complete. There are, however no transactions downloaded. I have to go back to NFCU and manually download the transactions - which works. Something broke with the two factor authentication
  • Dale GDale G Member ✭✭
    I, too, experience too many prompts for the 2FA code (by text or email, I get the choice, whoohoo) when I perform OSU. Since I normally run OSU twice a day or more, the time wasted adds up.
    FYI, The original thread was marked resolved and closed on 3/19/2020.
    https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20076539
  • johnodrakejohnodrake Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 28
    Navy Federal apparently wen to a two factor authentication protocol with Quicken

    The protocol works and the one step update shows complete, but the program does not download any transactions. I have to go to NFCU and download from the account.
  • BoatnmaniacBoatnmaniac SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5
    Unfortunately, OSU (with multiple accounts being updated) and 2FA often don't play well together...at least for me.  I have 3 different accounts in 2 different data files that require 2FA.  Two of them never update during OSU.  The other will update during OSU only once in a while.
    I'm also guessing that your Navy Federal account is not really updating during OSU, too.  Don't rely on the update status to the right of the Financial Institution in Update Summary as that is not always accurate.  Instead, in the Update Summary click on the blue link under Navy Federal saying how many accounts were updated and you will get a popup which shows the actual date of the last update.
    What does work well for me is to update each of the 2FA accounts individually.  Hardly ever a problem.: 
    • Account Register > Gear icon (top right corner) > Update Now.
    I've resorted to removing all 3 of the 2FA accounts from OSU (unchecking them in OSU Settings, not deactivating them) and only updating these 2FA accounts individually.  It's frustrating and I shouldn't have to do this but until Quicken fixes this issue it's the only way that works consistently.  You might want to consider doing the same with your Navy Federal account.
    (QW Premier R26.23 on Windows 10)
    If my reply has helpful to you, please "Like" it so others may know it might help them, too.
  • johnodrakejohnodrake Member ✭✭✭
    That's what I have been seeing as well. I will leave the OSU box checked, but I know I have to check the accounts and download from there. It is frustrating. I think there should be more testing before things are changed live by Quicken, and Quicken should tell us when something is broken that they cannot fix on their end. I have complained twice to NFCU on their site. My guess is there is something that they have to do to make it work right.
  • BoatnmaniacBoatnmaniac SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    I'm assuming from your reply that using "Update Now" has worked for you.  Let me know if that is not the case.
    I agree that it sometimes appears Quicken does not fully vet program changes they make before implementing them.  2FA was something essentially forced on them by the FIs.  I think the process in general works well (as is evidenced by the fact that it works well with "Update Now") but OSU has a number of reliability issues, especially with EWC connections.  (I don't find many issues with DC connection accounts except when the FI's make system/security changes that were not coordinated well with Quicken.)  It seems to me that something in OSU times out preventing accounts from consistently completing updates, sometimes generating a number of error codes that you see users complaining about in this Community.  "Update Now" will fix many of those errors that come up but many users aren't aware of that and instead post complaints here.  Community posts would drop considerably and user satisfaction would increase a lot if Quicken would fix OSU but I'm not sure why they haven't prioritized this.  Makes no sense to me.
    (QW Premier R26.23 on Windows 10)
    If my reply has helpful to you, please "Like" it so others may know it might help them, too.
  • Dale GDale G Member ✭✭
    Update. De and re-activating doesn't help. My Navy Fed accounts were activated long before they implemented this 2FA prompt. I de-activated my Navy Fed accounts and re-activated them. The 2FA prompts continue occurring just as often as before.
  • Quicken AnjaQuicken Anja Moderator mod
    Hello @isonclubikin,

    Thank you for reaching out to the Community regarding your issue and I'm sorry to hear that you are experiencing this.

    I did some searching around and found the following information regarding 2-step verification on NFCU's website (see screenshot below)--



    If you haven't already-- I suggest calling the number highlighted in yellow.

