How to list a stock held in both registered RRSP and unregistered accounts

Lakegal

Hello,

I have the same stock in my RRSP (tax free dividends) and in my unregistered account (taxable dividends). How can I list the stock twice in the securities list with one difference - the tick box for Tax: this security is tax exempt is ticked for one but not the other. Does anybody know how I can do this?

Thanks for any advice you can give.

Jon

The security itself is not inherently tax free so the box should not be checked. (In the US I would only check that box for something like a municipal bond, which would be both federal & state tax free in any account.) 

Instead, the account type should indicate that the dividends within it are tax free. I tried just now setting up an RRSP account and added a stock dividend transaction to it, and that dividend did not show up on the tax report. Is that not happening for you?

Lakegal

In Canada, Investment income in a registered account is tax free. In an unregistered investment account, investment income is taxable. So I can hold the same stock in two different accounts - one whose investment income is taxable and one whose investment income is not taxable.

If I tick the tax free box, my tax report does not report the dividend income earned in the non-registered account. If I untick the box, dividend income from my tax free account is included and shown as taxable.

In the "old" days, I could name the security slightly differently to accomplish my task but I used to also have to manually enter my history. Now a days, with all the automation, I can't change the name if I want it to pick up the price history.

The Canadian Mac version is not as robust as the Windows version. There are so many things I can't do and I'm having to do workarounds a lot just to track my investments properly for tax purpose ... which is why I am tracking the investments ... for tax purposes.

The only solution I can come up with is to change the security name slightly in one of the accounts then every month go in and manually enter the price history. This feels like a step backwards but if it's what I need to do to make sure I don't overpay or underpay taxes, then I guess that's what I have to do.

Lakegal

I should also mention, that in Canada, if you sell a stock in a registered investment account, it is not taxable either ... i.e. it does not attract capital gains or losses.So for Canadian tax purposes, the security is a tax free investment if it is held in a registered investment account.

Jon

Lakegal said:

In Canada, Investment income in a registered account is tax free. In an unregistered investment account, investment income is taxable. So I can hold the same stock in two different accounts - one whose investment income is taxable and one whose investment income is not taxable.

The same is true in the US - if I have investment income or capital gains in an IRA or 401K they are not taxed, but the same income or gains in a regular brokerage account would be taxable. Quicken handles this appropriately if I set up those accounts with the correct account type - it knows that what happens inside an IRA or 401K is not taxable, so it not report those transactions as being taxable when they occur inside those accounts. 

I see for Canadian users there are a lot of account types for investment accounts that I don't recognize - are none of those appropriate for your registered account?

Lakegal

JOn,

Our RRSP is similar to your IRA and our TFSA is similar to your Roth IRA.

I have both a registered account and an unregistered account setup in Quicken. That is not the problem. The problem is I am holding the same security in both accounts - i.e. I purchased shares for the RRSP and purchased shares in the unregistered. Quicken's security list will not allow me to list the security twice so I can record the income correctly.

I think I have figured out a work around (tired of having to do workarounds) - I will record the income from the unregistered as a deposit instead of dividend income. That way I can record the income so it will show up on the tax report. Fingers crossed.

Stephen Fisher

I have a similar problem. I often have several securities issued by the same company. Say common stock, a preferred share and a debenture.  Even though these each trade with their own symbol I cannot get past the "New Security" screen.  If I try to enter the preferred share I get the error message that this security already exists and cannot enter it. It is like the problem above because in both cases one cannot create the needed variant of the original entry. I have not figured out a viable workaround. 

Lakegal

Stephen,

My work around is not ideal but I still get the tax schedule to report the information I need. Once I get the stock in, I am no longer using the "investing" actions (for income & expense but still use buy and sell actions) recording income/expenses through the Payment/Deposit feature so I can setup taxable income and tax free income.

If you enter it in the security symbol instead of the name, then you should have no problem adding in common and preferred from the same company as they are different symbols. Have you tried that?

Stephen Fisher

I’m not sure I completely understand. My problem  was not identical to the original question. I’m not concerned about taxable vs non taxable and I am not concerned about what the text schedule reports. You write “once I get the stock in” - my issue is I can’t get the stock in. 

 I use Quicken to track my investments and I do have trouble getting the securities listed when there are several different securities from the same corporation. But of course the worst for Canadians is the inability to Calculate our capital gains according to Canadian law; being forced to do it manually. 

Lakegal

Stephen,

Yes I get that. But each security has a separate symbol ... yes? If when setting up the security you type in the symbol instead of the descriptive name, then it will pull up that security for you to add. Does that make sense?

Stephen Fisher

You're right.  In the newer versions that problem has gone away because they now lay out all the possible preferreds with their symbols. Maybe a few debentures missing but otherwise completely functional.  My brain was going back to a few years ago where the possibilities were not listed to be clicked on.  at that time if you had the company name once, that blocked all the other securities for that company.  That is fixed now and I do apologize.  
Still I wish you could calculate the CapGains by average price instead of FIFO or LIFO. 

My apologies and thanks for your help

Lakegal

Stephen,

I agree as CRA specifies using average cost of ACB for calculating capital gains.