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Today's Update cause old reconciled transaction to be duplicated in several accounts

DaisyDoo

Had open yesterday and all was fine. Opened today and it installed a new update to Year 2020 / Version R28.16 / Build 27.1.28.16

I performed a one-step update and it performed as normal. I then looked and realized several accounts had changed the balance amount even before I had accepted any transaction.

Investigation revealed that assorted random transactions, anywhere from 2017 to 2020, had been duplicated. The original transaction had been cleared and reconciled long ago. It appears very random as to which transaction were duplicated and it could be anywhere from one to a dozen or more. There is no pattern. It could be a payment or a deposit transaction.

The transactions that were actually downloaded today did not duplicate and the duplicate transactions are not in the downloaded transaction list. The duplicates just appeared. They do not show as cleared or reconciled so are easy to find but having some registers that go back 10 to 20 years, it will take a little time.

Additionally, the registers themselves were sorted in a different manner than I have always had my sort set to. They were sorted in reverse order by date (newest at top, oldest at bottom). All my registers are always sorted by Date / Order Entered with the oldest at the top and newest at the bottom. Only the registers that contain the duplicated transaction are sorted wrong.

I can sort through and delete the duplicated transactions but if this is going to happen each time I open Quicken, it is a major issue.

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Accepted answers

NotACPA

Whoever you talked to at Support is, simply, wrong. Head to this link and pick the appropriate patch level that you want to downgrade to. BE SURE to get your product year/subscription correct ... then simply download and then install the patch.

QuickNPerlWiz is, under another ID, a SuperUser of this forum.

http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/quickenpatches.html

Don Bartenstein

NotACPA said:

Whoever you talked to at Support is, simply, wrong. Head to this link and pick the appropriate patch level that you want to downgrade to. BE SURE to get your product year/subscription correct ... then simply download and then install the patch.
QuickNPerlWiz is, under another ID, a SuperUser of this forum.

http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/quickenpatches.html

Much Thanks! I was in panic mode for a minute!

Quicken Sarah

Hi All,

Our Teams have been investigating the duplicate transaction behavior and have created a solution that is part of the R28.18 hot fix, now available in staged release format.

If you would prefer to not wait for this release to go live to all Users, please download and install the Mondo Patch, available here.

Once installed, the duplicated transactions should not occur again, but please let us know how it goes.

Thank you,

Sarah

All comments

DaisyDoo

After the first event, I reverted to the backup data file that was created as part of the update process. And yes, I expected the duplication to occur again but this time I was expecting it so I went through all the affected registers and removed all the duplicate entries first and then accepted any new transactions. After all that, I then backed up that version of the data file and have completed two additional OSU's since with no issues with duplicates. So it appears that was a one time event.

I have however, seen a repeat of the other issue that appeared with that update which even today when I opened the data file and performed an OSU, it is changing the sort order on the same registers that were affected the first time around. This despite me changing them to my preferred sort order when I did the register repair work.

They are being changed to a by date only sort with the newest entries at the top of the register. I had changed them to sort by Date / Order Entered with the newest entries at the bottom of the register. I will monitor this effect and report back on whether it continues.

DaisyDoo

Ok, so had to get back in again today to add some bill reminders (so I wouldn't forget later) and there are two issues that are still persistently occurring.

One, after doing the OSU, the registers that originally saw the duplicates after the update are still reverting back to the undesired sort order of By Date with the newest at the top. This, despite me having reset them to my desired setting earlier today. The sort order does not change until I perform the OSU.

Two, the local ID login popup is presented even though I have it set not to in the preferences. Further, after I enter my credentials, the program essentially hangs and will go no further (5 minutes or more) and I am forced to shut it down by cancelling the login window a couple times and eventually closing the program. I then re-open it, am presented with the login window and when I enter my credentials, it churns for a minute and then acts like it's the first time I have logged in with those credentials as it presents a welcome to Quicken screen.

Curious how widespread the problems are with this release as it may be beneficial to push an update that forcibly takes Quicken back to the previous version.

cbw65

> @Boatnmaniac said:
> (Quote)
> Did you accept and then delete all the downloaded duplicate files and then run OSU with that same file, again? That will allow Quicken to "relearn" what has been downloaded so in the future those duplicate transactions will be filtered out and you should not see them, again.
> But if what you are doing is running OSU on restored backup files then you are doing that on a file(s) that has not yet "relearned" so it is not surprising that you saw the same duplicate transactions behavior, again.

