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How do we account for the 11/1/16 Arconic distribution and name change for Alcoa?

Unknown
Unknown Member
edited December 2018 in Investing (Windows)
«1

Comments

  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Can you cite a reference for this? Also, what Quicken year version and operating system are you using?
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Unknown
    Unknown Alumni
    edited September 2017
    Hi Pete,

    I'm sorry of this has caused any confusion. To help us provide the most appropriate response, please let us know which Quicken product (QWin or QMac) and what version (2016, 2017, etc.) you are using. Also, are you using the US version of Quicken or Quicken Canada?

    Thanks,
    Dave
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2016
    Oh, sorry.  This is Quicken Home & Business 2015 in the US on WIndows 10.  
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2016
    I'm just asking what transactions I need to make, given a rather confusing spin-off.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Alumni
    edited September 2017
    Thanks for the clarification, Pete. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of experience working with investment transactions, so I'm going to defer to one of the super users, most of whom have a vast amount of experience with investments. Usually, they are pretty quick to respond, so hopefully you will hear from one of them today.

    Dave
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Here is the announcement on the corporate action:



    http://news.alcoa.com/press-release/c...
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2016
    Thanks for that, but no help for the details and how one should apply to Quicken transactions.  Not sure if I recategorized properly.
  • UKR
    UKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Pete,
    hang on. I'm just trying to figure that out myself.
    If you can, try not to download or accept downloaded transactions regarding this. It's tricky because of the name change from Alcoa (AA) to Arconic (ARNC) followed by a new Alcoa (AA) stock issue.
  • rlhite1990
    rlhite1990 Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Alcoa / Arconic Stock Spinoff or Separation; Rename to Arconic.


    I have Quicken Home and Business 2014 on Windows 7.  I have several lots of Alcoa stock acquired over several years in different accounts.

    I would like to know how other Users may have entered transactions on 11-1-2016 to separate existing holdings of Alcoa Inc. (the "ParentCo" stock symbol AA) into the renamed Arconic Inc. (with change of stock symbol to ARCN) and the newly formed Alcoa Upstream Corporation name change to "Alcoa Corporation" under the existing stock symbol AA where it appears holders of record on 10-20-2016 are receiving 3 sh for each 1 sh of the Parent Co previously owned.  How did you address the input sequence with regard to name changes, symbol changes, and spin-off entries?  How have you been able to ensure your cost basis in Quicken is correct?   
  • rlhite1990
    rlhite1990 Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Alcoa / Arconic Stock Spinoff or Separation; Rename to Arconic.


    I have Quicken Home and Business 2014 on Windows 7.  I have several lots of Alcoa stock acquired over several years in different accounts.

    I would like to know how other Users may have entered transactions on 11-1-2016 to separate existing holdings of Alcoa Inc. (the "ParentCo" stock symbol AA) into the renamed Arconic Inc. (with change of stock symbol to ARCN) and the newly formed Alcoa Upstream Corporation name change to "Alcoa Corporation" under the existing stock symbol AA where it appears holders of record on 10-20-2016 are receiving 3 sh for each 1 sh of the Parent Co previously owned.  How did you address the input sequence with regard to name changes, symbol changes, and spin-off entries?  How have you been able to ensure your cost basis in Quicken is correct?   
  • smfcpacfp
    smfcpacfp Member
    edited November 2016
    First I would handle the name change by clicking on the security name (Alcoa Inc.)  in the account where it exists and then under Security Details, chose Edit Security Details.   

    Regarding  the spinoff I will repeat what I said earlier regarding a spin off by Yum! Brands today:

    What to do in Quicken?

    If you download transactions from your broker, it will ask you if you want to add a transaction for the new shares.  I recommend that you delete the transaction.  Instead go to the account and click on Enter Transaction

    Choose Corporate Securities Spin-off

    You need to fill in 5 boxes, and the description is a bit confusing, in my opinion.  I will show you what I would do in your case:

    Security Name: Arconic Inc (a drop down box)

    New Company: Alcoa Corporation

    New Shares Issued: 3 (this is the ratio of new to old shares.  In your case 3 new for 1 old.)

