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Account Bar credit card balance is $2.7 billion off from register

I have an intermittent and recurring issue with Credit Cards, normally Chase, but, also a deactivated (no online updates and no activity since 2007) ancient First Usa card. Every couple of days after an online update, one or both of these accounts, will show a balance of $2,7xx,xxx,xxx in the account bar.

The register shows the correct balance and does not seem to be affected by this obvious error.

I do not use savings goals, and do not have a $2.7 billion dream regardless.....

When I validate the file, I get no errors requiring attention and the problem will go away. Until the next time....
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Comments

  • FrankxFrankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    HI @Frustrated Long Term Customer,

    We get a lot of postings on a variety of different problems/topics here, and many are repeat issues or variations on a theme.  But I can tell you that I have not seen or heard of the issues that you are facing!

    Can you give us info on your versions and builds of both Quicken and Windows? Can you also tell us how long this has been happening?  Also just some clarity on how and when the problem starts and the goes away:

    a) can you confirm that it only appears after you do an "online update"?
    b) are you updating using One Step Update or are you updating individual accounts?
    c) Also Frustrated Long Term Customer said:
    When I validate the file, I get no errors requiring attention and the problem will go away.
    Is that the only time it goes away - i.e. after validating the file, or does it also go away if you take other action, such as shutting down?

    Thanks in advance for the additional information.

    Frankx


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  • Windows 10 Pro
    Ver 1903
    Build 18362.900

    Quicken
    2020
    V 27.28
    27.1.27.28

    Most of the time once fixed it reappears after the one step update. Sometimes it does just happen when launching quicken.

    Once it appears, 95% of the time it only gets fixed when I validate, although, I believe it has corrected itself after a one step update, but, I can't absolutely guarantee.

    The problem has been happening for about 2 months.

    Thanks
  • FrankxFrankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi [email protected] Long Term Customer,

    A follow-up question and comment:

    Are you using syncing to the mobile app?  if so, (especially if you started syncing around the same time this problem occurred) I suggest that you disable that and see if you still have the problem.

    Also, there have been reports in the past of wildly incorrect balances being reported in the Account Bar that have been linked to the use of "savings goals", however since the accounts you are having issues with are credit card accounts, I don't think that would be the cause.

    Otherwise I would suggest that you contact Quicken Support using this LINK.

    Also let us know how this works out.

    Frankx


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  • Not using mobile services at all. No Savings Goals.

    I hesitate to call Quicken Support as past experience has taught me they will only tell me that: my file is corrupt, I have too big of a file, "Quicken only supports three years of data", and to blow away my file and re-enter all my data.

    My previous new posting here was about a problem caused by dormant/ancient accounts that still had an online update linkage. Quicken's proposed solution was the above. I finally figured out the online dead linkage on my own.

    Thinking about the previous issue, it is interesting that once again, a dormant account that has an active (but non-working) online linkage is involved in the problem.

    I just wanted to put this out there for others so they don't feel all alone.
  • Update 7-21-20

    Today, restarting Quicken the error returned, with a different amount, now I am only $944,892,XXX off from my register (as a curious note, this is divisible by 9).

    Yesterday I had run file validate and the problem was fixed and I did not exit Quicken.

    Today, I ran one step update and received normal responses with expected balances.

    I then exited Quicken and restarted. The $2.7 billion account balance was back. When I reran one step update, my balance was updated to the $944 million above.

    When I ran file validate the problem DID NOT correct and I still show a $944 million dollar difference between the account bar and my register.

    The old First USA card is no longer reporting weird balances, it is only in the active Chase Card that the error is happening.
  • FrankxFrankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi again FLTC,

    A couple of questions and observations...

    You said - "it is interesting that once again, a dormant account that has an active (but non-working) online linkage is involved in the problem" - and I agree.  Can you tell me more about this - are you saying that these accounts are setup for "Online Services" but that you just do not try to "connect" them anymore?  If so, what type of connections are they setup for, and when you do connect are you using the password vault, or have you used the password vault in the past?  That could possibly be the cause - so I suggest that you deactivate online services for any account that you no longer download.

    And exactly what does "an active (but non-working) online linkage" mean?

    What type of online services connection are you using for Chase?  Also have you other accounts at Chase other than the credit card, such as bank accounts, brokerage account, mortgage, etc. and the answer is "yes", do you now (or did you in the past) download for those accounts?  Do any of those accounts have "an active (but non-working) online linkage"?

