QWin 2017 Premier: How to correct a brokerage download of a spin off that reduces the value of the

Peter BiddlePeter Biddle Member
edited October 2018 in Investing (Windows)
Q 2017 Premier

Comments

  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Well, how did you record it in the first place?  Can you post a snapshot of that transaction detail?

    AND, a spin-off DOES reduce the value of the original stock.  Say you had a whole pie, valued at $100.  You spin-off 1/3 of that pie, so what's left has a value of $66.67 and the spun off portion is valued at $33.33.  That the way things work.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor"
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    "How to correct a brokerage download ..."



    That depends on what the brokerage downloaded, but in principle, you should be able to delete those specific transactions related to the spinoff. You can then enter the correct transactions yourself. I generally do do not expect the brokerage to download correct transactions for those types of events.



    Option 2 is to restore a backup of your Quicken data and then re-downloaded not automatically entering the downloaded transactions and opting to delete the improper transactions.
  • Peter BiddlePeter Biddle Member
    edited May 2018
    I tried option 2 several times after deleting the downloaded data, but each time Q told me that the new stock name was already in use.  I even edited the file for this name and could find it nowhere.
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    I tried option 2 several times after deleting the downloaded data, but each time Q told me that the new stock name was already in use.  I even edited the file for this name and could find it nowhere.

    I tried option 2 several times after deleting the downloaded data... 
    I don't think we communicated clearly.  Restoring a Quicken back made before the errant download from the brokerage would not tie in with deleting the errant transactions.  Your followup comment about name already in use suggests that you deleted the problematic transactions and then tried another download from the brokerage.  That won't work adequately and could produce the error message you cited.  Once you have downloaded transactions, the program will not accept those same transactions downloaded a second time.  A security created as part of that initial download is not deleted just because the transactions were deleted.

    If you restore a Quicken backup file from before the original download, for all intents and purposes, the next download is the first of that data to that (restored) data file.  The spunoff company should not exist in that restored-from-backup file.    

    There are other circumstances where the name already in use can develop, but those are somewhat rare occurrences.  If you name the companies involved, someone might be able to better comment on the situation.    
  • Peter BiddlePeter Biddle Member
    edited May 2017

    I tried option 2 several times after deleting the downloaded data, but each time Q told me that the new stock name was already in use.  I even edited the file for this name and could find it nowhere.

    I never attempted another download. I only deleted the associated initial transactions from file. and then used the transaction edit to input a spin off. This action gave me the stock name already in use error. If I knew how to attach a picture to this comment, I could show the result of the 2/1/2017 spin off of LOGMEIN from CITRIX.
  • Peter BiddlePeter Biddle Member
    edited May 2017

    Well, how did you record it in the first place?  Can you post a snapshot of that transaction detail?

    AND, a spin-off DOES reduce the value of the original stock.  Say you had a whole pie, valued at $100.  You spin-off 1/3 of that pie, so what's left has a value of $66.67 and the spun off portion is valued at $33.33.  That the way things work.

    I took a snip of both current positions but I don't know how to post them.
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    Well, how did you record it in the first place?  Can you post a snapshot of that transaction detail?

    AND, a spin-off DOES reduce the value of the original stock.  Say you had a whole pie, valued at $100.  You spin-off 1/3 of that pie, so what's left has a value of $66.67 and the spun off portion is valued at $33.33.  That the way things work.

    To insert them into these replies, use the Camera (NOT movie camera) icon below.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor"
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    I tried option 2 several times after deleting the downloaded data, but each time Q told me that the new stock name was already in use.  I even edited the file for this name and could find it nowhere.

    My preferred methodology for entering that type of spinoff manually is to use Remove Shares and Add Shares transactions.  

    This particular case is both a spinoff and a merger, in that Citrix is spinning off its Goto family and then that spinoff is immediately merging with the already existing LogMein company.  Quicken assumes in a spinoff, the new company is a new company and not pre-existing in the datafile.  In you case, LOGM might have already existed because you owned shares of it or had it on a watch list, or because it was created by the download from the brokerage and you did not delete the security as you deleted the transactions.  

    In this case, I would:
    1. Enter a Remove Shares transaction for all shares of Citrix
    2. (assuming one lot of Citrix)  Enter an Add Shares transaction for the same number of shares with the 2/1/17 transaction date, the original acquisition date, and about 79.5% of the original cost basis.  The 79.5% value comes from costbasis.com which I have found to be reliable; you may need to use a slightly different percentage to correspond to your brokerage data or other applicable sources.
    3. (still assuming one lot of Citrix)  Enter an Add Shares for 0.1718 shares of LOGM for every share of Citrix you had owned.  Use the same dates as in step 2 and about 20.5% of your original cost basis with the same caveat applicable for the actual percentage.
    4. If you had multiple lots of Citrix, repeat steps 2 and 3 for each lot - different acquisition dates and different cost basis values with the same set of distribution percentages.
    5. After all lots accounted for, enter a Sell Shares of LOGM for any resulting fractional shares.  Your total selling price for those shares is the cash-in-lieu amount you received.  
    At this point, you should now have the original number of Citrix shares with about 79.5% of their original cost basis, and about 17% as many LOGM shares with those shares having about 20.5% of the original Citrix cost basis.  Those values should all correspond to your brokerage data (assuming they got it right).    

    This method (IMO) provides a more accurate presentation of historical transactions.  It will bypass the fact that LOGM already exists in your current datafile.

    HTH 
      
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