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Roth 401k with employer matching not recording into register (BUG)

Tom39
Tom39 Member ✭✭
edited January 2019 in Investing (Windows)
I upgraded to Quicken 2018.  In this revision, the Roth 401k still does not allow matching.  This creates a problem because Quicken refuses to fixed an acknowledged bug where either the pre-tax or the After-Tax Roth transfer disappears.  Quicken cannot transfer money, it just loses it.  This is unacceptable.  I wanted to add my solution.

Other users / similar problems here -- please fix this long-standing known bug! When I had a standard 401k with matching, I set up my paycheck and both my contribution and the matching moved correctly to my 401k account.

When I switched to a Roth 401k, there was no matching option.  I created a standard 401k transfer of $0.00 with a matching of $100. 

Now my matching showed up, but after-tax Roth 401k transferred into the void.  I followed instructions by other users and tried validating my data with no change.  I tried re-loading manually.  Sometimes the Roth would disappear, sometimes the matching would.  Every rare once in a while, it would work.  A financial program should not offer random outputs for the same input.

I was tired of manually editing and recreating my paycheck over and over to get a lucky result where it recorded.  This issue existed in Quicken 2017 and 2018, reading other posts it affects at least back to 2016 and 2015.
Solution:  Give up accurately tracking money.  You know, the thing Quicken is supposed to do. 
• Create a regular pre-tax 401k deposit of 0.01, and include matching.
• Add an after-tax Roth 401k transfer for the correct amount minus one penny. 
You'll be off a little at the end of the year but it works for me every time. 

Note:  I'm not touching mine now that it works.  I hope this solution also works for you.

Comments

  • Quicken Harold
    Quicken Harold Alumni ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Hello Tom. Appreciate your question.

    Are you using Quicken for Windows or Quicken for Mac? Which version are you using?

    Please let us know so that we can best help you.

    Respectfully,
    ~ Quicken Harold.
    Quicken Harold
    Community Moderator
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited September 2018
    I am using Quicken 2017 Home and Business and have the same problem. Seems like an easy fix to add roth 401k with employer match in after tax deductions in paycheck.
  • Mark Coil
    Mark Coil Member ✭✭
    edited January 2019
    I've had the same problem for several years, now using Quicken for Windows 2019 R14.27.

    When I enter a conventional 401k contribution with employer match, both entries transfer correctly to my 401k account. But when I enter a zero amount for my transfer and a positive match amount (yes, my employer does contribute even if I don't), sometimes the employer amount shows correctly in my 401k account and sometimes it doesn't. I've even had it transfer correctly and the next time I start Quicken, the transfer disappears from the register!

    The interesting thing is that an itemized category report correctly shows both sides of the transfer (INCOME, _401EmployerContrib and TRANSFERS, 401kAccount), even when it doesn't show in the 401k account register.
  • Mark Coil
    Mark Coil Member ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    I just made a new discovery in this problem. Yesterday I made another paycheck entry in my checking register with 0 employee contribution and a positive employer match. The transfer (Xln) showed correctly in the 401k register.

    Today, I started Quicken, and everything appeared correct. Then I accepted a matching downloaded transaction for the paycheck in my checking register and the transfer transaction in the 401k register disappeared!

    So then I edited the paycheck in my checking register and retyped the amount in the employer match, saved the transaction, and the transfer reappeared in the 401k register!

  • Tom39
    Tom39 Member ✭✭
    edited January 2019

    Hello Tom. Appreciate your question.

    Are you using Quicken for Windows or Quicken for Mac? Which version are you using?

    Please let us know so that we can best help you.

    Respectfully,
    ~ Quicken Harold.

    Quicken Harold, thank you for your reply.  I didn't expect a response and only returned when I googled to see if Quicken 2019 fixes this bug, so I apologize for my late reply.  Reading the below posts from Mark Coil implies that Quicken 2019 has the same years old bug, and that Quicken has not yet updated to account for matching in Roth 401k's that have been around since 2006, which was announced in the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001.

    I am using Windows 7, Quicken Deluxe 2017, latest updates to version R18.6, build 26.1.18.6.   (I mistakenly thought I had 2018 when I posted).

    I have a recent Jan 3 paycheck.  I have a matching, so my 401(k) pretax is 0, with matching attached to the Pre-tax 401k "transfer" of $0. 

    I then have two post tax Roth 401k amounts that didn't show up in my 401k account.as an "XIN" transfer:
    -- Yearly 401k tracked/limited by law of $xx17.43
    -- Untracked "outside of 401k" transfer of $xx76.98 after that, which did transfer.  Our plan allows us to also tranfer in money for personal investment, and it tracks that proper tax implication.  All my old 401k (pre-tax) and Roth 401k (post tax) are in the same Fidelity account, and it separates them out by type.