    Alternatively, you may also try contacting Quicken Support via phone or chat for a one-on-one troubleshooting session with one of our support agents.

    -Quicken Anja

    Quicken Support Current Hours of Operation:
    8:00 am - 5:00 pm PDT
    • Quicken Phone Support - Monday through Friday
    • Quicken Chat Support - 7 days a week
    -Quicken Anja
  • Dale GDale G Member ✭✭
    I daresay I'd be alarmed if Quicken allowed access to browser activity and cookies, let alone stored secure information anywhere other than the Quicken file.
    Quicken should have it's own secure back-end web interface. Which means Quicken should be remembering and storing all 2FA registered devices and all 2FA information for institutions like Navy Federal CU and storing it in the Quicken file.
  • Chris_QPWChris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    Dale G said:
    I daresay I'd be alarmed if Quicken allowed access to browser activity and cookies, let alone stored secure information anywhere other than the Quicken file.
    Quicken should have it's own secure back-end web interface. Which means Quicken should be remembering and storing all 2FA registered devices and all 2FA information for institutions like Navy Federal CU and storing it in the Quicken file.

    When you decide to use Express Web Connect you need to face a few facts.
    Quicken and the Intuit servers are going to have to take the role of your web browser to log into the financial institution's website.  And since basically all the websites use cookies to "save the 2FA, 'trust device' information, cookies have to be saved to have any chance at being able to do 2FA without constantly prompting for the "second authorization".  If the information isn't stored (and this up to the financial institution, then there is never a "trusted device" and as such you will be prompted every time you try to access an account.

    Needless to say not only does the financial institution have to have it setup to "trust a device" Quicken/Intuit servers have to "understand" how store and pass the information back.  There are standard HTML protocols for doing this and hopefully the financial institution is using them.

    Currently I don't know what "embedded web browser" Quicken is using for this, in the past it was IE, these days it might be Awesomium (based on Crome), or maybe some other one.  "embedded" means using the "back end libraries", which implies that the settings and systems like where cookies are stored would be controlled by those libraries not necessarily Quicken.

    This is the reason that why in the past changing the IE settings say to remove the cookies after every use of the IE browser would affect Quicken.

    Where the Intuit/Quicken servers come in is because they are in between Quicken and the financial institution's website.  These days it is hard to tell exactly what the communication process is like because some of the suggested ways it works don't line up with the way it seems to behave, but for sure is was originally designed as a non interactive system that logged in at night for the user.  This definitely means that the username and password, and cookies and such to get logged in are being stored on it at least in some cases.  For instance it would be impossible to use Quicken Web which downloads transactions directly without such information.

    Only Direct Connect ensures that the communication is only between Quicken and the financial institution.  And Direct Connect/QFX/OFX has it own server/security model at the financial institution, which means it isn't subject to these 2FA rules.
    (I'm using the latest Quicken subscription version)
  • johnodrakejohnodrake Member ✭✭✭
    Navy Federal is no help in addressing the issue. TFA works but no transactions downloaded with OSU. TFA works and all transactions are downloaded with UDN. Quicken programmers should be able to figure this one out

    Would Quicken like to update the community on this issue?
  • Dale GDale G Member ✭✭
    > @Quicken Anja said:
    > Hello @isonclubikin,
    >
    > Thank you for reaching out to the Community regarding your issue and I'm sorry to hear that you are experiencing this.
    >
    > I did some searching around and found the following information regarding 2-step verification on NFCU's website (see screenshot below)--
    >
    > (Image)
    >
    >
    > If you haven't already-- I suggest calling the number highlighted in yellow.
    >
    > Alternatively, you may also try contacting Quicken Support via phone or chat for a one-on-one troubleshooting session with one of our support agents.
    >
    > -Quicken Anja
    >
    > Quicken Support Current Hours of Operation:
    > 8:00 am - 5:00 pm PDT
    > * Quicken Phone Support - Monday through Friday
    > * Quicken Chat Support - 7 days a week

