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Can't make erroneous stock split go away

Paul Suchma

I had 13 shares of Sysmex until my April 2024 statement showed a 6 share distribution and cash distribution in lieu of a fractional share. If I enter these 2 items in Quicken all seems well. However now when ever I do an on-line update I get this:

If I accept this change I end up with 19.49999 shares instead of the 19 shown on my statement. I tried the de-select and click OK as suggested in this pop-up, but this "Stock Splits May be Missing" popup shows up whenever I do an on-line update for this account. I tried the Validate and Repair File routine, but that does not change the behavior. How do I make this problem go away?

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q_lurker

SSMXY underwent a 3-for-2 split effective 4/2/24. It should be entered that way in Quicken followed by a sale of the fractional share for the cash-in-lieu amount received.

Entering as a 3:2 or 1.5:1 should yield you 19.5 shares and I expect satisfy the 1:0.666667 split you are being offered. Either way, you’d sell the 0.5 or 0.499999 shares to get you to 19. There could be a residual fractional that might cause minor nuisances with the 0.66667 route so I’d use the more exact number.

Hope this helps

Paul Suchma

I accepted the way Quicken wants to show this as a split followed by a fractional share sale. This seems to make the annoying "Stock Splits May be Missing" popup go away. That said I wonder why Quicken does not support this as an integer share split and a cash distribution in lieu of a fractional share as this seems to be a fairly common transaction.

q_lurker

I wonder why Quicken does not support this as an integer share split and a cash distribution in lieu of a fractional share …

Because the cash-in-lieu actually is a sale of that fractional share with attendant potential capital gain tax ramifications. It is not a 19-for-13 split. If you had 13 shares in this account and 14 in another, they both need to see a 3:2 split.

Now I suppose they could have a ‘wizard’-type pop up that would prompt you for the ending shares and CIL amount to create the two transactions. But there are still multiple account and dating issues to keep straight.

Jim_Harman

From your original post, it sounds like what was downloaded was an Added transaction for 6 shares and cash worth 0.5 share rather than a StkSplit (producing 19.5 shares) followed by a Sell of 0.5 shares.

If that is the case, you should delete the Added and the cash, accept the StkSplit, and enter a Sell for 0.5 share after the StkSplit, producing the cash that you received.

Paul Suchma

The pop-up showed as in my original post, i.e., Download Data "1:0.666667 on 4/2/2024" and Replace "19:13 on 4/3/2024"). I can't say what exactly the 1:0.666667 is supposed to represent although is does equal the inverse of the 3 for 2 split number. It's also how the transaction with the yet-to-be-removed fractional share shows up in Quicken after it's downloaded in an account update .

The on-line transactions as well as the paper statement both show a Distribution of 6 shares followed a couple of days later by Cash in Lieu of Shares transaction for $8.28. As I said I made this work by letting Quicken do its 1 for 0.666667 split and then enter a sale of the fractional share to get rid of the 0.49999 excess shares.

I will look at this more closely next time I have a split that involve a CIL amount

q_lurker

As further clarification, when you download quotes (security prices) from within Quicken, either current prices or historical prices, the downloaded data includes information about stock splits, in a form chosen by the quotes provider. That information filters into the price history data for the security so that price graphs can be properly adjusted for changes due to stock splits. In your case for this security, the form was 1:0.666667. In other cases, one might find that sent as 3:2 or 1.5:1, both of which would be slightly more precise.

When Quicken sees that downloaded split data, it tries to match it up with any stock split transaction in your transaction records leading to the comparison of the 1:0.666667 to the 19:13 that you originally entered.

In my opinion, any stock split event should be examined closely enough to be sure the investor's Quicken records properly align with the real world events.

Paul Suchma

I see, so there are different entities providing some of the download information vs the information used in statements. All the more reason for a careful examination.

[Deleted User]

@Paul Suchma Quicken has never been able to download split information correctly. From my own experience, they always need to be changed to reflect what really happened at your brokerage. One difficulty is trying to get the split to work out mathematically without rounding issues. Another is adjusting the date of the split to work properly with the pricing change.

Another thing you might run into is if you run investment transactions reports that include the split transaction, you will always need to adjust that split for the correct number of shares. What it shows initially is some nonsensical number.

Glaird

Beware of Quicken transactions. I notice that known serious problems quickly get closed with "do nothing" or worse; "add serious errors to the DB" solutions/side effects. I not only had no say in the latest "update", I suddenly discovered my manual ledger (BTW, a manual ledger is one's ultimate defense w/IRS per their instructions), no longer corresponded to one single 3 to 1 split. Quicken's solution, just had a duplicate entry, along with double the number of shares.

When I finally had time, after dealing with hideous non-asked for updates to Parallels, to compare my Quicken stock accounts with my broker's "positions" display, I discovered the error. 2 hours later, with my very helpful broker support person, manually deleting entries, with no way to get back, since all backups from non-asked for Parallels updates, contained the same error, I just deleted the "stock split" double entries. Changed preference to not perform any backups at all. Closed Quicken. Then reopen it, to find my # of shares now matched my broker's and my manual ledger.

"It is a terrifying thing, to fall into the hands of junior programmers, that don't QA their work." (Loose paraphrase of statement in a religious document.)