NVIDIA - Schwab stock split - Tuesday 7/20/21 - you may see some issues

Ps56k2
Ps56k2 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 20 in Investing (Windows)
Nvidia did a 4:1 stock split as of today 7/20 -
I happen to notice a couple of things...
#1 - the Schwab download had the 4:1 split -
AND - also wanted to ADD the extra shares to Quicken.
I Deleted the ADD transaction so as to not inflate the number of shares.
#2 - still noticed that dollars and the Account Detail showed some bogus info going back to Friday.  It appears the stock price was set at 1/4 as of last Friday vs today Tuesday... so, again, I just deleted those couple of Edit Price entries, and all is good.
Always good to check any stock share or pricing changes downloaded from brokerages.
Quicken Subscription - Windows 10

Comments

  • isonclubikin
    isonclubikin Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20
    I'm having trouble figuring out what to enter for the NVIDIA 4:1 stock split that went into effect today (07/20/2021).  Due to re-investments, I went into the split already having fractional shares.  Instead of entering a split transaction into my account, my brokerage just added an amount of shares equal to the truncation of 3 times the shares I had.

    As an example, if I'd had 100.5 shares before the split, they would have added 301 shares to my account, giving me 401.5 shares after the split.  So far, I don't see any cash added for the half a share difference between their 301 shares and what I'd say should have been 301.5 shares I'd have expected.

    So, assuming that fractional share's worth of cash will appear in my account at some time, how would I enter this into Quicken?  Should I do what my brokerage did and just add the shares (as well as add cash for the fractional share)?  Or should I do an actual 4:1 split and a sell for the fractional shares?
  • UKR
    UKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Usually, IIRC, it takes a day or two until you see a "CIL (Cash in Lieu)" transaction for your fractional shares. Check the brokerage website before you record your own CIL transaction.
    Personally, I would not accept any downloaded Add Shares transactions but record a manual Split transaction in my account. That seems to work better for keeping the numbers correct.
  • isonclubikin
    isonclubikin Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20
    Thanks.  That's what I was thinking, too.

    But, let me add a bit more that's puzzling.  I entered the 4:1 split and got rid of the brokerage's Add Shares.  I even entered an optional Price After Split in the split dialog of $187.7975 (1/4 of yesterday's closing price of $751.19).  But, with Quicken currently showing the current price to be $185.725 (a loss of $2.0725 or 1.1%), it's also claiming that's a GAIN of $138.775625 or 295.59%.  My Price History reflects what I think are the correct numbers.  Where is Quicken getting a gain of over $100 or about 300%?
  • isonclubikin
    isonclubikin Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20
    Ps56k2 said:
    ...still noticed that dollars and the Account Detail showed some bogus info going back to Friday.  It appears the stock price was set at 1/4 as of last Friday vs today Tuesday... so, again, I just deleted those couple of Edit Price entries, and all is good.
    Always good to check any stock share or pricing changes downloaded from brokerages.
    Where did you see the spurious entries that you deleted?  After manually entering a 4:1 split and deleting my brokerage's Add Shares, I'm seeing an incorrect daily gain in price in Quicken's Portfolio Value screen and my previous day's NVIDIA market price are entirely wrong.  Yet, all looks fine in the account registers.

    EDIT:  Also, even though my NVIDIA market values are 1/4 of what they should be as I go back through time on that Portfolio Value page (it looks like it divided all my price history values by 4 (which I believe is correct), but didn't multiply my shares by 4 until the date of the split (which I believe is wrong)), when I bring up the NVIDIA Security Detail View and look at the market value graph, it's correct.
  • Ps56k2
    Ps56k2 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20
    Look at - NVDA - Security Detail View ->> at the top --> MORE --> Edit Price History -->
    I just deleted the entries that were bogus
    Quicken Subscription - Windows 10
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ps56k2 said:
    ...still noticed that dollars and the Account Detail showed some bogus info going back to Friday.  It appears the stock price was set at 1/4 as of last Friday vs today Tuesday... so, again, I just deleted those couple of Edit Price entries, and all is good.
    Always good to check any stock share or pricing changes downloaded from brokerages.
    Where did you see the spurious entries that you deleted?  After manually entering a 4:1 split and deleting my brokerage's Add Shares, I'm seeing an incorrect daily gain in price in Quicken's Portfolio Value screen and my previous day's NVIDIA market price are entirely wrong.  Yet, all looks fine in the account registers.