    Cost per old share: $?  (Price of old company's share immediately after spin off)

    Cost per new share: $?  (Price of new company's share immediately after spin off)

    After you complete the transaction, which may take your computer a while if you have alot of purchase lots, you will probably need to edit the security details for the new stock (symbol, etc).  y

  • UKR
    UKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Everybody,
    I could be terribly wrong about this. Here's what I've done.
    First, I have not downloaded and/or not accepted any downloaded transactions from the brokerage. IMHO, whatever you get from the broker tends to just muddle the waters.
    If you have accepted transactions, delete them.

    The transactions which I entered in my account regarding the Alcoa Inc to Arconic Inc and (new) Alcoa Corp change are:
    • 10/06/16 - Alcoa Inc reverse split 1 for 3.
    • 10/06/16 - Broker charged mandatory reorg fee. They're fast with that.
    • 10/18/16 - finally Cash in Lieu for fractional shares received.
      After that, I now own 101 shares Alcoa Inc (AA).
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Alcoa Inc Corporate Name Change transaction to Arconic Inc. Change ticker from AA to ARNC and retained price history from old AA
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Corporate Spinoff transaction making a few assumptions along the way:
      Old security name: "Arconic Inc"
      New Company: "Alcoa Corp (after 11/1/16)"
      New shares issued: 0.33333    <- 1 for 3, as close as I can make it
      Cost per old share: 23             <- I'm really just guessing here, but I must enter a value
      Cost per new share: 23            <- ditto
    • Edited Security Detail for new Alcoa Corp to set ticker to AA.
    Entering the Spinoff transaction Quicken did a lot of cha-chinging and recorded a pair of "Bought" and "RtrnCap" transactions in my register next to each lot of old Alcoa (now Arconic) I owned.

    101 shares of old Alcoa at 1 for 3 should have given me 33.66667 shares of new Alcoa.
    The Spinoff transaction, going over a few DRIP lots with fractional shares, came up a little short with  33.66633 shares.
    My brokerage website shows I own 33.0 shares of new Alcoa Corp
    I guess I'll be getting another Cash in Lieu for 2/3 of a share in a few days.

    Bottom line: that's what I did. I hope I did it correctly. If my assumed cost per old / new share is off ... oh, well. I'm not going to worry about it.
    If somebody finds out what real cost I should have put, please post the numbers.

    And, whatever you do ... create a backup of your Quicken data file first, before you get started working on this! If you don't like the results or if something gets messed up you can restore your data file and start over.
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited November 2017
     Download these securities from my Fi this AM..The securities downloaded correctly into QM17 but w/o any cost basis info. Checked for cost basis info with my Fi's website and it was all N/A at this time. Queried my guy at the Fi who advised it would take a few days b4 the cost basis info is available. 

    Subsequently have had issues with both AA & ARNC doing mid day updates into portfolio view. I noted that the quoted prices on the investment .quicken.com site were all over the place wrt AA & ARNC. Confirmed that the quotes in the portfolio view are indeed downloaded into QM from the Quicken site. Was able to get the correct quote price by rebuilding the price history on the security but will not be doing any further quote downloads until the situation gets resolved on the quicken site
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited November 2017
    +1 ukr..like you I did a backup prior to downloading this activity..Somehow I had a feeling this was going to be painful:)

    When my Fi has cost basis info on their site will hopefully be able to bring that info into Qm
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited November 2017
    New quantity of AA shares s/b 33.33% of the the ARNC shares
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    I was rather hoping Lurker would provide one of his well-thought-out corporate action responses.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2016
    I've also noticed if you look at the investing.quicken.com site data for these two stocks that you will find inconsistencies a data swapped.

    http://investing.quicken.com/public/api/index.asp?symbol=AA&..wsodbackdoor..=off
    http://investing.quicken.com/public/api/index.asp?symbol=ARNC&..wsodbackdoor..=off

    The Latest Headlines are swapped between the two stock. The Overview chart for AA appears to be correct but the quote price is wrong. The Overview chart for ARNC appears to be correct and the quote appears to be correct, but the data reported in Quicken app is wrong. Also there is chart data for ARNC prior to 11/1 and that should not be true. The stock didn't exist before 11/1.
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited November 2017
    investing.quicken.com is definitly a bit shaky as Mark observed. If you are  inclined to update quotes in the portfolio view interday you stand a good chance of getting erroneous data on ARNC & AA if both securities show up in your portfolio view:)
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2016
    UKR said:

    Everybody,
    I could be terribly wrong about this. Here's what I've done.
    First, I have not downloaded and/or not accepted any downloaded transactions from the brokerage. IMHO, whatever you get from the broker tends to just muddle the waters.
    If you have accepted transactions, delete them.