Quick followup for those following the thread...

This morning I decided to again try and tackle this problem. Following the instructions earlier in this thread, I had previously rolled back to R27.42. This morning, instead of doing the mass One Step Update, I went to each individual account and chose the "Update Now" option. I saved Schools First Federal Credit Union, which is my primary banking accounts and had the most problems before, for last. Went through my various accounts one by one with NO duplicate entries. Saved another backup, held my breath, and updated SFFCU. It updated with no duplicates, did download some recent transactions from the last few days, however it missed two transactions (one a POS debit card transaction, one a check deposit). I have been experiencing missed transactions with this account since it transitioned to the new connection method a few weeks ago. Note that on Friday 8/14 when I tried OSU on after rolling back to this version I was still getting all the duplicates going back several years. I was also experiencing the behavior that someone else reported with many transactions linked to "[Unassigned Account] ".

I then tried a OSU and no further transactions were found. I was not prompted to update to the latest version. I also tried the "Check For Updates" option under the Help menu, and it stated I was on the latest version.

Based on my experience today:
1. I wonder if Quicken has disabled the updating to the latest update due to reported problems.
2. While annoying and I hope it gets eventually fixed, I would MUCH rather deal with a few missed downloaded transactions rather than having dozens of duplicates to sort through.

Boatnmaniac

cbw65 said:

> @Boatnmaniac said:
> (Quote)
> Did you accept and then delete all the downloaded duplicate files and then run OSU with that same file, again? That will allow Quicken to "relearn" what has been downloaded so in the future those duplicate transactions will be filtered out and you should not see them, again.
> But if what you are doing is running OSU on restored backup files then you are doing that on a file(s) that has not yet "relearned" so it is not surprising that you saw the same duplicate transactions behavior, again.

Quick followup for those following the thread...

This morning I decided to again try and tackle this problem. Following the instructions earlier in this thread, I had previously rolled back to R27.42. This morning, instead of doing the mass One Step Update, I went to each individual account and chose the "Update Now" option. I saved Schools First Federal Credit Union, which is my primary banking accounts and had the most problems before, for last. Went through my various accounts one by one with NO duplicate entries. Saved another backup, held my breath, and updated SFFCU. It updated with no duplicates, did download some recent transactions from the last few days, however it missed two transactions (one a POS debit card transaction, one a check deposit). I have been experiencing missed transactions with this account since it transitioned to the new connection method a few weeks ago. Note that on Friday 8/14 when I tried OSU on after rolling back to this version I was still getting all the duplicates going back several years. I was also experiencing the behavior that someone else reported with many transactions linked to "[Unassigned Account] ".

I then tried a OSU and no further transactions were found. I was not prompted to update to the latest version. I also tried the "Check For Updates" option under the Help menu, and it stated I was on the latest version.

Based on my experience today:
1. I wonder if Quicken has disabled the updating to the latest update due to reported problems.
2. While annoying and I hope it gets eventually fixed, I would MUCH rather deal with a few missed downloaded transactions rather than having dozens of duplicates to sort through.

I have received no notice that Quicken has disabled updating to R28.16. They might have but I think it is more likely that the limited release of R28.16 to 20K users has not yet been fully released to everyone. The R28.16 Mondo Patch has, however, been released to anyone who wants to manually download and install it.

I do think that you are perhaps misunderstanding the significance of the duplicates downloading. It only happens 1X and only with the 1st OSU once R28.16 has been installed. The max number of transactions downloaded from an FI is set by the FI. Most FIs limit the number of transactions they will initially download to less than 90 days but some will download much more. Only a few people have posted seeing hundreds of duplicates downloaded. But regardless of how many duplicates have been downloaded it is very easy and fast to do a mass deletion of the duplicates....can be done in 1-3 minutes per account to review and delete all of the duplicates, even when there are hundreds of duplicates involved.

For me, nearly half of my EWC transactions were not downloading when I was running R28.10...just about every single time I ran OSU. I have 4 data files that I do OSU on 2X/day and all of those missed transactions were adding many hours each week to the amount of time spent managing those data files. Since I have updated to R28.16 I've gotten my life back. But your situation may be different so I can appreciate that what you value is different.

One last question regarding the transfer transactions linked to "[Unassigned Account] ": Are you sure those transactions weren't some of the duplicates that had been downloaded and not previously entered transfer transactions had the linked account deleted?

markus1957

@Boatnmaniac - I think you may be misunderstanding the source of the duplicates.

