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Investment Account value in Net Worth repot is not the same as current balance

me
me Member ✭✭
edited January 2019 in Investing (Windows)
Quicken Premier 2017, Windows 10.



I have a few investment accounts that have zero balances because they have no cash and no assets. They are showing in my net worth reports with non-zero balances.



I have run validate (and super validate) and the results are pretty clean.



Obviously I can hide the account to on the report but it makes me nervous that there are other mistakes I am not noticing. (I did check all other accounts and they are currently correct. )



Has anyone else seen this behavior?

Comments

  • Reed Welch
    Reed Welch Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    I have seen this type of problem in Q2014, with both Portfolio Balances and Net Worth reports. On one investment account the net worth report is reporting a value that is >10% less than the Portfolio Value.
    And I have other investment accounts that don't have this problem, and the accounts are with one brokerage.
    In the past I have used the Net Worth report for multiple needs, but now find it very unreliable. It is not clear to me that Quicken is doing anything to correct this issue.
  • me
    me Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    I've found in some of these cases there are bad transactions that have to be deleted, but I have not been able to identify the transactions in every case.  Unfortunately, the standard validate tools don't deal with this at all and it is somewhat guess work to figure out which are the bad transactions.  I would think Quicken would have a better diagnostic tool for this. 
  • me
    me Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    A quick update to this chain.  To better drill down, I have compared  

    Report:Net Worth (Account Details checked) against Account:Holdings.  

    This will show you the security that is not matching, or if the difference is just cash.  

    Using this I have been able to identify and correct nearly every security transaction (a few are down to fractions of a share that I think stem from splits).  I do have cash differences (always zero cash in account and some cash in Net Worth) that I have still been unable to correct.  
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    I have found a useful troubleshooting tool for this issue is to use Investing | Portfolio and try various dates in the date for the Portfolio to narrow down when the erroneous value crept in, then examine transacrions in the problem date range.


    Typically it turns out to be incorrect lot Identificafion on sales resulting in a particular lot being sold twice.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2016
    I have the same problem with Quicken 16 Home & Business.  A closed account with $0 Cash and no assets cannot be excluded from the Investment - Account Balances Report.  I too have run validate and deleted all placeholder entries and excluded the account from Quicken Reporting in the Account Edit tab.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited December 2016

    I have seen this type of problem in Q2014, with both Portfolio Balances and Net Worth reports. On one investment account the net worth report is reporting a value that is >10% less than the Portfolio Value.
    And I have other investment accounts that don't have this problem, and the accounts are with one brokerage.
    In the past I have used the Net Worth report for multiple needs, but now find it very unreliable. It is not clear to me that Quicken is doing anything to correct this issue.

    Thanks -- I have no confidence in the accuracy of this report.  Unfortunate because it is such a valuable tool.
  • Reed Welch
    Reed Welch Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016

    I have seen this type of problem in Q2014, with both Portfolio Balances and Net Worth reports. On one investment account the net worth report is reporting a value that is >10% less than the Portfolio Value.
    And I have other investment accounts that don't have this problem, and the accounts are with one brokerage.
    In the past I have used the Net Worth report for multiple needs, but now find it very unreliable. It is not clear to me that Quicken is doing anything to correct this issue.

    I did get this sorted out after a month of pain and agony.
    Here is a link to the thread for the details; https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/net-worth-and-portfolio-values-dont-match

    My observation - it was a result of how Q handled spin offs in the past, and affected investment accounts with linked cash balances. 
    I tried to duplicate with a new test account and could not, so assuming Q updates may have been a factor, but no way to know for sure.
    Quality Financial Institutions provide excellent reliable reporting, so maybe best to use them as a baseline.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited December 2016
    My net worth report has account balances that are NOT the actual account balances. I found a few glitches and fixed them, but the IRA's are significantly off in value. The net worth over time report is a problem. And my closed accounts seem to be adding in cash balances. CRAZY. I have been working with Customer Service at third level now for another net worth problem - it is now -$50M coming from a stock option issue!
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    I am having a similar problem with two bonds. On the date that they are acquired, the portfolio value report shows the correct "shares" and Quote/Price (i.e., the purchase price since no other prices were entered for this date) but the extended balance equals zero. This is not the case with other bonds purchased on the same date. This behavior carries forward with odd results (e.g., a negative balance). I have checked the price history and everything seems to be OK. Any suggestions?
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    As a follow up to my prior question. I deleted one of the purchases and re-entered it. This time, the quantity was multiplied by 10 and the price divided by 10 (i.e., instead of 200 bonds at 109.563 it was 2,000 bond at 10.9563). The reports now show the correct value.
  • Joel Jakubson
    Joel Jakubson SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018

    I just found this in one of my files.   I have found a different cause.  In my case, there were shares entered via an Add Shares (not Bought) to a new account and sold the same day.  In my transaction register, the shares added were entered AFTER the shares sold.  This is probably because I :

    1. downloaded the new account first

    2. did a Shares Transferred between accounts that causes the Added transactions to be entered. 

    3. deleted the duplicate Add transactions that were downloaded in step 1

    I fixed the problem by manually changing the date on the Add Shares transactions to the day before the Sold transactions.  Now the Net Worth and Account Balances reports are correct.

    I'm no genius, but sure seems like a bug to me.

