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After a recent One Step Update a very old fund (closed) now shows a security value and its throwing

Scott
Scott Member ✭✭
edited November 2018 in Investing (Windows)
After a recent One Step Update a very old fund now shows a security value and its throwing off my Net Worth. I made no changes to this old fund.

Support is of no help. These seem to happen once or twice a year even with updated software. I don't remember how to resolve the issue. It shows up in the left column in the Account Bar under the heading "Separate". This is account is supposed to be completely  hidden.  It's an old fun that's suddenly showing a negative security value. Even though no new transactions show.

Comments

  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance? 
    QWin Premier subscription
  • Scott
    Scott Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.
    Quicken H&B 2017 v R15  Build 26.1.15.5 (sorry about that).

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?
    Just downloaded data and quotes.

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance?
    It's actually a fund within an old hidden account that's no longer active. Shows -$488.29. It's listed in the Accounts column under "Seperate/More Accounts". When I click on More Accounts I can see the fund with the negative balance.  When I click on the old fund a registry opens but it appears normal. However in the Securities Value it shows -$488.38 (yes .38 not .29, odd) and the Cash Balance shows $0.00 with a Total Market Value of -$488.38.

    This seems to happen a couple of times a year and I don't know why. Have contacted Quicken in the past but don't remember what they had me do to correct it. Seems like hiding the value but not deleting the account... I'm pretty sure.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited December 2017
    Scott said:

    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.
    Quicken H&B 2017 v R15  Build 26.1.15.5 (sorry about that).

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?
    Just downloaded data and quotes.

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance?
    It's actually a fund within an old hidden account that's no longer active. Shows -$488.29. It's listed in the Accounts column under "Seperate/More Accounts". When I click on More Accounts I can see the fund with the negative balance.  When I click on the old fund a registry opens but it appears normal. However in the Securities Value it shows -$488.38 (yes .38 not .29, odd) and the Cash Balance shows $0.00 with a Total Market Value of -$488.38.

    This seems to happen a couple of times a year and I don't know why. Have contacted Quicken in the past but don't remember what they had me do to correct it. Seems like hiding the value but not deleting the account... I'm pretty sure.

    First off, find out why you have a value left for a security you have no shares in.

    Correct that first so that the value is zero and the shares are zero...either by correcting a register entry or entering a Add Shares to balance to zero shares or a cash balancing adjustment.

    Then, when you have everything back to zero, go to TOOLS > Security List and find the security that get's periodically downloaded.  Uncheck the Download Quotes field and check the Hidden field. 
  • Scott
    Scott Member ✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Scott said:

    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.
    Quicken H&B 2017 v R15  Build 26.1.15.5 (sorry about that).

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?
    Just downloaded data and quotes.

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance?
    It's actually a fund within an old hidden account that's no longer active. Shows -$488.29. It's listed in the Accounts column under "Seperate/More Accounts". When I click on More Accounts I can see the fund with the negative balance.  When I click on the old fund a registry opens but it appears normal. However in the Securities Value it shows -$488.38 (yes .38 not .29, odd) and the Cash Balance shows $0.00 with a Total Market Value of -$488.38.

    This seems to happen a couple of times a year and I don't know why. Have contacted Quicken in the past but don't remember what they had me do to correct it. Seems like hiding the value but not deleting the account... I'm pretty sure.

    The registry entry doesn't reflect anything like this. Plus the entries are quite old and nothing new is reflected.  I'm having trouble figuring out where this did come from and exactly how to correct it (back to zero if you will).
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Scott said:

    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.
    Quicken H&B 2017 v R15  Build 26.1.15.5 (sorry about that).

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?
    Just downloaded data and quotes.

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance?
    It's actually a fund within an old hidden account that's no longer active. Shows -$488.29. It's listed in the Accounts column under "Seperate/More Accounts". When I click on More Accounts I can see the fund with the negative balance.  When I click on the old fund a registry opens but it appears normal. However in the Securities Value it shows -$488.38 (yes .38 not .29, odd) and the Cash Balance shows $0.00 with a Total Market Value of -$488.38.

    This seems to happen a couple of times a year and I don't know why. Have contacted Quicken in the past but don't remember what they had me do to correct it. Seems like hiding the value but not deleting the account... I'm pretty sure.

    where this did come from
    My opinion - possibly an old corrupted transaction that was "re-interpretted" after your program upgrade.  
    how to correct it
    Need to identify the flaw.
    When I click on the old fund a registry opens but it appears normal. However in the Securities Value it shows -$488.38... 
    From there (properly called a transaction list), you can click on Holdings near the top.  That view (Show: Values) should detail your actual share count for each security, and the cash held.  I would further go to the gear icon (upper right) and choose to Show Closed lots. 

