Ability to hide or toggle off the new feature in sidebar, Separate Accounts (Q Mac)

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Comments

  • tim.rohrer
    tim.rohrer Member ✭✭✭
    As a (small time) developer, I understand the tension between preferences and simplified UI. In reality, the idea of "closed" versus "hidden" is largely semantics until one starts adding adjustments to bring balances to zero. Changing the way a program behaves to simply provide the concept of closed is shaky in my opinion, and in my particular use case.

    Frankly, I had a lot of hidden accounts, a number of which were from false starts seven years ago when I started using Quicken again after years of limited usability. It took me a fair amount of time (not "hours" I admit) to understand and go through all the accounts in order to close them. Then I went and and removed all of those that mysteriously got binned as "separate", because in reality I don't have any that fit that grouping. Later, I will start going through the reports to validate those (again). I'm still betting that when it is all said and done, I will have spent more that a couple hours doing this in order to comply with what is basically a semantics change.

    I am grateful Quicken has made progress and improvements to the program which makes it mostly useful for daily tracking of finances. However, it still comes up short in the areas of investing and asset/debt management. There are opportunities for significant improvements here. That is where I'd rather see Quicken developers spending their time.


  • shibushaji
    shibushaji Member
    I fully feel the pain of the OP and several posters here. There is a reason why we chose to hide the accounts. If anytime we need to search something from one, we can easily bring them back as needed, individually. I have used Quicken for over 10 years now and have gotten used to the interface. The most annoying thing is the separate accounts showing up under Net Worth. Net Worth is the first thing I look for and moving it's position in favor of Separate accounts is BS. I keep my foreign currency accounts there, which are not in Dollars (but shows as dollars, annoying!). Being a software developer, I understand providing feature for the masses, but at least provide an option to show or not show the hidden and separate accounts in the sidebar. There are many improvements Quicken on Mac can use, and this is definitely not one of them.
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    I fully feel the pain of the OP and several posters here....Being a software developer, I understand providing feature for the masses, but at least provide an option ...
    That is the problem... believing that developing software for the "masses" is the ultimate goal... Who are the "masses"?

    Just like Word Processors and Spreadsheets, they are tools...tools are and can be used in MANY different ways. When you strive to define "the masses" you ultimately alienate a LARGE part that are NOT "the masses", which are often a much larger group than anticipated. Then again, thinking that "the masses" ONLY behave or should behave a certain way often misses the mark.

    There is a reason Quicken of old has so many features or OPTIONS...because people do things, and sometimes NEED to do things, differently than the so-called "masses".

    Quicken should be built with options, especially since its predecessors are mature products that evolved to meet the needs of many users. I know there are features and options that may not need to be replicated, but I would argue that there are few that do not.

    That is why I advocate when implementing a feature that was already present in earlier versions to look at the full scope of what it did and unless there is a good reason NOT to implement the full set, implement it fully. And when introducing a new feature, to consider multiple ways (read, options) that users may need to use a feature. For this kind of software, there is rarely a one-size-fits-all approach. Past versions recognized that.
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    (Canadian user since '92, STILL using QM2007)
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    The development model for Quicken Mac for the past 6 years has been to not implement every option and setting and preference and bell and whistle that may have been present in Quicken 2007. The product manager has repeatedly communicated that they do iterative development of features, where they release something that may be the 'Chevy' version rather than the everything-and-the-kitchen-sink 'Cadillac' version. I think there are two reasons for this. (1) It allows them to release a feature that may satisfy 50% or 70% or 90% of users' needs faster than if they tried to add lots of more complex options. (2) It allows them to listen to and gauge user feedback (here in this forum, but also from their Support interactions) to decide if they need to add more options or tweaks, and to only add things usrers are actually asking for.

