Financial Transactions in Dollars Not Shares

This is related to the download sync functionality from Institution Investments. The Cash Balance amount is calculated correctly. The issues are below:

For account 1, the Cash Balance of X dollars needs to replace the account xx1234 with the same correct dollar value of X dollars for Cash Balance, not Shares. The erroneous value on the left for Accounts 1 is in error.

I bought Quicken because I need accurate dollar amount information. I am looking forward to getting this resolved.

For account 2, the Cash Balance of A dollars needs to replace the account xx12345 with the same correct dollar value of A dollars for Cash Balance and not Shares. The erroneous value on the left for accounts 2 is in error.

Additionally, each of the Brokerage AccountInvestment accounts on the left, under account is displaying the incorrect dollar amounts. These errors are causing the Net Worth total figure to be in error, in the lower left of the screen column because of the Shares.

This is a basic calculation of adding correct values to sum the correct total. As it is now, Quicken displays a very large number for shares and is using that to compute the Net worth in dollars. This would make your product better. If fact a few years ago it used to work correctly.
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  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 25
    This is the third time you have posted about this issue using almost exactly the same words. I think no one has responded because it is very difficult to understand what your issue is.

    Since you are so persistent, I will try to decipher your issue.

    First, what Quicken product are you running? I see one of your earlier posts was in the Mac section of the forum.

    It sounds like you are trying to move X dollars from investing Account 1 to Account xx1234. Is that right? Did you click on Enter Transactions in Account 1 and enter a Cash Transferred out of account (XOut) transaction, or did you do something else? What happened?

    Then you are also trying to move A dollars from Account 2 to Account xx12345. What transaction did you enter for that transfer, and what happened when you tried to do that? 

    Please describe step by step what what you did and what happened.
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  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    Windows 10. When I synch to download transaction, the quicken program displays shares instead of dollar amounts for the accounts.
  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    I accepted the wizard transactions and went through the process. Quicken displays share instead of dollars.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK, so you are not trying to move money between accounts, you just want to download transactions and view the account's holdings in Quicken. Do I have that right?

    Please confirm that this is an investing or brokerage account, not a bank account.

    Brokerage accounts in Quicken can hold securities like stocks and mutual funds. These securities have shares and the value of each holding is the number of shares you own times the price per share.

    These accounts can also hold cash, which is money that is not invested in any securities. Sometimes the brokerage will automatically move this cash into a money market "sweep fund" or "settlement fund". Shares of the money market fund are always priced at $1.00, so the number of shares equals the amount of money in the fund. 

    Sometimes this uninvested money will show as cash on the broker's website but as shares of the money market fund in Quicken. Is this what you are seeing, or do you have a different issue?

    Also Quicken has two ways you can view and use investing accounts - Simple and Complete. In Simple mode, there is a dashboard with a summary of the securities you own. In Complete mode, there is a list of all the transactions, similar to a bank account's register. Which mode are you using?
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  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    User481 said:
    Quicken displays share instead of dollars.
    I am honestly failing to understand this tread, so I'll just throw one thing out there that I haven't seen mentioned.
    When Quicken (properly) displays a share balance instead of a dollar balance, it is because the account is a Single Mutual Fund account. Such an account cannot contain cash. Any chance that's the issue?

    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win10 Pro.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27
    I think I am beginning to understand the question/issue.

    Account 1 is a brokerage account as viewed on the FI website. Account xx1234 is an account in Quicken that is connected to Account 1. 

    Account 1 shows a cash balance of $X, but in the Quicken account xx1234, this shows as X shares of a money market fund. This is a common situation with sweep accounts, as I discuss above.

    He is having the same problem with Account 2, which corresponds to Account xx12345 in Quicken.

    I still don't understand "the erroneous value on the left." This may have something to do with the balance in the Account bar not matching the account's balance. I can't tell if this discrepancy is with the account as viewed online or the account in Quicken.

    Can you confirm and clarify this, @user 481?


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  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    Correct. It’s Fidelity Investments. I have a broker who is investing in the funds. About 20 or so funds, including money market. The issue is the account dollars value is not being added to the Account sum on the left for other accounts to add up the Net Worth.

    How and where Can I check to see the mode being used in Quicken? I was using the Quicken subscription.
  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    I am using Tracking Method- Complete-Positions and Transactions. Thanks
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK, thanks for clarifying.

    If you look at the main page for the account you are calling xx1234 in Quicken, below where the transactions are listed, you should see Securities Value, Cash Balance, and Total Market Value.

    If all you see is Securities Value, the account is probably set to "Show cash in a checking account" and there will be an account with the banking accounts in the Accounts Bar at the left called xx1234-Cash. Is that what you see?

    If so, the cash in the account is being shown in the separate checking account and the Securities Value should be shown next to the account in he Investing section of the Accounts Bar.

    If you see all 3 amounts, then Securities Value + Cash Balance should equal Total Market Value and the Total Market Value should be the same as the amount for the investing account in the Accounts Bar.

    Which of these do you see, or is it something different? Please use the same names for these these items that Quicken uses. 
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  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    Correct. The Cash Balance is $525,722.89. This is the correct number. The Securities Value is $33,895,087.31. The Total Market Value is $34,420,810.20. In the Account column for the BrokerageAccount xx1234 is has 34,420,810. It should be $525,722.89.

    No to your question.

    I think I see you last option. See the first paragraph above.
    Thank you
  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    Another Fidelity account shows the Cash Balance is 72,073.52. This is the correct number. The Securities Value is $66,792.09. The Total Market Value is $138,865. In the Account column for the BrokerageAccount xx is has $138,866. It should be $72,073.52. This just happens to be a Roth with a combination of securities a broker is managing.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are there no securities in the account at Fidelity so the Cash Balance the total amount that is in the account? Earlier you said there are 20 or so funds in the account. Do they add up to the 34 million, or some other amount?

