Understanding the In/Out Cash Flow Feature

David Potter

Hi All, can someone please help me to understand how the IN/OUT Cash Flow Feature works. I can understand parts of it but not all the values are explained in the help text.

Many Thanks.

David Christopher

I marked up your Cash Flow Feature and sending it back to you. It is attached.

David Potter

Hi David. I see now with your help the current month and understand the numbers. But November has figures higher than the highest Projected Balance in that period. So I don't understand where it get's 14750.87 from. Can you help further please by looking at the next 2 snap shots

David Potter

Hi David - Next image - Projected Balance for the same period.

David Christopher

David, I have been crunching you numbers for an hour or so. Your Projected Balance chart is correct where you have the High's circled. That is the Oct 31 balance of $12,277 is correct with the Oct Total Available through Oct 31 is concerned.  If I use the $12,277 figure and subtract your cash flow difference for Nov of $145 I get the $12132 figure as your Projected Balance graph shows. 

Where the $14896.59 figure comes from on Nov's IOWL, is beyond my ability with the info I have now.   Well, the difference between the two is $2618.67 which is the same amount as your October Transfers in on the Inflow side. It seems like Q is adding that to the $12277 to start November $14896.59.

That is all I can figure out with the numbers on these charts attached.  I would look into if you have a transfer in that is not categorized properly for November.

David Potter

Hi David. Really appreciate you looking into this, you have nailed the problem. I have a transfer in for the amount of 2618.67 once per month. I'll check how it is Categorised and change accordingly. Thank you so much for your time.

Kind regards
David

David Potter

Hi David. I found the problem, it surrounds a scheduled transfer for 2618.67 which occurs once per month. When the scheduled transfer exists within the Register the In/Out figures for the month concerned calculate correctly. When the next scheduled transfer only exists as a 'planned' transfer, IE, not yet posted to the register then the double-up occurs in the respective month. This I would say is a bug. What do you think? It has to be a transfer as it needs to reduce the account where it is coming from. I guess one workaround would be to use the auto enter function to have the transfers into the Register occur automatically say 6 at least months into the future.

BR
David

David Christopher

No, I do not think there is a bug.  I think you do not have the Transfer scheduled properly.  That is, the Reminder has a flaw. A scheduled transfer is just a transfer from one account to another account.

One problem may be where the money is coming From.  Since the IOWL only shows the transfer when it has been posted and the transfer is not reflected in the Projected Balance Graph, the problem is the Reminder and where the money is being transferred From.  

On your IOWL screen there is a Gear icon in upper right, click on and choose 'Select Accounts'.  Look for the account that the money is transferred from. (I have a feeling the money is coming from an Investment type account, of which I have none and do not know if those type accounts will show up on this list. But they are Assets so they should be there.) 

Anyway you may for some reason not have the Transfer Account selected or you may have it Checked to exclude from Reports. (Click the Change) link in the 'Show In >> Used for Column on that account. That opens up the Account Details screen to the Display Options tab. See if you have anything checked in the top portion.  If you do and it is for a reason you are sure of, leave it alone. If Account is not on the list, then follow instructions below.

In that case, since this is Income for your purposes, make a fake Income Reminder. (you will never enter this reminder into register, because every month you just click the down arrow and choose Skip this time. Then when the real transfer is posted your IOWL will reflect and the Transfer In and the fake Income will not  be there.  

I have a similar fake reminder that covers Variable expenses that show up in the 'Bills' under Outflow.  It is for $1390 or something close. That was my solution to not being able to schedule "variable expenses" that eventually show up in the 'Other Expenses' line during the month.  That way my projected balance chart will be as close as possible to reality for the future months. 

I attach a shot of the IOWL and Projected Balance chart for an example for you. You can do the same for this transfer so that your Projected Balance takes this transfer into account.

David Potter

Hi David, thanks for your continued support with this issue. Just a few observations to pass on.
1) These transfers have always been present in the Projected Balance View, that is how I noticed something not right in the IOWL view
2) I checked the Gear settings for IOWL and it correctly shows all the accounts required to drive the Calculations
3) The Transfers also show correctly in the Income and Transfer Column but they seem to get doubled up in the right hand side of the calculations unless they are posted physically into the Registry.

Thanks once again.

David

David Christopher

Well, I am at my end here.  I have asked superuser URK to take a look at this thread and see if he can recommend something.

David Potter

Hi David. Fully Understand and appreciate you escalating this issue.

Thanks for your assistance.

Kind regards

David Charles Potter

David Potter

Hi Community. I'm having problems reporting two issues which have passed through the Quicken Community and no solution found and it was then suggested to report the problems to Quicken. I first used Live Chat and after two weeks of wasting time reopening the Tickets after they were closed prematurely I was then told that is the wrong method to report a problem. I was told to use Quicken>Help>Report a Problem. I have done this now for both problems but have had no feedback. IE, no acknowledgement of any kind they have been looked at. Does anyone know how this should work? Should I receive a response from my submitting those problems and then have some method to ask for follow-up progress.