    The transactions which I entered in my account regarding the Alcoa Inc to Arconic Inc and (new) Alcoa Corp change are:

    • 10/06/16 - Alcoa Inc reverse split 1 for 3.
    • 10/06/16 - Broker charged mandatory reorg fee. They're fast with that.
    • 10/18/16 - finally Cash in Lieu for fractional shares received.
      After that, I now own 101 shares Alcoa Inc (AA).
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Alcoa Inc Corporate Name Change transaction to Arconic Inc. Change ticker from AA to ARNC and retained price history from old AA
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Corporate Spinoff transaction making a few assumptions along the way:
      Old security name: "Arconic Inc"
      New Company: "Alcoa Corp (after 11/1/16)"
      New shares issued: 0.33333    <- 1 for 3, as close as I can make it
      Cost per old share: 23             <- I'm really just guessing here, but I must enter a value
      Cost per new share: 23            <- ditto
    • Edited Security Detail for new Alcoa Corp to set ticker to AA.
    Entering the Spinoff transaction Quicken did a lot of cha-chinging and recorded a pair of "Bought" and "RtrnCap" transactions in my register next to each lot of old Alcoa (now Arconic) I owned.

    101 shares of old Alcoa at 1 for 3 should have given me 33.66667 shares of new Alcoa.
    The Spinoff transaction, going over a few DRIP lots with fractional shares, came up a little short with  33.66633 shares.
    My brokerage website shows I own 33.0 shares of new Alcoa Corp
    I guess I'll be getting another Cash in Lieu for 2/3 of a share in a few days.

    Bottom line: that's what I did. I hope I did it correctly. If my assumed cost per old / new share is off ... oh, well. I'm not going to worry about it.
    If somebody finds out what real cost I should have put, please post the numbers.

    And, whatever you do ... create a backup of your Quicken data file first, before you get started working on this! If you don't like the results or if something gets messed up you can restore your data file and start over.
    Apologies if this is a side tracking question..  I'm trying to work through the same thing, but with the Quicken Mac 2016 version.  I don't see  Corporate Spin off type transaction.  If it there for the Mac version ? 
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    UKR said:

    Everybody,
    I could be terribly wrong about this. Here's what I've done.
    First, I have not downloaded and/or not accepted any downloaded transactions from the brokerage. IMHO, whatever you get from the broker tends to just muddle the waters.
    If you have accepted transactions, delete them.

    The transactions which I entered in my account regarding the Alcoa Inc to Arconic Inc and (new) Alcoa Corp change are:

    • 10/06/16 - Alcoa Inc reverse split 1 for 3.
    • 10/06/16 - Broker charged mandatory reorg fee. They're fast with that.
    • 10/18/16 - finally Cash in Lieu for fractional shares received.
      After that, I now own 101 shares Alcoa Inc (AA).
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Alcoa Inc Corporate Name Change transaction to Arconic Inc. Change ticker from AA to ARNC and retained price history from old AA
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Corporate Spinoff transaction making a few assumptions along the way:
      Old security name: "Arconic Inc"
      New Company: "Alcoa Corp (after 11/1/16)"
      New shares issued: 0.33333    <- 1 for 3, as close as I can make it
      Cost per old share: 23             <- I'm really just guessing here, but I must enter a value
      Cost per new share: 23            <- ditto
    • Edited Security Detail for new Alcoa Corp to set ticker to AA.
    Entering the Spinoff transaction Quicken did a lot of cha-chinging and recorded a pair of "Bought" and "RtrnCap" transactions in my register next to each lot of old Alcoa (now Arconic) I owned.

    101 shares of old Alcoa at 1 for 3 should have given me 33.66667 shares of new Alcoa.
    The Spinoff transaction, going over a few DRIP lots with fractional shares, came up a little short with  33.66633 shares.
    My brokerage website shows I own 33.0 shares of new Alcoa Corp
    I guess I'll be getting another Cash in Lieu for 2/3 of a share in a few days.

