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FAQ Why do transfers show up in the category list even though I hid the account?

Chris_QPW

People seem to feel that if they select "Hide in Transaction Entry Lists" (which is also what Close account does) in the Manage Hidden Accounts list or in the Display Options tab, that the account should no longer appear in the "Transfers", but it doesn't work that way or one might say it is inconsistent, because it doesn't something different in different data files.

The fundamental reason why this isn't true is because transfers aren't accounts.

So, the next question is then what are they? Well, that is just it, they hold a nebulous place in Quicken. They show up in the category filed in the registry and on the Category list.

They reused this field for something that can't happen at the same time, you can't categorize a transfer.

This is all well and good, but then they didn't follow through with this idea when it came to hiding it in list.

If you go to the Category list, you will notice that the transfers are on that list, but the "hide" check box is greyed out. This is the logical place for the hiding of transfers, but they didn't implement that way. This is what I feel they should change.

So, what is it doing right now?

People tend to associate transfers with accounts, and so think/push for the idea that if they hide an account the transfer should also be hidden. Here is where you can see the inconsistent treatment of this by the Quicken developers over the years, and what I believe are bugs.

In some data files no transfers are hidden no matter what you select. In others they are hidden when you select "Hide in Transaction Entry Lists" (but even this isn't "correct"). What separates the two different behaviors/data files? No one knows for sure, but it has sort of been assumed that "old data files" have the behavior that you can never hide them, and new data files have the other behavior.

But you notice I said that that second behavior isn't correct either?

It isn't for two reasons. It is inconsistent with the fact that Transfers appear with categories, not accounts, but even more to the point can be shown in this dialog.

Once would expect that by selecting the "Show hidden categories" the Transfers that are hidden would appear too in the data files that are hiding them. This isn't the case. So, this behavior isn't even consistent.

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Comments

[Deleted User]

@Chris_QPW none of my closed accounts show up in the Transfers category list. That is because all of my accounts were recently set up. If you set up a new account and then close it, it will not show up in the list. It seems like if you close an older account (or an account that's been around for a while), it will still show up in the list.

Chris_QPW

I have setup numerous accounts since this was discovered that some "new people" had the opposite behavior like you have.

It was only a guess that it was because of a "new data file". In reality no one knows why the behavior is different for different people.

What we all can agree on it is wrong in all cases (doesn't behave in a consistent manner and doesn't give the user the ability to hid/show transfers when they should be able to do those operations).

[Deleted User]

@Chris_QPW there might be another interesting reason why none of my closed accounts show up in the Transfers category list. I do not use linked transfers. I have no transaction in my data file with a linked transfer as a category.

Chris_QPW

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20433303#Comment_20433303

Well then by definition, you don’t have transfers, as defined by what quicken defines as a transfer.

[Deleted User]

I just did an experiment - I added linked transfers to several closed accounts, and they still don't show in the Transfer category list. So I doubt that it has to do with whether or not I have transfers. I still have a strong feeling it has to do whether the closed account was created before or after a programming change in Quicken. I have noticed other account changes that are not retroactive and only apply to new accounts so if this was the case, it wouldn't surprise me. In thinking about it a little more, it could be also dependent on when the data file was created.

Chris_QPW

I will give it a try when I get home. Normally I would never close an account because you can’t reopen them in Quicken windows, which is another flaw in Quicken windows.

Frankly, I don’t really care which way it behaves, it doesn’t really impact me, but more of the point is inconsistent and is wrong and should be fixed. And it should be fixed in the way I suggested they treat transfers as categories. They should be hidden as categories, not accounts.

Chris_QPW

Old data file:

New data file:

Note not closed, just Hide in Transaction Entry Lists is selected:

Checking not shown but doesn't show if I select "Show hidden categories".

So, does closing the account change the behavior?

No!

[Deleted User]

@Chris_QPW from your screen prints, I can summarize that

In an "old" data file, closed or hidden accounts will always show in the Transfer category list and there is no way for the user to remove them from the list.

In a new data file, whether or not the account shows on the Transfer category list is controlled by "Hide in Transaction Entry Lists". It doesn't make a difference if the account is closed or not.

But if the account is closed then the "Hide in Transaction Entry Lists" defaults to checked and cannot be changed. Which means the closed account will never show on the Transfer category list.

I think the only potential issue would be that the "Show hidden categories" doesn't "unhide" the "hidden" account in the Transfer category list.

The determining factor in whether or not the accounts can be hidden or suppressed from the Transfer category list, is whether it's an "old" or "new" data file.

I hope I have this correct. It clearly explains why users are having different experiences with closed and hidden accounts.