    You should now be able to see if any security is showing 'negative' shares, or which security is getting the -488.38 or -488.29 value. 

    If it is a share count issue, I'd first look to see why that count was off.  You might need to delete and re-enter the final transaction for that security in that account.  Lacking anything actionable, I'd use an Add Shares or Remove Shares transactions to bring the count to zero. 

    If by chance the value relates to a security with that cost basis and no shares, a RtrnCap transaction might clear it up.  
  • Scott
    Scott Member ✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Scott said:

    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.
    Quicken H&B 2017 v R15  Build 26.1.15.5 (sorry about that).

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?
    Just downloaded data and quotes.

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance?
    It's actually a fund within an old hidden account that's no longer active. Shows -$488.29. It's listed in the Accounts column under "Seperate/More Accounts". When I click on More Accounts I can see the fund with the negative balance.  When I click on the old fund a registry opens but it appears normal. However in the Securities Value it shows -$488.38 (yes .38 not .29, odd) and the Cash Balance shows $0.00 with a Total Market Value of -$488.38.

    This seems to happen a couple of times a year and I don't know why. Have contacted Quicken in the past but don't remember what they had me do to correct it. Seems like hiding the value but not deleting the account... I'm pretty sure.

    You say: From there (properly called a transaction list), you can click on
    Holdings near the top.  That view (Show: Values) should detail your
    actual share count for each security, and the cash held.  I would
    further go to the gear icon (upper right) and choose to Show Closed
    lots. 

    After clicking on Holdings I do not see Show:Values. When clicking on the gear icon (upper right) I do not have an option called Show Closed Lots.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Scott said:

    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.
    Quicken H&B 2017 v R15  Build 26.1.15.5 (sorry about that).

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?
    Just downloaded data and quotes.

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance?
    It's actually a fund within an old hidden account that's no longer active. Shows -$488.29. It's listed in the Accounts column under "Seperate/More Accounts". When I click on More Accounts I can see the fund with the negative balance.  When I click on the old fund a registry opens but it appears normal. However in the Securities Value it shows -$488.38 (yes .38 not .29, odd) and the Cash Balance shows $0.00 with a Total Market Value of -$488.38.

    This seems to happen a couple of times a year and I don't know why. Have contacted Quicken in the past but don't remember what they had me do to correct it. Seems like hiding the value but not deleting the account... I'm pretty sure.

    @Scott:  See pic below snipped from a Holdings pane after clicking the Gear icon.  Show: Value selected.  Options other than Value possible.  
    image
  • Scott
    Scott Member ✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Scott said:

    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.
    Quicken H&B 2017 v R15  Build 26.1.15.5 (sorry about that).

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?
    Just downloaded data and quotes.

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance?
    It's actually a fund within an old hidden account that's no longer active. Shows -$488.29. It's listed in the Accounts column under "Seperate/More Accounts". When I click on More Accounts I can see the fund with the negative balance.  When I click on the old fund a registry opens but it appears normal. However in the Securities Value it shows -$488.38 (yes .38 not .29, odd) and the Cash Balance shows $0.00 with a Total Market Value of -$488.38.

    This seems to happen a couple of times a year and I don't know why. Have contacted Quicken in the past but don't remember what they had me do to correct it. Seems like hiding the value but not deleting the account... I'm pretty sure.

    I do see a negative "Shares" in the Account Overview window (Show:Value). When I get into transactions I can edit the last transaction. No idea how the share balance became incorrect. Anyway, the Securities Value is now .01. Argh. It shows as .10 under Separate -> More Accounts in the All Transactions column. Getting closer it seems, BUT now I'm seeing small amounts show up in other old/hidden funds. What the... (hope this makes sense).  I see there are three more old funds totaling + .09. FYI: the dbase file goes back to '94.
  • Scott
    Scott Member ✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Scott said:

    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.
    Quicken H&B 2017 v R15  Build 26.1.15.5 (sorry about that).

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?
    Just downloaded data and quotes.

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance?
    It's actually a fund within an old hidden account that's no longer active. Shows -$488.29. It's listed in the Accounts column under "Seperate/More Accounts". When I click on More Accounts I can see the fund with the negative balance.  When I click on the old fund a registry opens but it appears normal. However in the Securities Value it shows -$488.38 (yes .38 not .29, odd) and the Cash Balance shows $0.00 with a Total Market Value of -$488.38.