Many thanks

David

Rocket J Squirrel

The "Report a Problem" dialog explicitly says "We will not respond to your report directly."

There's kind of a roundabout way to get a bug reported. Some of us users on this forum are also beta testers. If you can describe a bug in great detail, including instructions on how to reproduce it, AND a beta tester can reproduce it, the tester can submit an official bug report. Testers may not submit 3rd party bug reports without personally reproducing them.

Or you are welcome to apply to become a tester yourself.

David Potter

Hi Rocket - thank you very much for the reply I was beginning to give up hope. Can you help me further on this? I have documented the problems and provided screen shots detailing precisely what is wrong. The first is a problem with the In / Out What's Left feature. This is not a report but a graphical feature showing Income, Outgoings and What's Left month by month. The second involves the Projected Cash Flow feature, again a Graphical description of an Accounts Balance over time.

Kind Regards

David Potter

Rocket J Squirrel

Sorry to say, I have never used In/Out/What's Left nor have I used Projected Cash Flow. I don't even know how these features are supposed to work. I would have to learn these features from scratch, so I'm not a good candidate to try to reproduce this.

Maybe someone with expertise in this area will take a look and chime in.

David Potter

Thank you Rocket. I do hope so.

David Christopher

@Dave Potter.  I would like a shot at your problems as I think I have mastered the In-Out-What is Left graphics, as well as, how to manipulate the Projected Balance Graphics.  If you would be so kind as to re-state the two problems you are having, I would be happy to take a look at it.  Include your screen shots as well.

David Potter

Hi David, you helped me once before with these issues and your colleague also had a look at the problem. But it ended up with you both suggesting I report to Quicken. And that has been the problem ever since - getting both recognised as genuine bugs in my mind. But feel free to take a fresh look. I have attached two PDF's explaining each issue with screen shots and how the problem is created. I hope they are clear enough but shout out if you need any further info.

Thanks very much for reaching out.

David Potter

chitownhockey

In the In/Out/What's Left cash flow, click on the gear on the upper right.

1 Select Accounts.  Make sure the correct cash flow accounts are included.  In some cases, you may have to CHANGE the account to get these included.  

2 Make sure Account Balances is checked (NOT Spending).  

See if that makes a difference.

As to your Projected Balance issue, I'm not sure why you can't get the second register to get to 2050, when you can get the first one to do so.

This may be the stupidest thing I've ever recommended, but did you try to grab the screen and make the lower register part larger to accommodate ten more years worth of data?

I think a bigger question here, however, is who the heck is projecting balances 30 years in the future anyways????  And why?

chitownhockey

Just an FYI, in the Projected Balances area I set mine to a Custom Date of 2050 and I only got Income and Bill Reminders until 2024.  

And when I set it to only one account (my checking account), set a Custom Date to 2050 I only got Income and Bill reminders until 2027...but the graph extrapolated to 2050.  

Once again, I have no clue how any of this information 30 years in the future could be of any value.  Maybe I just don't get it. 

David Potter

Hi chitownhockey. Sorry for the late response and thank you for taking a look into this. The settings you described in the In / Out What's Left made no difference sorry to say. And it looks like your are seeing the same problem I have in that the Projected Balance>Show Details list does not mirror what is shown in the Graph.
The reason I need to project that far forward is for Retirement Planning. I have pension savings accounts whereby I can decide how much to take out each month as income. So I need to project how long those savings pots will last through my retirement. So it is important to me.
I have looked at the Life Time Planner but the Pension Income is a fixed amount so it can't model what I want to do, being vary the Pension Income over time.
I have attached the two documents I created which explain how to reproduce the issues and my conclusions.

David Potter

I should have said the In / Out What's Left settings were already correct and in line with your recommendations.

Best wishes
David

David Christopher

@Quicken Sarah Sarah
I opened my test file and made a new transfer reminder from a Savings Goal to a checking account.  It was for $100.  It does not show on the In Out What Left Graphic for November or December, but after being posted the 100 shows up in the In Out What Left for November but not for December on.  (Inflow section)

Next I made a transfer reminder for a transfer from a regular savings account to a checking account for 400.  It did not show up until posted either. 

So if there is a flaw, that is it. Transfer reminders in the Inflow section of I O W L does not work, nor is it carried into the Projected Balance graphic. 

I @'ed a moderator to see if she can get involved and help David Potter with this issue.
Original thread or conversation.
https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7861857/understanding-the-in-out-cash-flow-feature#latest

chitownhockey

David Potter said:

I should have said the In / Out What's Left settings were already correct and in line with your recommendations.

Best wishes
David

I don't think you're going to get Quicken to extrapolate 30 years in advance for Bill and Income Reminders in Quicken...although you were able to do it for one account.

I understand what you're trying to accomplish now...thanks for the explanation.  But I don't think what you're trying to do is the place to do it.

The Lifetime Planner should be the place for your calculations...although it doesn't work for every person's scenario.  