    Bottom line: that's what I did. I hope I did it correctly. If my assumed cost per old / new share is off ... oh, well. I'm not going to worry about it.
    If somebody finds out what real cost I should have put, please post the numbers.

    And, whatever you do ... create a backup of your Quicken data file first, before you get started working on this! If you don't like the results or if something gets messed up you can restore your data file and start over.
    Julie, no there is not a corporate spinoff transaction in QMac2017. You will get better results using Remove and Add transactions, though.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited December 2016
    UKR said:

    Everybody,
    I could be terribly wrong about this. Here's what I've done.
    First, I have not downloaded and/or not accepted any downloaded transactions from the brokerage. IMHO, whatever you get from the broker tends to just muddle the waters.
    If you have accepted transactions, delete them.

    The transactions which I entered in my account regarding the Alcoa Inc to Arconic Inc and (new) Alcoa Corp change are:

    • 10/06/16 - Alcoa Inc reverse split 1 for 3.
    • 10/06/16 - Broker charged mandatory reorg fee. They're fast with that.
    • 10/18/16 - finally Cash in Lieu for fractional shares received.
      After that, I now own 101 shares Alcoa Inc (AA).
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Alcoa Inc Corporate Name Change transaction to Arconic Inc. Change ticker from AA to ARNC and retained price history from old AA
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Corporate Spinoff transaction making a few assumptions along the way:
      Old security name: "Arconic Inc"
      New Company: "Alcoa Corp (after 11/1/16)"
      New shares issued: 0.33333    <- 1 for 3, as close as I can make it
      Cost per old share: 23             <- I'm really just guessing here, but I must enter a value
      Cost per new share: 23            <- ditto
    • Edited Security Detail for new Alcoa Corp to set ticker to AA.
    Entering the Spinoff transaction Quicken did a lot of cha-chinging and recorded a pair of "Bought" and "RtrnCap" transactions in my register next to each lot of old Alcoa (now Arconic) I owned.

    101 shares of old Alcoa at 1 for 3 should have given me 33.66667 shares of new Alcoa.
    The Spinoff transaction, going over a few DRIP lots with fractional shares, came up a little short with  33.66633 shares.
    My brokerage website shows I own 33.0 shares of new Alcoa Corp
    I guess I'll be getting another Cash in Lieu for 2/3 of a share in a few days.

    Bottom line: that's what I did. I hope I did it correctly. If my assumed cost per old / new share is off ... oh, well. I'm not going to worry about it.
    If somebody finds out what real cost I should have put, please post the numbers.

    And, whatever you do ... create a backup of your Quicken data file first, before you get started working on this! If you don't like the results or if something gets messed up you can restore your data file and start over.
    I am sort of in limbo on this item: I received the downloads from my Fi the other day..AA has still not provided Cost data for the shares provided, so I am waiting for that data. 

    The download at present shows  ARCONIC(ARNC) in the Portfolio view with the correct qty of shares but no cost data. The Alcoa does not show in the portfolio view but I noted a placeholder downloaded which I could (I hope) edit when the cost info is provided.  1 step at a time  I guess:)

    I have  another Quicken file that I am playing with. In that file , I renamed the Alcoa security to Arconic Inc., inserted the symbol ARNC & it now shows up correct with the lots in the portfolio view.
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited November 2017
    I note this AM that the Investing.Quicken.com is stabilizing wrt to ARNC:) However AA  still has an upset stomach:)
  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    @ukr:

    Arconic    ARNC

    11/1/16
    Open   $22.24
    High     $22.64
    Low      $18.75
    Close   $18.92

    Alcoa Corp   AA

    11/1/16
    Open   $22.10
    High     $23.55
    Low      $21.78
    Close   $23.00

    I'd suggest using $18.92 close price for the Arconic valuation, consistent with the $23.00 close price you used with Alcoa.

    This is a very typical spin-off and the IRS tells you to allocate your basis in your original stock between the 2 stocks you end up with, based on the relative fair market values of the holdings after the split.  You can use whatever per-share FMV you feel you can justify to the IRS - there's no "cookbook" method - but the two closing prices are certainly OK.