    Just because Quicken 2007 was programmed, over the course of decades, with hundreds and thousands of nooks and crannies doesn't mean every one of those options is needed by most users. In software development, bloat from adding features years after year for many years creates problems because programs become so complex that tweaking a small something here may have an unintended consequence over there. So for some of the features the developers add, they ask themselves, "do users need this? want this? use this?" -- and sometimes they either don't know or make an incorrect assumption. But in an iterative environment, that's not considered a failure; it simply validates whether additional functionality is needed.

    The releases earlier this year for QuickFill rules are a good example of the developers putting out what they thought most users wanted; they missed on several counts, and it took two more releases until they refined the interface, options and preferences to satisfy most users.

    Not all of us may agree with this approach to development, but this is how Quicken Mac development has worked since the next-generation Quicken Mac debuted in 2014, and it seems unlikely to change.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser, Mac Beta, Canada Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    ...doesn't mean every one of those options is needed by most users....

    That is at the heart of the issue...what is considered "most users"?! Many times "most users" leaves out a very large crowd of already existing users that are dependent on the full implementation of a feature...this has been demonstrated over and over again in this forum.

    Then it leaves the remaining users (smaller "majority"?) to have to fight to try to get the extra part of a feature, with a "smaller" voice.

    The fact is that sometimes the extra effort to put in the extra option is actually NOT significant but does create a significant amount of ill-will that is often unnecessary, as it really does not save much.

    Often times it seems like a false economy of resources.

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  • tim.rohrer
    tim.rohrer Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    @jacobs and others. I will elaborate now that I'm spending time to validate the reports. Here is the first thing I note, that I welcome ideas with.

    Net worth is done as a snapshot in time, and it can be useful to compare net worth from one quarter/year to the next. So while my current net worth calculation is correct, none of my previous periods for comparison are (last month I supposedly was over $100K better off :-) ). Why? Because I had to "close" accounts that were previously hidden, and now they show up in the previous period net worth calculations even though I used to have them hidden. And their values (which were often not zero) are factored into reports even though that was not my intent.

    So I guess, unless someone has a better idea, I'll need to go through each comparison net worth report and unselect the hidden reports. But I guess I'll need to look at each line because I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to find. 

    Or, maybe to make sure the reports are correct, I should just go through and delete most of these accounts (I have a lot) -- I already deleted some -- that aren't critical for tracking.

    Or, maybe there is a way to change the "closed date"? <shrugs>

    I admit I can see the benefit of this once all the work is done, but it isn't really any improvement over what I was doing.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    @tim.rohrer  If you used an account 5 years ago and then abandoned it (hid it), and just now closed it, Quicken probably created a transaction to zero the account dated now. You should be able to change the date of that transaction back in time to the last time you used the account, and that will solve your past Net Worth reports being wrong.

    Or, as you say, delete the accounts if they don't represent real data and are just messing up your historical reporting. Just make sure you make a copy of your data file before you delete a bunch of accounts, in case you accidentally delete one you realize you still need.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • R Strax
    R Strax Member ✭✭✭
    I don't need to see these "hidden" and "separate" items, but the single lines aren't so bad to me. I do wish they were at the very bottom, out of the way, without "net worth" falling in between, annoying but I can live with it.

    My objection to this is the very confusing semantics. I don't have any "separate" accounts ie accounts not belonging to me. I do have hidden accounts that belong to me and are closed. I have had things organized this way for years, and it has always work out well. NOW Quicken has taken those previously "hidden" accounts and, for some unfathomable reason, put them all into the "separate" category - and under a header that says Hidden. What in the world does this mean??? (see photo - the Hidden is actually a subcategory of separate) Are they separate or hidden, and why did you move my hidden files to separate? So very confusing, and unnecessary.
  • Susie
    Susie Member ✭✭✭
    As a Quicken user since the beginning, it is all very well and good to have these lines for Hidden and Separate accounts, but mine show a balance of over $14 million! What do I do????
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    @Susie You need to click the disclosure triangle to show the list of Hidden accounts and Separate accounts, and see what account is showing such a value. Then open that account register to see what's going on. There's no way for any of us here to guess at what's in your data.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Susie
    Susie Member ✭✭✭
    It would be nice, it would be nice.... there is no account showing $14 million. I did close out all past accounts, but the "Hidden Accounts" still shows the large balance.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    @Susie  If you click the triangle to the left of Hidden Accounts, it will show your list of hidden accounts. (You may need to scroll the sidebar to see them.)