    I had 2 of 3 transfers showing up.  I tried fixing several ways to fix the transfer not showing up in the account, such as my above "I fixed it" trick of adding in a 1 cent pre-tax amount, and it didn't work.  I backed the fixes out and returned it to 0 cents.  That left me with only 1 transfer (matching) showing up in the 401k account.

    Swapping Roth and "extra 401k extra" amounts didn't work either; instead that made the matching amount no longer show up, even tough I didn't touch/edit that line. 

    So my original post about the 1 cent "fix" was just a random chance that Quicken tracked my money correctly that time.  I tried rebuilding the file a few times.  No luck.  I neither make Quicken to account for 13 year old accounting rules, nor track my money correctly. 

    What makes it worse is how random this bug is.  The paycheck before and after, using the same "auto paycheck setup" both worked.  This time it didn't.  And trying to fix it just makes it worse.  The randomness is maddening.  I would gladly send you my quicken data if you want to contact me offline from a Quicken email.

    See images below of my paycheck, with the transfers in blue, and the the subsequent transfers not showing up in the 401k account, but only for that week's paycheck.










  • Tom39
    Tom39 Member ✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Mark Coil said:

    I've had the same problem for several years, now using Quicken for Windows 2019 R14.27.

    When I enter a conventional 401k contribution with employer match, both entries transfer correctly to my 401k account. But when I enter a zero amount for my transfer and a positive match amount (yes, my employer does contribute even if I don't), sometimes the employer amount shows correctly in my 401k account and sometimes it doesn't. I've even had it transfer correctly and the next time I start Quicken, the transfer disappears from the register!

    The interesting thing is that an itemized category report correctly shows both sides of the transfer (INCOME, _401EmployerContrib and TRANSFERS, 401kAccount), even when it doesn't show in the 401k account register.

    Thank you for letting me know 2019 doesn't fix the bug.  My contributions appear and disappear as I try to edit/fix them. 

    At least I know not to waste my money on Quicken 2019.  Hopefully they fix it by Quicken 2020 when I "sunset" on my ability to update.
  • Tom39
    Tom39 Member ✭✭
    edited January 2019
    I can't edit my original post.  List of new ones as they show up:

     

    Additional Notes

    Quicken 2019 has not yet updated to account for matching in Roth 401k's that
    have been around since 2006.  The 2006 change was was announced in the Economic Growth
    and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001.

    I'm frustrated that Quicken knew Roth
    401k's were coming for 5 years and didn't add that ability in to Quicken
    2006.  And now it's been 18 years -- almost two decades -- without a proper fix.  And at least 3
    years that the "non-transfer" bug has been on getsatisfaction without
    resolve.

    It has been brought to Intuit's / Quicken's attention longer than the 3 years (2016) Quicken was spun off from intuit.  I'm not certain how long this "QuickenCommunity" has been on GetSatisfaction, but at least 3 years.  And older Intuit Quicken boards used to exist.  Here's an old link to those boards -- it doesn't work, I'm just showing Quicken  problems have been around, the old posts were deleted.
    For Quicken 2019, Quicken advertisements list "Includes over 500 customer-requested improvements and fixes"    https://www.quicken.com/whats-new-quicken

    If you scroll there's a link to read them.  Oh boy, are the big bugs fixed!
    No,
    the link takes you here:  "Listed below are prior release notes for the
    2018 Release of Quicken for Windows. "   

    Unless Quicken lists the 500 new fixes for 2019 (fixing bugs in 2018 doesn't count; that's already included) then it's just lies.
  • Tom39
    Tom39 Member ✭✭
    For those who are tracking this thread, I have found a "solution."

    While trying all the solutions elsewhere, I just started editing the the above values in my paycheck. 
    • In checking, I edited the (pre tax) 401k of $0, editing the matching to the exact same value and saving.  Then check the 401k account and see if it showed up as transferred.
    • Then back to checking,  I edited the Roth 401k so it was matching to the exact same value and saving (back space out the penny amount, then retype the same number you just erased).  Then check the 401k account and see if it showed up as transferred.
    • Last, if it hasn't worked so far, repeate the above for *both* amounts.  Then check the 401k account.
    Repeate the 3 above steps in a circcle, cross your fingers, wonder why the exact same input produces different outcomes, and eventually you will get both amounts recorded.

    I want to stress this again:  The same action produces different results, but you will eventually get the one you want.  If someone typed it with their toes while sipping an RC Cola, that does not mean you found a fix.  Quicken just took that random time to work.  Quicken has not thought this was important to fix (either the random results, or the Roth 401k with matching) since knowing about it in 2001.  18 years.

    I was also able to confirm that if the money leaves your checking account, but does not show up in your 401k account, then your net worth is reduced by that amount of "lost" money.


This discussion has been closed.