    I would generally use a series of "Add" and "Remove" transactions as opposed to the Spin-off Wizard just to avoid potential problems that seem to crop up with multiple RtrnCap transactions and to avoid the somewhat funky presentation of owning a stock "back in time" that didn't really exist at the time.
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited November 2017
    This is a tax free event so whatever approach one uses needs to reflect that in Quicken
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2016
    Hey guys I found this http://www.schwabpt.com/public/file/P-9765482/SPT013688.pdf

    Based on that I used:

    11/01/16 - Entered Corporate Spinoff transaction making a few assumptions along the way:
    Old security name: "Arconic Inc"
    New Company: "Alcoa Corp (after 11/1/16)"
    New shares issued: 0.333333  
    Cost per old share: 18.72           
    Cost per new share: 22.10     

    It looks good but I have some fractional shares that does not show up in my brokerage account, but there is this note: "Conversion Price for Cash in Lieu For Fractional Shares $0.00 (Unknown)", so maybe more to come.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    (Sorry for the slow response, mshiggins.  Life gets in the way sometimes.)

    For me, the first question the user/investor needs to answers is:  What companies do I want to continue to be reflected in my Quicken data?  The two possible answers are:
    1. The old original Alcoa Inc, the new Arconic and the new Alcoa Corp, or
    2. Only Arconic and the the new Alcoa Corp.  
    The second is the 'proper' real world answer as officially what was Alcoa Inc got renamed to Arconic.  You accomplish that in Quicken by executing a Corporate Name Change or by more simply editing the Security Detail and changing the name.  The drawback to that name change process is that all transactions in Quicken that used that original Alcoa Inc. name will now read as Arconic transactions.  That is, the user bought X shares of Arconic 3 years ago rather than X shares of Alcoa Inc.  

    Some users may not like that presentation and may want the historical transactions to reflect Alcoa, Inc with only new going forward transactions reflecting the Arconic name.  Those users will want to use a Corporate Acquisitions transaction whereby Arconic acquires the shares of Alcoa, Inc.  This approach may have ramifications on investment performance reports and calculations within Quicken.  

    I am going to proceed on the basis of the second option and here is how I would handle it.  (Note I am not an owner of Alcoa/Arconic shares, nor am I an investment professional, yada, yada, yada.  Do your own due diligence.    

    Step 1 - Change name to Arconic:  Edit the security details for the Alcoa Inc security you have in Quicken.  Change the name to Arconic.  Change the ticker to ARCN.  Choose the options to copy the old (AA) prices to the new ticker and to delete the old (AA) prices.

    Step 2 - Create a new Alcoa Corp security:  I would work from the security list, new security, Ticker symbol AA, Name Alcoa Corp.

    Step 3 - Spinoff Alcoa Inc shares from Arconic:  I dislike the Quicken Corporate spinoff action primarily because of its backdating history-changing approach.  For this type of case then, I prefer to enter transactions more manually.  First, it is necessary to determine the allocation of the original Arconic (old Alcoa Inc) cost basis to the two companies - Arconic and Alcoa Corp.  Several other posts have already presented information in that direction.  Arconic will be publishing a Form 8937 in the coming days preseting their view on that calculation.  Based on the 1/3 share ratio and prices like 18.92 for Arconic and 23 for Alcoa Corp, the split should be about 71% / 29% with Arconic keeping the larger protion of the basis.  DO YOUR OWN CALCULATIONS or RELY ON YOUR INVESTMENT PROFESSIONALS!

    a) Remove all shares of Arconic noting the original basis and acquisition dates for each separate lot.
    b) For each separate lot, enter an Add Shares for the original number of Arconic shares in the lot with that lot's acquisition date and about 71% of that lot's basis.  Enter a second Add Shares for the new Alcoa Corp shares, 1/3 as many as in the original lot, about 29% of the original basis, and using the original lot's acquisition date.  I am always inclined to keep the share quantity to 3 decimal accuracy and to occasionally round 'differntly' to end up at the right total number of shares.)

    (Sidebar 1:  For those choosing the three company option from my beginning question, you can process here as Remove Shares of the old Alcoa Inc, and then Add Shares for Arconic and for Alcoa Corp effecting the Corporate Acquisition in that manner.)