    If it is not showing the balance of each account on the right side of the sidebar -- we'd expect most of them should be $0.00 -- click the "..." icon in the blue heading of the accounts sidebar, and select Sidebar Balance Options, and then on the pop-up menu, Show Account Balances. Now you shold be seeing the balance for each account.

    Is there one account with a huge balance, or lots of accounts with non-zero balances? You're going to have to click on the account(s) to look to see why there's a large non-zero balance.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Bobalaska
    Bobalaska Member ✭✭
    A recent update provides for "the ability to set an account to hidden, separate, or closed."

    While I especially like the new close button in the Hide and Show Accounts window, having Separate and Hidden Accounts appear in the sidebar adds no value for me, and is somewhat distracting (.i.e. it clutters the sidebar).

    While having these in the sidebar might be useful for some users, I would suggest that a future revision add a preference so that someone like me can check a couple of boxes and not have Hidden and Separate Accounts appear in the sidebar. Thanks!
  • not_a_fan
    not_a_fan Member ✭✭
    Interesting - some folks are saying this feature isn't so bad or you could go through a bunch of work to satisfy your needs. NO! It is bad for those who don't want to see them or don't want to put in extra work to compensate for them. This is just silly! Think about the case where I changed banks. I want the old account still in quicken so I can still do historical analysis or find old transactions. But, as there is now a $0 balance, I don't need it cluttering up the sidebar. But, quicken has decided that it needs to be seen. Why? If I wanted to see it, I wouldn't have hidden it. But, now it has to appear in the hidden accounts or separate accounts.

    Yes, I can see a reason that either the hidden account or separate account choices can exist and why some folks would want to see them. I don't. But why FORCE me to have them? Hidden accounts existed for many years without forcing me to see them. Why did this suddenly change?
  • Bailey
    Bailey Member ✭✭
    edited July 2020
    After upgrading Quicken, I also found the new feature annoying. I was able to go back in the settings for several accounts and 'close' it so that it disappeared from the red total, but I also have transactions going back to 2004 that have been assigned to accounts I know longer have, such as my son's prepaid credit card. These are recent transactions that are duplicated in the correct accounts, for example, a Home Depot payment that I made this month but also shows up as on my son's prepaid card. I have no patience for going back into each transaction, comparing to the real transaction, and then deleting it. I guess I could ignore that red number at the bottom, but honestly, at this point, I can't connect easily to my bank account, I lost years of transactions in upgrading to the new subscription model this year (yes, I have a backup but now will have to search there in order to make any 2020 reports and add after upgrade transactions); if I could find ANY other program that would allow me to keep all my transactions and investments up-to-date, I'd quit Quicken forever. I spend more time trying to fix the upgrades, asking questions here and trying fixes-- (Removed-Language/No Soliciting) 
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    @Bailey The forum rules prohibit anyone discussing competitors to Quicken here. You'll have to look elsewhere for that information/advice. 
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • KenC
    KenC Member ✭✭
    edited August 2020
    > @shibushaji said:
    > I fully feel the pain of the OP and several posters here...

    Note that this discussion is a merge of several OPs. My question was unasnswered. I'm just lumped in here. And now all I see are people with the same (or similar) problem. We're just [removed - language] to each other. Commiserating.

    [removed - rant/disruptive/unhelpful]
  • Quicken_Tyka
    Quicken_Tyka Alumni ✭✭✭✭
    Hello all,

    I have an exciting update! The Ability to hide or toggle off the new feature in the sidebar, Separate Accounts has been implemented in the new 5.18 release.

    Thank you all for taking the time to vote and for your patience!

    -Quicken Tyka
    ~~~***~~~
This discussion has been closed.