Duplicates went back to 2017. The 2017 cut-off along with the Unassigned Account category point to the transactions being harvested from the Web App cloud file rather than going back to the FIs for a new download. The web app only loads the previous 3 years on initial sync and Unassigned Account is used for transfers to/from accounts not set up to sync.

In my case, sync was turned off so it appears a Cloud Sync transaction file is being kept for EWC accounts regardless of whether sync is active. Not really a surprise, but some will not like that.

DaisyDoo

Continued on additional errant actions from the most recent update.

1) When opening Quicken, it presents the Quicken ID login popup screen despite this feature being turned off in the preferences.
Once the credentials are entered, the moving circle icon is displayed and will not go away. Waiting as long as 10 minutes (I have monitored the time) and nothing changes. I have to force Quicken to close.
On the next iteration of opening Quicken, the login screen is again presented and after presenting the credentials, it processes the login and presents the initial welcome screen as if it were the first time I was logging in with the Quicken ID.
Today however, there are additional problems. On the first attempt to open Quicken after the hanging login attempt, the program opened after the credentials were entered but I immediately noticed that the color scheme had changed back to the default Blue. I had always had my preferences set to Teal. The program then crashed and closed with a popup from something called Bug Squat (or something like that) wanting to send a bug report in with some attached files. Since there was nothing identifying this as a function of Quicken, I closed the popup without sending the bug report.
I then opened quicken a third time and it did not present the login screen. I reset my color scheme setting and closed and reopened a fourth time. Again, it did not present the login screen this time but I will be checking it daily to see if that action recurs.

2) The registers that initially contained the duplicated entries after the update continue to revert to the incorrect sort order. Only those registers are affected. They sort By Date descending (newest at top). I have to reset them to sort by Date / Order Entered ascending each time.

Quicken Sarah

Don Bartenstein

Quicken Sarah said:

Hi All,

Our Teams have been investigating the duplicate transaction behavior and have created a solution that is part of the R28.18 hot fix, now available in staged release format.

If you would prefer to not wait for this release to go live to all Users, please download and install the Mondo Patch, available here.

Once installed, the duplicated transactions should not occur again, but please let us know how it goes.

Thank you,

Sarah

Thanks Sarah. This seems to have worked for me.

Boatnmaniac

DaisyDoo said:

Continued on additional errant actions from the most recent update.

1) When opening Quicken, it presents the Quicken ID login popup screen despite this feature being turned off in the preferences.
Once the credentials are entered, the moving circle icon is displayed and will not go away. Waiting as long as 10 minutes (I have monitored the time) and nothing changes. I have to force Quicken to close.
On the next iteration of opening Quicken, the login screen is again presented and after presenting the credentials, it processes the login and presents the initial welcome screen as if it were the first time I was logging in with the Quicken ID.
Today however, there are additional problems. On the first attempt to open Quicken after the hanging login attempt, the program opened after the credentials were entered but I immediately noticed that the color scheme had changed back to the default Blue. I had always had my preferences set to Teal. The program then crashed and closed with a popup from something called Bug Squat (or something like that) wanting to send a bug report in with some attached files. Since there was nothing identifying this as a function of Quicken, I closed the popup without sending the bug report.
I then opened quicken a third time and it did not present the login screen. I reset my color scheme setting and closed and reopened a fourth time. Again, it did not present the login screen this time but I will be checking it daily to see if that action recurs.

2) The registers that initially contained the duplicated entries after the update continue to revert to the incorrect sort order. Only those registers are affected. They sort By Date descending (newest at top). I have to reset them to sort by Date / Order Entered ascending each time.

I'm not sure what login feature preference you have off. I don't believe there is a program startup preference you can set for logging in or not logging in with your Quicken ID and PW. Quicken should automatically be saving that. Maybe you are thinking of having your preferences set to not require a PW for your data file? That is an optional setting.

It almost sounds like there is something from outside of your program that might be causing these issues. One thing some other people posted is that they were syncing with Mobile & Web and were experiencing at least some of what you are. Once they turned Mobile & Web off, they were then able to sign into Quicken as a different user without their system crashing and doing those other weird things.

I know you had mentioned earlier that you do not use Mobile or Web but you might want to confirm that you are not set up for it: Edit > Preferences > Mobile & Web. If Sync is turned on, turn it off.

