IRA Management Fee Recording Q for MAC
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Chris Mead
Member ✭✭✭
:: I am working my 2022 budget now. Quicken copies over the 2021 income and expenses by category. So far, so good.
:: As I was doing so, I found a rather substantial amount come into the category, "Bank Fee" under "Fees and Charges". This was not a budgeted category in 2021 so I was rather blind to it (I've complained about this before by the way...separate subject.) It turns out that the cost was downloaded from by financial management company (TD Ameritrade) and it is actually a monthly cost for them to manage the IRA. It is taken out pre-TAX from the IRA and I never have to sell shares or do anything to account for it. It's just a load cost.
:: So I'm asking what is the right way to handle the budget? From an actual cash perspective (balancing and reconciliation), Quicken handles it perfectly. But for budgeting, I don't think I should include this in the budget as an expense as it doesn't impact income. The net would be incorrect. Perhaps leaving it hidden is the best idea but that sounds klugey.
:: As I was doing so, I found a rather substantial amount come into the category, "Bank Fee" under "Fees and Charges". This was not a budgeted category in 2021 so I was rather blind to it (I've complained about this before by the way...separate subject.) It turns out that the cost was downloaded from by financial management company (TD Ameritrade) and it is actually a monthly cost for them to manage the IRA. It is taken out pre-TAX from the IRA and I never have to sell shares or do anything to account for it. It's just a load cost.
:: So I'm asking what is the right way to handle the budget? From an actual cash perspective (balancing and reconciliation), Quicken handles it perfectly. But for budgeting, I don't think I should include this in the budget as an expense as it doesn't impact income. The net would be incorrect. Perhaps leaving it hidden is the best idea but that sounds klugey.
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Best Answer
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You want to look at your portfolio and security performance? In Quicken Mac from the same Portfolio view with the graph that it's my other post, use the Portfolio Value selection from the dropdown and get all your metrics right there.
It's not actually in the graph broken down by security or account...but really, your graph shows me nothing but a bunch of points in a line/bar graph and pretty much is a mish mash as lines intersect all over the place. I find it hard to follow and hard to read and even harder to interpret.
Quicken Mac gives me the actual numbers and percentages below that graph. And I can see my entire portfolio, my retirement or brokerage accounts or each individual account by security, if I need to.
Quicken...both Windows and Mac especially, has never been good at predicting the future. Even if it did, I would never use it more than a basic guide.
In Quicken Windows, the Lifetime Planner, which I hope an updated version will eventually be incorporated into Quicken Mac, is so flawed its now almost useless. It hasn't been updated in years for the new RMD rules (72 instead of 70 1/2), it has no accounting for Roth IRA withdrawals and has no way for you to tell it which moneys will be withdrawn first outside of the way Quicken calculates it. There are a lot of other issues with it which I won't enumerate here.
I've actually found another freeware that I rely more on for retirement planning...but I have to import all my data manually.
As to Vanguard's retirement planning, you've got to be kidding. I haven't found any of theirs to be any great shakes. If you know where I should look, let me know. I have a number of annuities and almost all planning is awful at taking those into account.
Personally, I've set up my own Numbers spreadsheet with all my accounts and with the "outside" retirement planner I can coarsely predict my future. You're doing the same with your Excel worksheets.
I'm at the point in my life (already retired for a few years) where I just need to know my income stream, when I need to take that income stream and will it last me until I'm 110 (LOL!). Add in my approximate RMD starting at 72 and the income tax ramifications and I'm pretty good to go.
But I don't really think that's something that Quicken (either version) is prepared to do...even in future updates.1
Answers
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It may not be affecting your disposable income, but it is affecting the growth and balance of your investment accounts. I would include this as an "investment expense," the same place I would account for any fees or costs for investment advice. Since I just use Quicken to account and report, and not budget, this may not be a real answer for you.1
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Thank you for your thoughtful response. But as you said, it doesn't really answer the question.
After thinking about this some more, I've come to realize that Quicken doesn't offer a solution. The root cause of this is its poorly featured investment planning process. One cannot budget growth of investments and when we think about this in context of all the potential customers with retirement fund planning needs, the lack of planning investments is a glaring omission. With a planning process, one would predict transaction fees, future sales and purchases and basic growth. With such a plan, people would make better choices.
An example of this omission is basic charting. I've reverted to using Excel to track (graph) my investments like the one below. As Quicken hasn't graduated to this advanced investment planning, one can't expect it to track investment load charges either.
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I don't find your graph any more revealing than the graph in the Investing > Portfolio selection...or the subgroup Brokerage or Retirement > Portfolio selection...or the individual account > Portfolio selection in Quicken Mac.
I can see my total Investing Portfolio ... or individual account Portfolio performance graph just as yours.
And although you claim that your graph allows for "planning", there is NO planning in your graph. It's all historical hindsight...the same that Quicken gives you.
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Hello Gary. Thank you for the response.
I'm certainly aware of the graph you show above and I use it daily. The major difference is that my graph shows all securities in the portfolio and one can compare at a glance their relative performance.
I agree with you that both graphs are a look back. But what if Quicken gave the opportunity to provide a forward look for comparison? Either by security or the portfolio? Then mix in distribution planning (the 4% rule). From an accounting T-method perspective, both the distribution (one side) and the income (the other side) could be planned. This process is very similar to software provided by companies such as T Rowe Price or Vanguard when one is estimating one's retirement possibilities.
I just think that Quicken is leaving a lot on the table for planning. The budget process is one of them. For example, just as we can "close" accounts, credit cards, etc., so should we be able to close categories.
Thanks for the opportunity of this discussion. I welcome your counter!
Chris0 -
You want to look at your portfolio and security performance? In Quicken Mac from the same Portfolio view with the graph that it's my other post, use the Portfolio Value selection from the dropdown and get all your metrics right there.
It's not actually in the graph broken down by security or account...but really, your graph shows me nothing but a bunch of points in a line/bar graph and pretty much is a mish mash as lines intersect all over the place. I find it hard to follow and hard to read and even harder to interpret.
Quicken Mac gives me the actual numbers and percentages below that graph. And I can see my entire portfolio, my retirement or brokerage accounts or each individual account by security, if I need to.
Quicken...both Windows and Mac especially, has never been good at predicting the future. Even if it did, I would never use it more than a basic guide.
In Quicken Windows, the Lifetime Planner, which I hope an updated version will eventually be incorporated into Quicken Mac, is so flawed its now almost useless. It hasn't been updated in years for the new RMD rules (72 instead of 70 1/2), it has no accounting for Roth IRA withdrawals and has no way for you to tell it which moneys will be withdrawn first outside of the way Quicken calculates it. There are a lot of other issues with it which I won't enumerate here.
I've actually found another freeware that I rely more on for retirement planning...but I have to import all my data manually.
As to Vanguard's retirement planning, you've got to be kidding. I haven't found any of theirs to be any great shakes. If you know where I should look, let me know. I have a number of annuities and almost all planning is awful at taking those into account.
Personally, I've set up my own Numbers spreadsheet with all my accounts and with the "outside" retirement planner I can coarsely predict my future. You're doing the same with your Excel worksheets.
I'm at the point in my life (already retired for a few years) where I just need to know my income stream, when I need to take that income stream and will it last me until I'm 110 (LOL!). Add in my approximate RMD starting at 72 and the income tax ramifications and I'm pretty good to go.
But I don't really think that's something that Quicken (either version) is prepared to do...even in future updates.1
This discussion has been closed.