Here's what I would do...take the amount of your pension FROM THE GRAPH in 2050 and enter that amount into the Lifetime Planner, since you can't get that amount from using the Bill and Income Reminder section.

Or, if that is inaccurate, you may need to create an Excel spreadsheet and calculate that amount separately and manually enter it into Quicken that way.

I really don't see how you're going to get Quicken to "fix" what you want...because I don't see Quicken putting reminders in for 30 years in advance for you.  I know they did it for one account...and I don't know why it's not consistent over the other account. 

chitownhockey

David Christopher said:

@Quicken Sarah Sarah
I opened my test file and made a new transfer reminder from a Savings Goal to a checking account.  It was for $100.  It does not show on the In Out What Left Graphic for November or December, but after being posted the 100 shows up in the In Out What Left for November but not for December on.  (Inflow section)

Next I made a transfer reminder for a transfer from a regular savings account to a checking account for 400.  It did not show up until posted either. 

So if there is a flaw, that is it. Transfer reminders in the Inflow section of I O W L does not work, nor is it carried into the Projected Balance graphic. 

I @'ed a moderator to see if she can get involved and help David Potter with this issue.
Original thread or conversation.
https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7861857/understanding-the-in-out-cash-flow-feature#latest

Transfer reminders work just fine in the In/Out/What's Left area.  

First off, this is a Cash Flow calculation...so if you're moving money from savings to checking, there is no cash flow.  The net is zero.  That's why you're not seeing it.  You're basically just taking money from one pocket to another.  Nothing really changed. 

Second, I did have an issue earlier where transfer scheduled transactions did not show up from an investment account to my checking account in the In/Out/What's Left section.

I had to delete the Transfer reminder from the Bills and Income section and re-enter it.  It then appeared as it should.

And finally, you have to make sure that the accounts you want in that section are correctly selected.  Unselecting my investment account and every other accounts except for my checking, savings and cash accounts gave me the one sided transfer of my checking account that I wanted to see.  

David Potter

@chitownhockey, Sorry but I completely disagree, Of course the net cash flow will be zero. The Problem lies in the right hand column calculation for Beginning of the Month and the End of the Month available cash. These values are doubled up where there are future Transfer Reminders not yet posted to the Register. Once posted then the calculations are correct! See the document I sent to you.

David Potter

> @chitownhockey said:
> (Quote)
> I don't think you're going to get Quicken to extrapolate 30 years in advance for Bill and Income Reminders in Quicken...although you were able to do it for one account.
>
> I understand what you're trying to accomplish now...thanks for the explanation.  But I don't think what you're trying to do is the place to do it.
>
> The Lifetime Planner should be the place for your calculations...although it doesn't work for every person's scenario.  
>
> Here's what I would do...take the amount of your pension FROM THE GRAPH in 2050 and enter that amount into the Lifetime Planner, since you can't get that amount from using the Bill and Income Reminder section.
>
> Or, if that is inaccurate, you may need to create an Excel spreadsheet and calculate that amount separately and manually enter it into Quicken that way.
>
> I really don't see how you're going to get Quicken to "fix" what you want...because I don't see Quicken putting reminders in for 30 years in advance for you.  I know they did it for one account...and I don't know why it's not consistent over the other account. 

@chitownhockey Again - I stress it is already doing it for all accounts, by setting No End Date in the Reminder Setup. And it is doing it perfectly when viewing the Projected Balance Graph data with Custom Date set around 2050. The Graphical Line contains all data points for the date range entered. The Issue is that the Show Detail list of transactions does not reflect what is in the Graph Line. That cannot be right and must be a BUG in the way the data is selected when displaying Show Details it is clearly not fetching all data.

David Potter

@chitownhockey I'm new to the Life Time Planner but my experience so far is that it does not allow varying Pension Income amounts over time or I least I can't see that. Perhaps you can elaborate on where in the Planner this can be done and how.

chitownhockey

In the Lifetime Planner, enter the pension in the Retirement Benefits > Pension Benefits.  

There, you can create a custom rate COLA (cost of living adjustment) which could mimic your escalating pension payments.



Alternatively, you could instead add Other Income.  Although it says it shouldn't be used for pensions or investments, you could use that area to adjust the amount on a yearly basis.

Since this is a rather unique situation, you may not get the calculations you need in Quicken.  That's why I said you may have to use a spreadsheet to do so.  I haven't seen anyone with this issue posting this in the Community.

Also, the Lifetime Planner certainly is just a tool, a guideline, an estimate to your retirement.  If you think this is a spot on actual dollar amount that you can solely depend on for your calculations, it's not.  

In which case, you just may have to estimate or continually adjust your pension amount in the planner.  Sorry I don't have any better results for you.  

David Potter

@chitownhockey, sorry for the late reply. Thanks for the above Liftime Planner setup guidance - I'll try it out. Regards David Potter

David Potter

@David Christopher . Hi David have you recieved anything back from Sarah?
I have had nothing directly. Regards
David Potter