Then go to Quicken ID & Cloud Accounts and sign in as a different user. When you are prompted to log in, again, use your current Quicken ID and PW.

FYI: Bug Splat is a tool used by Quicken to report program crashes to the Quicken Development team. They use the report generated by Bug Splat to determine what program improvements might need to be made. It's a good idea to type a brief summary of what you were attempting to do when Quicken crashed and then to send the report that Bug Splat created.

cbw65

> @Quicken Sarah said:
> Hi All,
>
> Our Teams have been investigating the duplicate transaction behavior and have created a solution that is part of the R28.18 hot fix, now available in staged release format.
>
> If you would prefer to not wait for this release to go live to all Users, please download and install the Mondo Patch, available here.
>
> Once installed, the duplicated transactions should not occur again, but please let us know how it goes.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Sarah

This new version seems to have worked for me also. I was able to use OSU and I did not have a repeat of the many duplicate entries.

BTW - I should also report that I did get the same error that DaisyDoo reported about the Quicken Login screen hanging and having to force-close the program to get past it. Did not see this error either with the latest update.

One more unsolicited observation, one I hope doesn't veer the thread in another direction, but here goes:

Boatmaniac, while I see that you are a "superuser" and no doubt spend time here in an effort to help those of us experiencing problems, you do seem to have a tone of "the problem you are experiencing is not really that bad" or "you must have done something in the settings". While I am brand new to this forum, I am not new to Quicken - I have been using it since I had to install on Floppies.

I expect Quicken, just like my bank accounts, to accurately reflect my banking activity. Any errors that cause me to question the accuracy is critical - even if there is a "work around" or some way to fudge it. While you, and even many of us on this forum can probably figure these work-arounds out, I suspect that there are hundreds of more customers who either won't notice, or just give up using the software.

When people come here to (a) report and issue, and (b) to get advice and help, it is off-putting to be made to feel that the problem you reported is minimal or you caused it yourself. I suppose that both of those things *could* be true, it is rarely helpful to come off as a condescending.

I will assume your good intentions, and I appreciate you offering assistance, so I hope this criticism is taken as intended - to continue to support others in a beneficial way.

DaisyDoo

As of today, the issue with the login screen seems to have abated. I confirmed the web/mobile sync setting was OFF. The login screen was not for the data file password that can be used (which is also disabled and actually, never configured) as it wanted the actual Quicken ID (I use an email address) and password. As it has not appeared for two consecutive days, perhaps this behavior as stopped.

The sort order of the originally affected registers continues to revert to Date Descending despite me repeatedly changing them to Date / Order Entered Ascending. This appears to be the only recurring effect from the update.

My plan is to install the Mondo patch later this week to see if that addresses this issue. I will report back after I install the patch.

martyh

Wanted to chime in on the discussion given that it's dealing with issues that have arisen after last week's update. I encountered (and am still dealing with) the issue of duplicate entries appearing after running an OSU (https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7879573/why-are-matched-transactions-automatically-added-as-duplicates-to-the-register). The Mondo patch apparently didn't work for me. Tonight, I even had a manually-entered transaction disappear after an OSU.

Another issue I have been experiencing since the update is that when I enter a payee that has been memorized, the category is not automatically filling in. In the payee field, I see the memorized payee name, and the last category entries used for that payee. Whichever one I select, the category remains blank.

@DaisyDoo — Every time I open my file, the data file password box appears, but a full-screen Quicken ID login page also appears behind the data file password box. When I enter the data file password, the Quicken ID login page eventually closes and the accounts page opens. I've never entered my Quicken ID into that page, and have always questioned why it even appears (that behavior started when I 'upgraded' to the subscription plan).

toekneel02

I've been using Quicken for about 20 years, and I'm getting 20 years worth of duplicated entries suddenly showing up. My download worked on 8/19/2020, but download of 8/20/2020 is when this began. I attempted using a backup version of my *.QDF, but with three different attempts and then downloading the Mondo patch and attempting again, I'm getting the same results. This effectively has made Quicken totally unusable for me. When I've run the update, I get a popup box that repeats several times along the lines of "Is this existing transaction in account xxx the same transaction as the transfer you just entered?" In this case, it displays an item dated 3/30/2007, the payee, and the amount. It give the option of "YES" or "NO". I've tried working with both but neither clears up the issue. It does not appear for all transactions; only a small handful of them. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see if a real solution emerges... until then, I'll keep all my options open.

toekneel02

Thank you, NotACPA, for posting the link. I loaded 28.10 and was able to run my update properly. I'll hold off on posting updates from Quicken for awhile! That is definitely the source of the problem.

