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R60.14 or lower. Show ENDING balance in account bar now considers future "Transfers" ?

Steve Long Time User

Maybe I never noticed it before (low probability) but today 11/30, my brokerage account ending balance shows an added in future scheduled account Transfer dated 12/5 (from my checking account to my brokerage account) into the ending balance, as if I had actually entered the transfer from my Bill, Income & Transfers stack already. Of course I have not entered it, but the account behaves as if I did. I verified this by changing the amount of the transfer to zero in the current instance, and watched the account revert to the actual balance expected. Restoring the amount brings the problem back showing an incorrect balance, and simply entering the transfer instance doesn't affect the balance twice, but at least I know where the balance came from.

BTW: If I simply change Show ENDING balance to Show Current balance, it works correctly and does not consider the transfer. For various other useful reasons, I keep Show Ending Balance.

I could understand it doing this hidden transaction if I had entered the transfer and it could be seen in the register. That would eliminate the time I had to spend tracking down why the balance of the account was off. But since the transfer was dated nearly a week out, and was not actually posted to the account, I thought it shouldn't have even considered it.

Something changed recently. Not sure when. This was the first time I noticed this behavior.

My backup R59.35 shows similarly but I did not verify as above with this version. Only checked it displayed similarly without the transfer.

Quicken Classic B & P. < = R60.14

Win-10 Pro 22H2 Fully updated.

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Accepted answers

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your reply,

Now that I know where to look (the account sidebar), I can replicate what you're seeing. The values below the register in the account itself aren't impacted, but the value on the account sidebar factors in the reminder. I forwarded this issue to the proper channels to be further investigated. In the meantime, if you would like to contribute to the investigation, please navigate to Help > Report a problem and submit a problem report with log files attached.

While you will not receive a response through this submission, these reports will help our teams in further investigating the issue. The more problem reports we receive, the better.

We apologize for any inconvenience!

Thank you.

(CTP-11624)

All comments

Quicken Kristina

Hello @Steve Long Time User,

To troubleshoot this issue, let's start by checking the most likely cause of this issue:

Near the upper right of your account register, there is a clock icon.

Click on that icon and you should see a dropdown.

Is any value other than "Don't show reminders" selected? If so, then your reminders that are due within the specified timeframe will show in your register (with a clock icon to indicate it's a reminder) and the Ending Balance will take it into account. You can select "Don't show reminders" to prevent this from happening.

Please let me know how it goes!

Steve Long Time User

Hi @Quicnen Kristina,

Thank you for taking a look at this issue.

In the source banking account, there exists such, a clock icon, and the setting is "Don't show reminders".

Destination "Investing" registers have no such equivalent icon. What does exist there is a Bill and Income Reminders (#Due)

This shows nothing due but is taking the transfer into account (it should not). However, even if it did show something due (I've seen that in other banking registers), I would not expect that to actually affect the Ending Balance until it is ENTERED into the register (I do this every month), postdated. This prevents the blind and difficult to trace problem(s). Transparency is best I believe.

I would argue this is not a desirable feature. I certainly would object to leaving this persist in Quicken, even as you describe it.

Update: Bill and Income Reminders (1 Due) DID appear in the source banking register, but not in the destination Investing register.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your reply,

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Investment registers don't have the clock icon, but they also display balance information differently, showing the Securities Value, Cash Balance, and Total Market Value.

Are you seeing the Ending Balance being impacted in the source checking account? If you're seeing an Ending Balance in your investment account, are you seeing it in the linked checking account (if that feature is turned on)?

Thank you!

Steve Long Time User

Hello @Quicken Kristina

Not true, your understanding is correct. Of course, you have to be in the register to see those 3 values at the bottom of the register. And in my case, those are correct even when this issue with the Account Bar value appears.

The source checking account ending balance (both in the account bar, and in the register) is NOT reflecting this anomaly.

Thus, I can affect the investing account ending balance on the account bar by editing the current instance UPCOMING in the Bills & Income reminders. Changing the instance Amount to ZERO corrects the Account Bar but changing it back to its original value also affects the Account Bar.

Another way to impact the Account Bar is to change the date of the transfer to a date beyond the current week. If I change the date of the transfer from this week Thursday 12/5 to next week Sunday 12/8 (or beyond), then the Account Bar does not reflect the anomaly.

Quicken is anticipating changes for the week pretending to be AI (LOL)!

Now aware of this problem, I'm looking at other upcoming transactions and found a 2nd anomaly involving an investing account, however the transaction only involves recording an expense deduction from the investment account balance (no transfer from a bank account). The same problem occurs where the Account Bar shows the incorrect ending balance, the investing account shows the correct ending values, and changing either the value or the date of the reminder impacts the Account Bar display.

So once again, I suggest this "anticipation" for ending balance, along with NO entry in the register to show transparently what's going on, is a scarry encounter for your average Quicken User. Those unaware of this behind-the-scenes transactions will generate many support calls.

I believe this is non-compliant with general accounting practice.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your reply,

While you will not receive a response through this submission, these reports will help our teams in further investigating the issue. The more problem reports we receive, the better.

We apologize for any inconvenience!

Thank you.

(CTP-11624)

Steve Long Time User

Sorry, I thought we were on the same Account Bar (page) as only the account bar has this "Ending balance" feature (I think?).

Bottom Line: Any amount expressed in the Account Bar must be accompanied by an entry posted in the accounts register, otherwise it leads to errors and or confusion, plus time (yours and mine) to troubleshoot the issue.

Since you can now replicate the issue, it appears that this blog should be all that's needed for the developers to replicate and fix.

Thank you for taking the time to work on this issue Kristina, you pretty much nailed it down very quickly. Much appreciated.

pantz9

Seeing the same problem. I have a Reminder scheduled in an Investment Account and the amount is prematurely debited against the total in the Account bar. The Total Market Value of the account under the register is correct. The register is already set to Show Current Balance (rather than Show Ending Balance), so that's not the problem.

Is there a report submitted for this issue that I can track?

Running Quicken Classic Deluxe R60.15 on Windows 11 Home.

Steve Long Time User

@pantz9 "I would try to change Show Ending Balance to Show Current Balance, but I can't find that setting."

Easy breezy. Right click on the Account Bar Investment Account, select Show Current Balance.

joecg

Just updated to R60.20 HF3 and am now seeing this issue. I likely came from .15 but could have been .14.

Not certain if it is due to this update or the timing of the upcoming transfer.

Steve Long Time User

@joecg This issue goes back to at least R59.35 and is still a problem in R60.20.

IMO: The issue is non-conforming accounting practice and should get fixed. No balance should be impacted unless there is a posted item in the register. Otherwise, this is invisible (unless you know the issue exists) and difficult to locate. Hopefully the problem will be fixed and returned to its former normal operation in the last 20 years+ of Quicken.