    (Sidebar 2:  For those of you with many lots, perhaps from DRPs, there are techniques to generate the base Add Shares transactions such that you only need to edit those transactions to get the correct basis established.  Four or five lots - not worth the trouble; 20 or 30 lots, ask about it.)

    When you are complete with the Add Shares transaction, you may have a fractional share of Alcoa Inc. shown that is not reflected in your brokerage data.  Sell the fractional share for any cash-in-lieu you received.  

    Closing comments:  I do not necessarily trust the brokerages to get this sort of thing right the first time.  You should have a basis here for questioning what they are telling you.  Conversely, once you trust their data, you can tweak these transactions as necessary to get them to agree with your brokerage data, if that is important to you.  

    Look for the Form 8937 data on the Alcoa and Arconic websites to further validate or guide what you are doing here.  

    HTH
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2018
    Just learned the following from my Fi:

    the ARNC cost/lots have already been attributed to their systems, because the new ARNC carries the exact same lot information as the original AA shares purchased (everything has already been adjusted for the 1:3 stock split in October.    This leaves the cost basis lots for the new AA shares.   They will have multiple lots exactly like the ARNC shares show, however the cost/share price for the lots has not been updated yet.   The Fi is waiting for the conversion ratio to use on the AA shares, this will come from Alcoa.  Once this has come from Alcoa, the Fi will automatically update  cost basis lots on AA.     keep the downloaded cost basis lots on the ARNC you received, those are accurate.    You will just have no data on AA shares until we receive the information.  Could take a few weeks, as we have to wait for Alcoa to send it to our cost basis reporting department.  
  • STEVEN WEINBERG
    STEVEN WEINBERG Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    UKR said:

    Everybody,
    I could be terribly wrong about this. Here's what I've done.
    First, I have not downloaded and/or not accepted any downloaded transactions from the brokerage. IMHO, whatever you get from the broker tends to just muddle the waters.
    If you have accepted transactions, delete them.

    The transactions which I entered in my account regarding the Alcoa Inc to Arconic Inc and (new) Alcoa Corp change are:

    • 10/06/16 - Alcoa Inc reverse split 1 for 3.
    • 10/06/16 - Broker charged mandatory reorg fee. They're fast with that.
    • 10/18/16 - finally Cash in Lieu for fractional shares received.
      After that, I now own 101 shares Alcoa Inc (AA).
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Alcoa Inc Corporate Name Change transaction to Arconic Inc. Change ticker from AA to ARNC and retained price history from old AA
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Corporate Spinoff transaction making a few assumptions along the way:
      Old security name: "Arconic Inc"
      New Company: "Alcoa Corp (after 11/1/16)"
      New shares issued: 0.33333    <- 1 for 3, as close as I can make it
      Cost per old share: 23             <- I'm really just guessing here, but I must enter a value
      Cost per new share: 23            <- ditto
    • Edited Security Detail for new Alcoa Corp to set ticker to AA.
    Entering the Spinoff transaction Quicken did a lot of cha-chinging and recorded a pair of "Bought" and "RtrnCap" transactions in my register next to each lot of old Alcoa (now Arconic) I owned.

    101 shares of old Alcoa at 1 for 3 should have given me 33.66667 shares of new Alcoa.
    The Spinoff transaction, going over a few DRIP lots with fractional shares, came up a little short with  33.66633 shares.
    My brokerage website shows I own 33.0 shares of new Alcoa Corp
    I guess I'll be getting another Cash in Lieu for 2/3 of a share in a few days.

    Bottom line: that's what I did. I hope I did it correctly. If my assumed cost per old / new share is off ... oh, well. I'm not going to worry about it.
    If somebody finds out what real cost I should have put, please post the numbers.

    And, whatever you do ... create a backup of your Quicken data file first, before you get started working on this! If you don't like the results or if something gets messed up you can restore your data file and start over.
    1st, do a backup.  Next do a corporate spin off of Alcoa to Arnonic 1 to 1.  For the cost basis, run a report and put in Excel or equivalent to find out your average cost.  For Arnconic, use @22.24 which is the open at 10/1.  Not sure what they do with this info,but they want it.  This will take some time to run, so be patient.  Next, do a Stock Split for Alcoa of 3 to 1.  This also will take some time to run.