Don Bartenstein

martyh said:

Another issue I have been experiencing since the update is that when I enter a payee that has been memorized, the category is not automatically filling in. In the payee field, I see the memorized payee name, and the last category entries used for that payee. Whichever one I select, the category remains blank.

I was having that issue too. Check your Quickfill preferences. Mine somehow got unchecked during a recent update.

DaisyDoo

So, this thing just won't go away.

The unwanted sorting order of the affected accounts is STILL occurring. This is an annoyance that needs to be addressed.

More of an issue however is that during the first reconcile of one of my major banks accounts since the update, I have discovered their are still some anomalous entries in the register that are both Cleared and Reconciled. Trying to find these in the thousands of register entries will be a total nightmare.

I have confirmed this by noting the Previous Balance number when the reconcile window opens with the current file. If I proceed with that reconcile there is a balance difference that should not be there.

I then opened the pre-update backup and started the reconcile process and the Previous Balance number was correct and the difference between it and the new Previous Balance matched exactly the amount that the new reconcile showed to be the difference in the balance.

The amount does not match any individual register entry. All entries that are cleared but not reconciled have been accounted for and are not errant. This means that the duplicate entries that are causing the problem are buried somewhere in the thousands of transactions previously reconciled.

The question of the day here is, IF I open the copy that was backed up prior to the update that blew everything up, will it allow a OSU without causing al the duplication ???

I really don't have time to experiment and I really don't have time to sort through thousands of entries to find a handful of errant ones.

markus1957

DaisyDoo said:

The question of the day here is, IF I open the copy that was backed up prior to the update that blew everything up, will it allow a OSU without causing al the duplication ???

I really don't have time to experiment and I really don't have time to sort through thousands of entries to find a handful of errant ones.

Short answer- No, But...

Assuming SYNC is turned OFF, it will allow you download and then check to see if duplicates came in by sorting the register by Date Entered. All the duplicates will be at the end of the register where they can be bulk deleted with the Shift key; taking care to skip any really new transactions.

You could do that now but it will be harder because as days pass, the order entered becomes less relevant.

Boatnmaniac

DaisyDoo said:

So, this thing just won't go away.

The unwanted sorting order of the affected accounts is STILL occurring. This is an annoyance that needs to be addressed.

Is "Remember register filters after Quicken closes" in your Preferences checked?

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6031128/uploads/editor/dm/fkvskh0solfz.png

DaisyDoo

Checked the Register Filters switch and it was turned off. I need to clarify however, when I open quicken, the registers are sorted correctly. It is not until I run OSU that they become sorted the wrong way. And only on the affected accounts and regardless of whether there are any new transaction or not. This occurs even after I changed the filter switch and closed then reopened quicken. But only after the OSU.

The Enter Quicken ID Password dialog box has also returned. It is not every time but often enough and a few times, the dialog box remains blank, not even showing the sign in form. The last time it did show the form, I signed in and it immediately crashed can a BUGSPLAT dialog opened up asking to send data. There is no indication that this is connected with Quicken so I am not sending data.

Using the sorting option Order Entered did allow me to isolate about 15 more duplicated entries from 2017 in my primary bank account and one in my secondary bank account. This allowed me to reconcile correctly. I normally reconcile every 2-3 months because I trust what the software is doing and I know what my approximate balances should be but this situation almost caused me to go negative which would have incurred bank charges.

This is a big black eye on Quicken. Generally after I began the subscription service earlier this year, Quicken was operating relatively well. Even the GUI was performing better than it had in a long time but this update has even negated a lot of that with intermittent screen freezes, refreshes and slower responses to actions coming back into the picture.

mariebajc

downloading the Mondo Patch that Quicken Sarah posted above made my problem of the duplicates worse! How do I fix all my spending and savings accounts that are hundreds of the thousands off? Now how do I fix this huge mess across all my accounts?

Boatnmaniac

mariebajc said:

downloading the Mondo Patch that Quicken Sarah posted above made my problem of the duplicates worse! How do I fix all my spending and savings accounts that are hundreds of the thousands off? Now how do I fix this huge mess across all my accounts?

Please advise what revision your Quicken is running (Help > About Quicken). This information is needed before advice can be offered.