    Thank you for responding. This is not an individual setup problem. Although laudable, Navy Fed CU 2FA requires 2FA authentication every day, when it should register the Windows devices Quicken is installed on for thirty days or more. Many of us perform OSU at least daily and are now confronted with 2FA authentication challenges almost as often. What are Quicken and Navy Federal CU doing to resolved this daily problem?
  • The Covid 19 problem has passed. I am trying to update my accounts from Navy Federal. I get the error message. I can go on their site and see the accounts. I can download all the information except one. Why is this happening? There is NO connectivity problem like quicken says.
  • FrankxFrankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi @[email protected],

    Sorry to hear you are having problems with your NFCU accounts.

    If you give us a little more information, it will help to analyze your problem, as follows:

    1) What versions of Quicken & Windows are you using?
    2) Exactly what does the "error message" say?
    3) When you say you can "download all the information except one" are you saying that - through Quicken - all accounts are downloading properly except for one account, or is it something else?
    4) If the answer to 3) above is - "one account won;t download into Quicken" - which type of account is that (Share savings, checking, credit care, etc.?

    Get back to us and we'll see what we can do.

    Frankx


    Quicken H&B-Subscription - Ver. R26.23 - Build 27.1.26.23  - Windows 10 Home - Ver. 1909
                                             - - - - Quicken User since 1984 - - - 
      -  If you find this reply helpful, please click "Like" (below), so others will know! Thank you.  -
  • RichCavRichCav Member
    For my other banks, the one step update process works without having to complete two factor authentication when I run the Quicken app from a trusted computer. However, even though I have marked this computer as trusted on the NFCU web site, I am forced to complete the 2 step process each time. Any ideas?
  • Greg BrownGreg Brown Member ✭✭✭
    Same issue here...
  • johnodrakejohnodrake Member ✭✭✭
    What is interesting, I don't have TFA when I login to NFCU directly. Only when downloading from Quicken. TFA is available for direct login, but I have opted to not use it.
  • johnodrakejohnodrake Member ✭✭✭
    What say the Quicken reps?
  • BoatnmaniacBoatnmaniac SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    There is an Alert posted affecting many FIs (including credit unions) that you might want to read:  https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7874067/ongoing-4-16-20-you-may-experience-errors-updating-some-of-your-accounts#latest
    If you want to be kept updated on developments, bookmark the Article (click on the star to the right of the title).
    (QW Premier R26.23 on Windows 10)
    If my reply has helpful to you, please "Like" it so others may know it might help them, too.
  • johnodrakejohnodrake Member ✭✭✭
    Citicorp is the only listed institution that I experienced issues with. The NFCU issue predates the stimulus and is only happening with OSU
  • xssncoxssnco Member ✭✭
    I have emailed NFCU...They will not budge on 2FA....Why can't the interface be Direct Connect? Very frustrating to pay an annual fee for a service that rarely works
  • BoatnmaniacBoatnmaniac SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    As noted in the Alert, the number of FIs affected by this issue is bigger than what is in the list of of FIs included in the Alert.  NFCU not being specifically listed does not mean it's not been affected.
    Quicken Support has stated that what the 2FA requirements are for Quicken OSU are dictated to them by the FIs and that they have no control over that.  I don't buy that.  They might not control the actual requirements but they have a responsibility to influence it with the FIs.  For instance, the reason why 2FA is not required every time when logging into my online account is because my FI recognizes my device.  So, why is 2FA required for that FI every time I run OSU?  Is it because the FI does not recognize the Quicken/Intuit server?  Why not?  How can that be fixed?   Then there's also the whole reliability issue of 2FA in OSU.  Why does it rarely work with OSU but often works well with Update Now?  These are things Quicken should be able to fix and/or at least influence.  If Quicken is working the issue, they should be posting an Alert about it. But Quicken's silence on this speaks volumes.
    (QW Premier R26.23 on Windows 10)
    If my reply has helpful to you, please "Like" it so others may know it might help them, too.
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