    Since you are apparently familiar with the file validation process, have you also tried "super validation"?  That might be you should try.   Of course before you do, make sure that you backup your file first.

    Frankx


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  • I am not aware of super validation, or if I was, I have forgotten how to do it.

    All of my accounts are updated via one step and through Direct Connect using password vault. I have multiple credit cards with Chase and all others are behaving.

    Since I use the above method, and select "update all" in the menu (an option that used to be the default and was changed to require the user to select "Update All" every time recently by Quicken), any account that has been set up and still has a defined connection attempts to update. My First USA card was transferred to Synchrony Bank and hasn't had a transaction in years and has apparently been closed by the Lender with a zero balance, although the account still pulls up on the website. I have never received an error message displayed during the update. Which is curious in and of itself. Thus my comment about supposedly active, but non-working, linkage.

    When I first started trouble shooting this issue I deleted the Synchrony connection. Even so, the account still reflected the $2.7 billion dollar discrepancy between account register and account bar. After multiple file validations it resolved itself and is no longer is in conflict. Leaving only the Chase account that was $2.7 billion until today.

    There are no inactive accounts with Chase.
  • FrankxFrankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi FLTC,

    So, I assume that you believe that having "supposedly active, but non-working, linkage" in your Quicken data file should not cause the problem you are experiencing, and you may be right.  However I would strongly suggest that you remove all connection information for any accounts that are inactive (for each account - go to "Account Details" > open "Online Services" tab > for both Online setup" and Online bill payment" > click "OK" > then follow on-screen instructions, if any).  Once you do this for all the applicable accounts, close out Quicken and restart.

    Also, for the "active" Chase account that seems to be giving you problems if you haven't tried this yet, I suggest that you deactivate and reactivate that one account to see if that fixes your issue

    On the super validate issue, the next time you validate the file and have "fixed" any errors from that process, follow these instructions to super validate the file  (After you have backed-up the file):

    - Click File / File Operations. Press and hold SHIFT+CTRL as you click Validate and Repair. The next popup should show "Supervalidate" somewhere in header or text. Click "Supervalidate File", check to make sure the copied file is being validated, click OK. Let it run. It might run for a while. 
    - Again fix any errors logged as not repaired by Quicken.

    The above steps are taken from this guidance:
    https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7851545/faq-troubleshooting-101-installation-and-data-file-problems-quicken-for-windows

    Let me know how this goes.

    Frankx


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  • So I can now duplicate the error, which is back to $2.7 billion, at will.

    When I launch Quicken, the Chase account will have an Account Bar balance of $2.7 billion, when I run validate, the Account Bar and Register balance will equalize. When I close Quicken and reopen, the $2.7 billion Account Bar balance will reappear.

    Here is the response from Validate:

    QDF:
    Damaged data record.
    Damaged data record.
    Damaged data record.
    Validating your data.
    Quicken repaired Chase Ultimate Preferred account. No action required.


    QEL:
    No read errors.

    QEL:
    All internal consistency checks passed.
  • FrankxFrankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi @Frustrated Long Term Customer LTC,

    That's good information.  Clearly, there's some type of data corruption and while the validation process fixes it, the fix is only temporary.  Did you try the "Super Validate" steps that we had discussed?  Also did you try the "deactivate and reactivate" process for the Chase account?  If not, those would be my suggested next steps. 

    A new question is - do you have Quicken setup so that it performs one step updates each time you open the program?

    Frankx


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  • Frankx,

    One Step is manually launched.

    I had reviewed all the online connections prior to original posting so there was no ongoing connection issue. I do suspect that questionable online connections (meaning they don't error, but, the underlying account is dormant) can cause corruption issues.

    I am now on day 2 after the Super Validation and there is still no discrepancy between the Account Bar and Register. It is interesting to note that Validation consistently reported that the Chase account had been repaired during validation, while the Super Validation did not report such a repair, yet only the Super Validation seems to have resolved the issue.

    Thank you for your suggestions,

    Craig
  • FrankxFrankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi Craig,

    I am glad that the super validation has apparently fix the data corruption.  Any, yes - unlike validation it doesn't report repairs (not sure why it doesn't).