    EDIT:  Also, even though my NVIDIA market values are 1/4 of what they should be as I go back through time on that Portfolio Value page (it looks like it divided all my price history values by 4 (which I believe is correct), but didn't multiply my shares by 4 until the date of the split (which I believe is wrong)), when I bring up the NVIDIA Security Detail View and look at the market value graph, it's correct.
    Problem 1:  I believe Daily Gain improperly computes using only current shares, yesterday's price, and today's price.  It makes no adjustment for a splits, new acquisitions, or similar changes.  (Have not confirmed that today; only my recollection.)

    Problem 2:  I believe the 'current' prices and the historical prices sourced through Quicken (not from your brokerage) come from different sources and some (5-day current info) may be adjusted for the split.  If you have historical prices for the last couple of days already in place, newly downloaded prices may not override those in place values.  If your current price updates are backfilling in for the last few days, those prices may be adjusted for today's split.  For Quicken's purposes, that adjustment is improper.  The historical prices should build up toward the $750 range on 7/19/21, and then drop to 1/4 of that on the 20th which is when your StkSplt transaction gets entered.

    Problem 3:  At some time, the historical price source may want to download a split dated a few days before 7/20.  I believe that reflects a difference between trade dates and settlement dates.

    Problem 4:  Brokerages screw this up regularly by offering Add Shares transactions when the StkSplt transaction is the appropriate tool.  Do not use or accept the Add Shares approach.  Your cost basis will be screwed up.    

    A check I make is to use the Security Detail View, Price History graph and toggle the Split Adjust checkbox.  With that box checked, the price history graph should be consistent.  With that box unchecked, there should be a major drop in the graph as of the date of the split.      
  • isonclubikin
    isonclubikin Member ✭✭✭
    Looking more closely at my Price History, it looks like they "adjusted" their quotes for the split way back on the 14th.  I'm going to delete those and replace them with actual values and see what happens.
  • tivolo
    tivolo Member ✭✭
    I've had stock splits in the past and it seems every time that the share price that gets downloaded from Quicken reflects the split price several days before the actual split occurs. As a result, I always end up having to delete and re-enter the correct prices for the handful of pre-split days to make my price history accurate (and so Quicken doesn't report my stock had a 75% loss one day and a 4x gain a few days later). I then hold my breath hoping they don't overwrite what I entered in a subsequent download...
  • tivolo
    tivolo Member ✭✭
    > @q_lurker said:
    > Problem 1:  I believe Daily Gain improperly computes using only current shares, yesterday's price, and today's price.  It makes no adjustment for a splits, new acquisitions, or similar changes.  (Have not confirmed that today; only my recollection.)
    >

    It does look like the way they compute the "Day Gain/Loss" column has some issues. In particular, when I look at NVDA at the individual security level, the Day Gain/Loss is correctly reflecting the split (after I manually corrected yesterday's price to be a pre-split price).

    But, at the account level, the computation of "Day Gain/Loss" is WAY off. I would have assumed that Quicken would just sum of the gain/loss values of the individual securities in the account. But somehow it's showing a massive loss for today (far more than my entire NVDA position is worth) despite the fact the account actually had a large gain.

    Interestingly, the "Totals" row at the very bottom of the Investing grid, which aggregates the "Day Gain/Loss" column over all investment accounts, seems to be correct. Again, I would have expected this just to be the sum of the account-level totals, and thus expect it to reflect whatever bad value I'm seeing for the account holding NVDA shares. But it seems they actually calculate this separately as well (and accurately handle the split)!
  • isonclubikin
    isonclubikin Member ✭✭✭
    Today, it looks like my brokerage did an Add Shares for the partial shares resulting from the split (the number seems right).  I'm assuming they did that instead of doing a cash-in-lieu thing is because I'm having dividends reinvested.  Regardless, I'm pretty sure an Add Shares is not the correct action for that.  But, since the shares are actually covered in the 4:1 split I manually entered, I guess I'll just delete their transaction entirely.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    @isonclubikin if the downloaded transaction doesn’t fit you situation, delete it. 
Sign In or Register to comment.