    Look at your portfolio and should be the right numbers for each except for the fractions which will be paid at some point in time.

    Sell the fractions when you receive the money as stock sale and you should be good to go.  

    Just did mine and all the numbers are right after you run Stock Price Update.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    UKR said:

    Everybody,
    I could be terribly wrong about this. Here's what I've done.
    First, I have not downloaded and/or not accepted any downloaded transactions from the brokerage. IMHO, whatever you get from the broker tends to just muddle the waters.
    If you have accepted transactions, delete them.

    The transactions which I entered in my account regarding the Alcoa Inc to Arconic Inc and (new) Alcoa Corp change are:

    • 10/06/16 - Alcoa Inc reverse split 1 for 3.
    • 10/06/16 - Broker charged mandatory reorg fee. They're fast with that.
    • 10/18/16 - finally Cash in Lieu for fractional shares received.
      After that, I now own 101 shares Alcoa Inc (AA).
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Alcoa Inc Corporate Name Change transaction to Arconic Inc. Change ticker from AA to ARNC and retained price history from old AA
    • 11/01/16 - Entered Corporate Spinoff transaction making a few assumptions along the way:
      Old security name: "Arconic Inc"
      New Company: "Alcoa Corp (after 11/1/16)"
      New shares issued: 0.33333    <- 1 for 3, as close as I can make it
      Cost per old share: 23             <- I'm really just guessing here, but I must enter a value
      Cost per new share: 23            <- ditto
    • Edited Security Detail for new Alcoa Corp to set ticker to AA.
    Entering the Spinoff transaction Quicken did a lot of cha-chinging and recorded a pair of "Bought" and "RtrnCap" transactions in my register next to each lot of old Alcoa (now Arconic) I owned.

    101 shares of old Alcoa at 1 for 3 should have given me 33.66667 shares of new Alcoa.
    The Spinoff transaction, going over a few DRIP lots with fractional shares, came up a little short with  33.66633 shares.
    My brokerage website shows I own 33.0 shares of new Alcoa Corp
    I guess I'll be getting another Cash in Lieu for 2/3 of a share in a few days.

    Bottom line: that's what I did. I hope I did it correctly. If my assumed cost per old / new share is off ... oh, well. I'm not going to worry about it.
    If somebody finds out what real cost I should have put, please post the numbers.

    And, whatever you do ... create a backup of your Quicken data file first, before you get started working on this! If you don't like the results or if something gets messed up you can restore your data file and start over.
    @STEVEN WEINBERG:  Words of caution.  It appears to me you are misinterpreting some information.  

    1)  When using the Corporate Spinoff macrotransaction in Quicken for Windows, the prompt for Cost per old share and Cost for new share is asking for the fair market values of one share of the old company and one share of the new company immediately after the spinoff.  This clarification to a poorly worded prompt is contained in the Quicken help files.  There is no need to compute "your average cost' meaning the average price you paid for your shares of the old (original) company.  

    The two fair market values along with the stock ratio are used to determine how to allocate the original cost basis to the two ongoing companies.  If after the spinoff old is valued at $20 / share and new is valued at $15 / share but you have 1/3 as many shares, your total holding is worth $25 (= 20 + 15 / 3).  80% of that is in the old company (20 / 25) and 20% is in the new company (15 / 3 / 25).  So 80% of your original basis in the old company stays with the old company and the new company gets 20% of that basis.  From those basis allocations, future capital gains can be computed for taxable income determinations.  

    With what you have indicated you have done, it is likely that the computed allocation of cost basis to the two parts is not correct.  That may or may not be important to you based on your uses, needs and expectations of Quicken.  

    2)  "Next, do a Stock Split for Alcoa of 3 to 1."  Alcoa did not do a stock split.  There are two different Alcoa's involved here.  Prior to all this, there was Alcoa Inc. which traded with the ticker symbol AA.  After all this, there is Alcoa Corp.  Alcoa Inc has been renamed to Arconic and its ticker was changed to ARCN.  Since Alcoa Inc no longer exists under that name and since the AA symbol was not going to be used by Alcoa Inc (aka Arconic), the new Alcoa Corp chose to take on that ticker.  