    Well at least you don't owe the $2.7 billion anymore!!

    Have a great weekend.

    Frankx


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  • It's back!!!!!!

    This AM when I launched Quicken the two credit card accounts both had account bar balances of $2.7 billion. After running one step update, the account with active connection (Chase) changed to $944 million and the unlinked dormant account stayed at $2.7 billion.

    Validate did nothing to change the account bar balances. Launching and relaunching quicken got me to a new Quicken account validation screen that did not remember any of my user info (irritating as I had to go find the info). Interestingly, both accounts now returned to showing $2.7 billion balances.

    Running super validate did correct the problem again and returned the following log:

    QDF:
    Damaged data record.
    Damaged data record.
    Damaged data record.
    Validating your data.
    Repaired your data file by removing a damaged category. Please check your category list for missing categories by going to Tools>Category List.
    Quicken repaired BP - Joint Card account. No action required.
    Quicken repaired Chase Ultimate Preferred account. No action required.



    Seriously, am I going to have to super validate my file every week?

    Does not appear to be an online update issue as one account has no connection. Although I did note that some code change was required by Quicken with the Chase connection due to connection issues. How that would corrupt the other account is unknown.
  • Today following one step update, the Chase card account bar balance was $944 million. Following supervalidate the balance reset to the correct balance. The log states the Chase card was repaired.
  • FrankxFrankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi @Frustrated Long Term Customer,

    I feel your pain and agree that this is not an acceptable situation.  I really think that you should contact Quicken Support and hopefully they can come up with a solution that sticks.. Here's a LINK.  Make sure that you tell them that you've posted here.

    Please get back to me and let me know how that goes.

    Frankx


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  • Today, following the one step update the Chase card was $944 million in the account bar. Following supervalidate, the Chase card balance was correct; however, the other card (First USA/BP) card, which is dormant and non-linked, now has an account bar balance of $944 million.

    I will contact Quicken support, but, I am afraid that the answer will be "your file is corrupt" and blow it away. This is their stock answer and I have never gotten escalated past that stock answer.

    I will post if there is actually usable info obtained from Technical Support.
  • FrankxFrankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi Craig,

    Given the fact that the error keeps increasing, I agree that the answer is likely data corruption.  Make sure you request that your issue be escalated to a higher level if you feel you are getting the "stock answer".  Hopefully, you'll at least be able to limit the damage to your file and the steps need to recreate it.

    Good luck!

    Frankx


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  • Quicken technical support has significantly improved.

    This time instead of just telling me to blow away my file they walked me through moving the transactions from the two credit card accounts into new copy accounts.

    I have closed quicken and run one step update and the account bar has correctly reported the register balances for both cards.

    Let's hope the data corruption does not reappear.
  • FrankxFrankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll keep my fingers crossed!!

    Frankx


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  • Ok, long story short, I was mistaken about Quicken Technical Support having improved. They still blame the customer's data file as a default answer instead of at least attempting to learn from the problem. If they are going to blame the file, they need to provide better tools that can be used to locate and repair damaged records or at least provide a log of the actual damages and methods to repair the file. All they had to do was ask for a copy of the file.....

    The longer version:
    After being walked through how to move transactions for the two credit card accounts to a new account for each, the representative was cut off from my first call and never called back (Karen).

    After finishing the moves, all looked good in the two card registers and account bar balances. Then I noticed that my checking account had different register and account bar balance (same as the original problem with credit cards). Then I noticed that when I ran certain reports (Net Worth) no checking account transactions after 4/30/2015 would appear, i.e. the checking account balance would stay the same after April, 2015 despite there being thousands of transactions.

    I called Quicken back and received the stock answer: "your file is corrupt, that's what Karen told you when you last called" and there wasn't anything to do but to go back to some back up and hope the problem didn't exist and recreate from there. Without getting real ugly here, Karen never did say my file was corrupt as I was very sensitive to this answer and would have reacted, so the fact that her notes reflect this was her thinking is very indicative of Quicken's attitude towards us inconvenient users.

    I asked to be escalated to second tier and after some argument I was given to Gio, a supervisor. We tried multiple steps and then he stated that my file seemed ok, but, maybe just the checking account itself was corrupt (he was actually very surprised at how fast validation occurred on my file). His recommendation: do the same to the checking account as we had to the credit cards - move all the transactions to a new account. He then signed off for me to go to work.