    This seems to happen a couple of times a year and I don't know why. Have contacted Quicken in the past but don't remember what they had me do to correct it. Seems like hiding the value but not deleting the account... I'm pretty sure.

    See above message first.

    I finally got someone on chat support last night that seemed to know what they were talking about. Short answer, I'm told, is to either delete the old offending funds and start a new database file and do so every three years. Mine goes back to '94 and has been through various updates and upgrades. I found a backup that got me to a point before the issues I listed and re-entered data. Odd thing is the older backup had some current data in it which makes NO sense.

    So it looks like the thing to do is backup frequently, which I do. Or start a new data file on 1/1/18 and do so every few years, apparently.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited December 2017
    Scott said:

    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.
    Quicken H&B 2017 v R15  Build 26.1.15.5 (sorry about that).

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?
    Just downloaded data and quotes.

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance?
    It's actually a fund within an old hidden account that's no longer active. Shows -$488.29. It's listed in the Accounts column under "Seperate/More Accounts". When I click on More Accounts I can see the fund with the negative balance.  When I click on the old fund a registry opens but it appears normal. However in the Securities Value it shows -$488.38 (yes .38 not .29, odd) and the Cash Balance shows $0.00 with a Total Market Value of -$488.38.

    This seems to happen a couple of times a year and I don't know why. Have contacted Quicken in the past but don't remember what they had me do to correct it. Seems like hiding the value but not deleting the account... I'm pretty sure.

    My data goes back to 1985...various checking, credit card and numerous investment accounts.

    I have never started a new file in Quicken.  All my data is in one file.

    I backup daily to multiple sources (hard drive, external hard drive and Dropbox cloud based drive).

    Scott...have you tried to FILE > FILE OPERATIONS > VALIDATE AND REPAIR and select "Rebuild investing lots".  

    I would backup first...and then try and see if that works for you.  Sometimes a price gets out of whack and messes things up.  It certainly can't hurt to try.  I would also try "Delete investing price history" if the rebuild fails to work.  All that can happen is it doesn't help your situation and you just restore the file you just backed up.  
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Scott,

    I have been using Quicken since 1999 and like B Hawks I have never had to start a new file. I have Quicken set to do a backup to a thumb drive every time I exit and that has saved me on a few occasions due to unrelated computer crashes.

    If you care about your investing and spending history and your only problem is a couple of old securities that never got zeroed out, I think it is well worth your time to at least try a Validate and Repair and then if necessary follow q.lurker's advice above and either correct the bad transactions or enter an Add or Remove to zero them out.

    It is very suspicious that you have new data in an old backup file. Are you sure you haven't been adding transactions to two files at once by mistake? Or did you open the backup and then download, which will bring in transactions from the past several months?
    QWin Premier subscription
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    I’ll echo the one-file stanza. Mine goes back to 1991. No issues. IMO, bad scripted advice from tier one support.



    Ditto the others’ advice here moving forward.
  • cobbersmom
    cobbersmom Member ✭✭
    edited February 2018

    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance? 

    I have the same problem using quicken 2018, R5.15 build 27.1.5.15, windows 10 pro. Using one step update, quicken has started added to the account list old closed accounts, and adding an additional existing account so now there are doubles. I don't know if there was a software update, sometimes this just "happens" without asking if I want that done. This is happening with several banks not just one and also a credit card. Seems to have started around the first of February. Normal passwords do not work for one step update that have worked for years. Any ideas??
  • Michael Jones
    Michael Jones Member, Windows Beta Beta
    edited February 2018

    You don't say what version of Quicken you are using.

    When you did the One Step Update, did it install a software update, or just download data and quotes?

    If you go to the old account, does it show a cash balance? If you click on Holdings, does it show a non-zero share balance? 

    Cobbersmom, you might get a better and faster response starting a new post with everything you have above vice posting on thread that has been updated in a couple months...  just sayin.  ;)
  • Quicken Sarah
    Quicken Sarah Administrator, Moderator mod
    edited July 2018
    Hello Everyone,

    Thank you for taking the time to report this issue.

    Our Development teams have been researching this behavior and have identified a bug with non-valid Reinvest Dividend or Reinvest Interest transactions with zero shares causing a discrepancy between the Net Worth report and the Portfolio view or value.

    A solution for these discrepancies has been found and estimated to be a part of the July release.  Please note, this date is an estimate and subject to change if any additional issues or problems are found during the testing phase.

    In the meantime, a workaround to solve these discrepancies is to delete the non-valid transactions.  These can be found by creating an Investment Transaction report filtered to show Reinvest Transactions only.

    I hope this information is helpful and please let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns.

    Thank you,

    Sarah
This discussion has been closed.