    Unless there is a separate account in Quicken for the cash, the amount in the Investing section of the Account Bar should be the total amount that is in the account, what Quicken calls the Total Market Value.
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  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    I have a portfolio of funds and stocks in this account and about 40% is in a money market. They sould be the $525, 722.89 but Quicken does not display that.
  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    I have a portfolio of funds and stocks in this account and about 40% is in a money market. They should be the $525, 722.89, but Quicken does not display that.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let's talk about one account at a time. Remember that what Quicken calls the Cash Balance is not the total value of the account, it is the money that is not invested in any securities. Quicken's name for the total value of the account including the Cash Balance the Total Market Value.

    The amount displayed on the left in the Investing section of the Account bar is the Total Market Value.

    Please restate your most recent message using that terminology.
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  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    I understand what you are saying and the explanation and I don’t agree with it (the logic). This is what I am proposing to be changed.

    What I would like is the ‘Cash Balance’ to be used at the left under ‘Accounts’ to compute the ‘Ending Balance’. This is the change that I am asking for and the reason of posting in this Quicken Community. Thanks
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I now understand that you would like the amounts shown in the Account Bar for each account to only include the cash that is held in the accounts and not the value of the securities that are held in those accounts. It sounds like you also think that the Net Worth shown at the bottom of the Account bar should also only include cash in your accounts, and not the value of your securities or other assets and liabilities. 

    I doubt that Quicken will make that change, but you can customize and save a Net Worth report that only includes cash. 
    • Go to Reports > Net Worth and Balances > Net Worth to open the default Net Worth report.
    • Click on the gear at the top right to customize the report
    • On the Accounts tab, select your banking and investing accounts
    • On the Securities tab, select "No security (includes cash)". If you want to include money market funds as cash, select them too.
    • Click on OK to save the customizations.
    • Click on the floppy disc icon to save the report.

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  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    From my perspective, the label ‘Cash Balance’ is the value of what the account is worth. It does include the value of the securities. The Quicken term ‘Cash Balance’ is inappropriate, because it includes a number of funds and money market where the dollar amount and value is represented or so called ‘Cash Balance’. Yes, the ‘Net Worth’ should include what the account value is.

    So, I am also proposing relabeling the ‘Cash Balance’ to something more appropriate, such as ‘Dollar Value’.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 28
    User481 said:
    From my perspective, the label ‘Cash Balance’ is the value of what the account is worth. It does include the value of the securities. The Quicken term ‘Cash Balance’ is inappropriate, because it includes a number of funds and money market where the dollar amount and value is represented or so called ‘Cash Balance’. Yes, the ‘Net Worth’ should include what the account value is.

    So, I am also proposing relabeling the ‘Cash Balance’ to something more appropriate, such as ‘Dollar Value’.
    I think you are confusing the Quicken terms "Cash Balance" and "Total Market Value".

    In Quicken, the total value of what an investing account is worth, including the securities, is called "Total Market Value." This is what is shown for the account in the Account Bar. It is also shown at the bottom of the transaction list on the account page.

    "Cash Balance" in Quicken is money in an investing account that is held in cash and not invested in any security.
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  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    I understand. This is what I am proposing to also be changed. See above. Thanks
  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I doubt Quicken will change long-standing terminology because one (1) user doesn't like it. The rest of us are fine with it.
    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win10 Pro.
  • User481
    User481 Member ✭✭
    This flaw in the product causes it to not compute the Net Worth as stated above.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think if you accept Quicken's definition of Total Market Value, you will find that your Net Worth is the sum of the Total Market Values of your investing accounts plus the balances of your other accounts. These are the numbers that are displayed in the Account bar.
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  • Boatnmaniac
    Boatnmaniac SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    As I'm reading through this thread it appears this might be about the age-old issue regarding how Fidelity downloads data for the Core Account, whether that Core Account is a FDIC insured sweep account or a Money Market Fund. In both cases, Fidelity downloads the balance of the Core Account as the Cash Balance and it should not be downloaded as a bank sweep account holding or MMF shares holding and it should only be reflected in Quicken as Cash.   You can read more about this at https://www.fidelity.com/customer-service/faqs-exporting-account-information.
    However, sometimes Fidelity will also download the MMF shares in addition to the the Cash Value of those shares.  This most often happens when there are actual buy/sell transactions of that MMF and when shares are sold to fund a stock purchase or to fund a cash distribution as well as when the Core Account MMF is set up to Reinvest Dividends instead of depositing the Dividends to the accounts Cash Balance.  These things will cause the Holdings of the MMF and the account Cash Balance in Quicken to get out of sync with what is shown in the online Fidelity account and this can be by a very considerable amount.
    Fidelity has gotten better about this over the last couple of years but it sometimes still happens.  And if the necessary adjustments to those transactions are not completed it will really mess up the total account Market Value and the Net Worth report.
    If this is what this thread is about, then it is not a Quicken issue and it is nothing that Quicken can change.  It is a Fidelity issue because it is cause by what Fidelity downloads.  And it is nothing new.  If you do a Google search you will find that this issue existed at least as far back as 2008.  (It is also not an issue unique to Fidelity although it seems to be more pronounced in this Forum with Fidelity than with other brokerages.)
    To fix the issue, one needs to ensure their account in Quicken is holding no shares of the Core Account MMF and to perhaps make a setting change in the Fidelity.com as to how the Core Account MMF dividends are managed.  There are many threads about this issue in Quicken.  One I like to refer back to is Downloads from Fidelity do not included activity into the settlement fund because it not only describes the issue but also provides a good workaround fix.
    Let me know if this captures the the issue correctly or if I am misunderstanding it.
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