    During this process we identified a obviously bad record that could not be deleted or zeroed out. It had a bizarre date when first loaded, then would change to the current date, but, would sort as if it was in April, 2015 (i.e. around the date the net worth report stopped reporting transactions). The balance for this transaction was $8 million although it did not affect the register balance. We also had a similar transaction in the Chase Credit card account before we moved those transactions to the new account. In both cases, our solution meant we did not move this transaction and got rid of it when the account was deleted.

    When moving the transactions for the credit cards, I could select all the transactions and do a bulk move. One account had over 2,000 records and the other over 4,000. When doing the checking account, it would allow you to select all the records; however, it wouldn't move the records, instead the interface would just come back and act like it had. I eventually learned that any more than a screen full of transactions (i.e. under 20 and sometime under 4) was the most that could be moved at a time. Since my checking account goes back to 2000, I am sure you can imagine how painful this was (in case you are wondering if this is true, I did call Quicken and was told that I should not try to move more than a month's worth of transactions at a time).

    I finally completed this step and have gotten my checking account and credit card balances within believable values. Unfortunately, several of my investment accounts that had, or received, transactions from my checking account now have bizarre balances. The good news is that my reports work with both files.

    So after two days of effort, I now have the choice of dealing with the original file that has a $2.7 billion dollar credit card balance in the Account Bar only, or use a file that has completely invalid investment balances/transactions.

    Thanks Quicken, you have surpassed my already low expectations. Instead of learning from this experience, you have abdicated your responsibility to us users, and just thrown us to our own devices.
  • FrankxFrankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Craig,

    I am sorry that things have not gone well for you throughout this ordeal.  I really can't imagine how frustrated you must be, but I do really appreciate your sharing this experience with the members of this "community".  And I am sorry that I couldn't be more helpful to you.

    Take care.

    Frankx


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  • Rocket J SquirrelRocket J Squirrel SuperUser, Windows Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5
    Sad to say, but "damaged data record" means "permanently and irreparably damaged." There is no fix. Your only recourse is to create a new data file. Don't shoot the messenger.
    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win10 Pro.
  • So today, the original file (current) started up showing in the Account Bar the $944 million balance in the Chase card and $2.7 billion in the BP card. So, following Quicken's, and other's, advice I decided to try and restore a back up prior to the balances being off.

    Lo and behold, every back up I restored (went back monthly to March, long before the problem manifested itself) would load with $2.7 Billion balances in the Account Bar, think for awhile, then come back with accurate Account Bar data. Once I did the one step update, sometimes the download would revert the Account Bar balance to an accurate reflection and sometimes it would show either $944 million or the $2.7 billion in one or both accounts (there was no discernible pattern to this behavior, the back up file from June 3 had a correct Account bar after download, while the March back up did not).

    For the times the back up file did reflect accurate Account Bar balances after update, I would then change the file to my current copy in order print out the transactions so I could manually rebuild the back up (would have to change the report because of the date of the back up). When I would return to the back up file, the Chase credit card balance would be $944 million or the $2.7 billion. This happened three times.

    While I appreciate that an answer may be there is data corruption, there are several factors that warrant consideration. First, why does Quicken's validation and super validation not find, flag, or report data issues? A product as established as this should be able to determine if there is inconsistency in the data. Clearly, for Quicken to have credibility in the default answer: "your file is corrupt" it would be in their interest for their tools to validate this fact. Second, since the problem first manifested itself around a month ago, why do data files from March now have the same error today? Finally, after going through these steps for multiple back up files, when I just reloaded the current file, neither the $944 million or $2.7 Billion Account Bar balances were present.

    Coincidently, Quicken and Chase recently had some sort of communication fault that required a patch.

    Clearly there is something amiss.
  • Rocket J SquirrelRocket J Squirrel SuperUser, Windows Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is hope that Quicken might improve the validate & repair process, but no one knows when. See this idea thread:

    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win10 Pro.
  • And therein lies the rub, why is Quicken still not addressing data corruption when there is a thread from at least 2017 asking/demanding such support?

    If any Quicken representatives are paying attention to this matter then they need to provide a pathway to resolution for this problem and the numerous other issues involved with data integrity/online account updates.