    All that may be semantics and not consequential to you, but if you are trying to use Quicken to monitor or judge how the original company is performing as an investment, it is likely important to get the details right.
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    q.lurker said:

    (Sorry for the slow response, mshiggins.  Life gets in the way sometimes.)

    For me, the first question the user/investor needs to answers is:  What companies do I want to continue to be reflected in my Quicken data?  The two possible answers are:

    1. The old original Alcoa Inc, the new Arconic and the new Alcoa Corp, or
    2. Only Arconic and the the new Alcoa Corp.  
    The second is the 'proper' real world answer as officially what was Alcoa Inc got renamed to Arconic.  You accomplish that in Quicken by executing a Corporate Name Change or by more simply editing the Security Detail and changing the name.  The drawback to that name change process is that all transactions in Quicken that used that original Alcoa Inc. name will now read as Arconic transactions.  That is, the user bought X shares of Arconic 3 years ago rather than X shares of Alcoa Inc.  

    Some users may not like that presentation and may want the historical transactions to reflect Alcoa, Inc with only new going forward transactions reflecting the Arconic name.  Those users will want to use a Corporate Acquisitions transaction whereby Arconic acquires the shares of Alcoa, Inc.  This approach may have ramifications on investment performance reports and calculations within Quicken.  

    I am going to proceed on the basis of the second option and here is how I would handle it.  (Note I am not an owner of Alcoa/Arconic shares, nor am I an investment professional, yada, yada, yada.  Do your own due diligence.    

    Step 1 - Change name to Arconic:  Edit the security details for the Alcoa Inc security you have in Quicken.  Change the name to Arconic.  Change the ticker to ARCN.  Choose the options to copy the old (AA) prices to the new ticker and to delete the old (AA) prices.

    Step 2 - Create a new Alcoa Corp security:  I would work from the security list, new security, Ticker symbol AA, Name Alcoa Corp.

    Step 3 - Spinoff Alcoa Inc shares from Arconic:  I dislike the Quicken Corporate spinoff action primarily because of its backdating history-changing approach.  For this type of case then, I prefer to enter transactions more manually.  First, it is necessary to determine the allocation of the original Arconic (old Alcoa Inc) cost basis to the two companies - Arconic and Alcoa Corp.  Several other posts have already presented information in that direction.  Arconic will be publishing a Form 8937 in the coming days preseting their view on that calculation.  Based on the 1/3 share ratio and prices like 18.92 for Arconic and 23 for Alcoa Corp, the split should be about 71% / 29% with Arconic keeping the larger protion of the basis.  DO YOUR OWN CALCULATIONS or RELY ON YOUR INVESTMENT PROFESSIONALS!

    a) Remove all shares of Arconic noting the original basis and acquisition dates for each separate lot.
    b) For each separate lot, enter an Add Shares for the original number of Arconic shares in the lot with that lot's acquisition date and about 71% of that lot's basis.  Enter a second Add Shares for the new Alcoa Corp shares, 1/3 as many as in the original lot, about 29% of the original basis, and using the original lot's acquisition date.  I am always inclined to keep the share quantity to 3 decimal accuracy and to occasionally round 'differntly' to end up at the right total number of shares.)

    (Sidebar 1:  For those choosing the three company option from my beginning question, you can process here as Remove Shares of the old Alcoa Inc, and then Add Shares for Arconic and for Alcoa Corp effecting the Corporate Acquisition in that manner.)

    (Sidebar 2:  For those of you with many lots, perhaps from DRPs, there are techniques to generate the base Add Shares transactions such that you only need to edit those transactions to get the correct basis established.  Four or five lots - not worth the trouble; 20 or 30 lots, ask about it.)

    When you are complete with the Add Shares transaction, you may have a fractional share of Alcoa Inc. shown that is not reflected in your brokerage data.  Sell the fractional share for any cash-in-lieu you received.  

    Closing comments:  I do not necessarily trust the brokerages to get this sort of thing right the first time.  You should have a basis here for questioning what they are telling you.  Conversely, once you trust their data, you can tweak these transactions as necessary to get them to agree with your brokerage data, if that is important to you.  

    Look for the Form 8937 data on the Alcoa and Arconic websites to further validate or guide what you are doing here.  

    HTH
    Thank you. I'll be looking this over this weekend. Hope it is not as twisty as I anticipate it will be :-/
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
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