    Quicken 2016 H&B, R14, Build 25.1.14.5, Windows 7 64 bit

    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017

    I just found this in one of my files.   I have found a different cause.  In my case, there were shares entered via an Add Shares (not Bought) to a new account and sold the same day.  In my transaction register, the shares added were entered AFTER the shares sold.  This is probably because I :

    1. downloaded the new account first

    2. did a Shares Transferred between accounts that causes the Added transactions to be entered. 

    3. deleted the duplicate Add transactions that were downloaded in step 1

    I fixed the problem by manually changing the date on the Add Shares transactions to the day before the Sold transactions.  Now the Net Worth and Account Balances reports are correct.

    I'm no genius, but sure seems like a bug to me.

    Quicken 2016 H&B, R14, Build 25.1.14.5, Windows 7 64 bit

    Selling the shares before they were added causing weird results is a bug?
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Joel Jakubson
    Joel Jakubson SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017

    I just found this in one of my files.   I have found a different cause.  In my case, there were shares entered via an Add Shares (not Bought) to a new account and sold the same day.  In my transaction register, the shares added were entered AFTER the shares sold.  This is probably because I :

    1. downloaded the new account first

    2. did a Shares Transferred between accounts that causes the Added transactions to be entered. 

    3. deleted the duplicate Add transactions that were downloaded in step 1

    I fixed the problem by manually changing the date on the Add Shares transactions to the day before the Sold transactions.  Now the Net Worth and Account Balances reports are correct.

    I'm no genius, but sure seems like a bug to me.

    Quicken 2016 H&B, R14, Build 25.1.14.5, Windows 7 64 bit

    It sure is. I can see if capital gains are wrong. I can see if performance reports are wrong. But account balances and net worth reports should value a position with zero shares at zero dollars no matter what. The register is correct. The reports are wrong.
    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited April 2018

    I just found this in one of my files.   I have found a different cause.  In my case, there were shares entered via an Add Shares (not Bought) to a new account and sold the same day.  In my transaction register, the shares added were entered AFTER the shares sold.  This is probably because I :

    1. downloaded the new account first

    2. did a Shares Transferred between accounts that causes the Added transactions to be entered. 

    3. deleted the duplicate Add transactions that were downloaded in step 1

    I fixed the problem by manually changing the date on the Add Shares transactions to the day before the Sold transactions.  Now the Net Worth and Account Balances reports are correct.

    I'm no genius, but sure seems like a bug to me.

    Quicken 2016 H&B, R14, Build 25.1.14.5, Windows 7 64 bit

    Q2018 Premier

    FWIW, I had accounts displaying a “securities value” and a “total
    market value” other than 0 (either a negative amount or a positive amount) in
    accounts with no assets – neither cash nor securities.

    History

    I brought 4 old accounts out of hibernation today because I
    wanted help double-checking cost basis calculations by having easy access to
    each account’s transaction register.

    By “out of hibernation” I mean I changed each account’s
    display options by unchecking:

    1. “Keep this account separate –
    account will be excluded from Quicken reports and features”

    2. “Hide in transaction entry lists”

    3. “Hide account name in account
    bar and account list”

    The false securities value/total market value changed Q2018’s
    calculation of my total investment account value and total net worth, but had
    no real impact that I could find (other than annoyance, irritation, and time waste while I
    figured this out).

    Each of these accounts predates my update to Q2018. I no
    longer use the accounts due to a brokerage change.

    When I finished my cost basis checks, I put each account
    back into hibernation and the minor impact went away. To help me write this
    post, I brought the accounts back; each now displays 0 securities value, 0 cash
    value, and 0 total market value.

    End History

    Go figure? At least I'll know where to look the next time I get a 2% increase in investments value on a day when the market is down 1%

  • Reed Welch
    Reed Welch Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    QM2017 is not a good tool to use for monitoring real time xactions. I have experienced many delayed transactions with QM2017, but they usually clear in a day of two. Not the optimal experience but it is what it is.
  • Quicken Sarah
    Quicken Sarah Administrator, Moderator mod
    edited July 2018
    Hello Everyone,

    Thank you for taking the time to report this issue.

    Our Development teams have been researching this behavior and have identified a bug with non-valid Reinvest Dividend or Reinvest Interest transactions with zero shares causing a discrepancy between the Net Worth report and the Portfolio view or value.

    A solution for these discrepancies has been found and estimated to be a part of the July release.  Please note, this date is an estimate and subject to change if any additional issues or problems are found during the testing phase.

    In the meantime, a workaround to solve these discrepancies is to delete the non-valid transactions.  These can be found by creating an Investment Transaction report filtered to show Reinvest Transactions only.

    I hope this information is helpful and please let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns.

    Thank you,

    Sarah
  • me
    me Member ✭✭
    edited June 2018
    Sarah:  I am a beta-tester and glad to check this on my data pre-release.  Rob
  • me
    me Member ✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Perhaps because of an update to Quicken, I have been able to solve this problem. First, I had to identify the problem transaction by using Net Worth and Holdings to identify the date the two of them diverge.  (I looked at Net Worth by Year, then Month, then Week to aid my search.)  Once I honed in on the date, I knew it was one of the very few transactions on that date.  Try re-accepting (editing then hitting enter) or deleting and reentering.  I don't remember exactly how I cleared each error (I had a few), but I was able to fix all of them.  Good luck all!
  • Quicken_Tyka
    Quicken_Tyka Moderator mod
    edited December 2018
    Hello Me,

    Thank you for taking the time to come back and follow up on this thread and let us know that it was resolved.

    -Quicken Tyka
    ~~~***~~~
This discussion has been closed.