    It is not acceptable customer service to blame the user and then claim it is not Quicken's responsibility to at least be able to definitively show there is irreparable data issues.

    In my prior posting "I lost the ability to update a bank of america account out of four quicken staff say file corrupt" (sorry for some reason when I insert the link the comment refuses to post)

    you will find a perfect example of Quicken falsely (ignorantly) making the claim that the file was corrupt and my subsequent discovery that the issue was not data corruption but a severed online connection to Bank of America.

    Until Quicken can provide the tools that prove the file irreparable, all users should be extremely suspicious of their advice to blow away your file.
  • Quicken SarahQuicken Sarah Administrator, Moderator mod
    Hello @Frustrated Long Term Customer

    Thank you for taking the time to share the details of this issue and experience with Quicken Support although I apologize for the frustration experienced and that this matter has not been resolved.

    Unfortunately, I do not have any additional troubleshooting steps to recommend as between the assistance of the community and support we seem to have exhausted our reserve of available troubleshooting steps and resources.

    I would however, like to send a copy of your data file to our Development Team for research purposes in developing a tool/function to better diagnose and resolve data file integrity issues; as mentioned above by @Rocket J Squirrel and the ongoing Idea thread for this request - https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7850837/need-a-tool-to-really-truly-repair-data-corruption-13-merged-votes/p1.

    If you are willing to assist, please be aware that in providing a data file copy to Development, the file will be used for research purposes only and they will be unable to provide a resolution for the balance issues you are experiencing, however it will help us to better understand the file issues Users experience and how best to develop an improved tool for data file integrity issues in the future.

    If you would like to submit your data file for research purposes, please reply here and let me know and I will reach out to you to provide details on how to securely provide the file to us. 

    Thank you,

    Sarah
  • Sarah,

    Thank you for posting an official reaction. I too am sorry that Quicken has been unable to provide resolution to this, and hundreds if not thousands, of others with inconsistent program behavior.

    You will note that one of my chief early complaints in this thread was that Quicken was not asking for a copy of the data file. If Quicken was/is serious about resolving data integrity issues this should have been the practice years ago.

    I am willing to share my file, however, as it is sensitive data I will insist that it is to a named individual who will be responsible for its contents while in your possession. Please let me know who to contact to arrange for its transmission and safekeeping.

    While I understand that the point of Quicken obtaining my file is not to solve/identify my issue, I am sure your disclaimer was intended to just set my expectation that a direct resolution about my balance issues should not be expected; however, it would be my expectation that at least some dialog/comments would be involved.

    As a side note, today the balances are not $2.7 Billion or $944 Million in the Account Bar for the second day.
  • I would also appreciate Quicken removing the two "Accepted Answers" tagged to, while obviously well intentioned, incomplete and nonfunctional recommendations.

    This problem should remain unanswered until a solution or a irreparable data corruption issue is identified.

    To do otherwise is to pretend that problems that Quicken doesn't have answers to are not real or don't matter.
  • Day 4 of no $2.7 Billion or $944 Million balances in Account Bar. Despite a through review, I cannot locate the weird transactions in the Current file that were found in the temporary file copy created in order to facilitate the bulk transaction moves suggested by Quicken Support.

    Still no response from Quicken concerning sharing my file with them, although to their credit they have removed the "Accepted Answer" tag to two of the comments that had been posted.
  • Quicken SarahQuicken Sarah Administrator, Moderator mod

    I am willing to share my file, however, as it is sensitive data I will insist that it is to a named individual who will be responsible for its contents while in your possession. Please let me know who to contact to arrange for its transmission and safekeeping.

    Hello @Frustrated Long Term Customer

    Thank you for your willingness to provide a copy of your data file where this issue can be viewed.

    The data file would be submitted directly to me via our secure file transfer system and then uploaded directly from that system to the open ticket in our Development Tool for building an improved data file integrity tool. 

    The Development Team who is assigned to that ticket would have access to the data file and information included.

    If you would prefer, a sanitized copy of the data file may be submitted directly to the team via the Help menu > Report a Problem tool.  Sanitizing the file removes all personally identifiable information, including financial institution credentials and obfuscates the transaction data to ensure your privacy remains intact.

    Again, I appreciate your willingness to work with us and if you would prefer to send the sanitized copy, please just let me know once the report has been submitted.

    Thank you,

    Sarah
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