Asset Allocation Quicken 2017. s

BeDutch

Asset Allocation Quicken 2017.

I have just started with the Quicken 2017 version. I am quite interested in using the asset allocation functionality, but am STUCK. In the asset Allocation Guide under the tab Set your target one is offered a choice of 10 classes the allocation among which obviously has to add to 100%. SURPRISINGLY the choice is somewhat strange. I get Canadian Stocks, US Stocks, International Stocks, Domestic Bonds, Global Bonds, Money Market, GICs, Cash "other" and unclassified. A quick glance of these classes shows that some of them are hardly different, i.e compare Cash, Money Market and GICs. I looked for, but did not find a way to change these labels to allow a more diversified set of potential Asset Classes. That became even stranger when I looked at the sample / illustration portfolios. Before even questioning the numbers used there, it shows that only 7 classes are used and that the labels per asset Class are DIFFERENT from those from which a Quicken user can choose. One sample portfolio includes the following ( capitalized labels are new, and not available) Money Market, CANADIAN BONDS, US LARGE CAP, International Stocks, 5 YEAR GICs, CANADIAN LARGE CAP,CANADIAN SMALL CAP. I would like to select my own distinctly separate classes, and preferably also enter the mathematics associated to each ( using an ETF or Index analysis or just judgement). BUT For now, until someone can point the way, I am stuck with the 10 prescribed choices including Money Market, GICs and Cash. Hopefully someone can help. Thanks

mistertheplague

I'm unfamiliar with whatever nuances exist in the Canadian version. In the US version, you cannot edit or add/remove Quicken's stock asset classes. This limitation renders rebalancing within Quicken impractical unless you only hold a handful of asset classes in your portfolio. 

If by "enter the mathematics associated to each" you mean change the asset class mixture of a fund, you can do that, at least in the US version. In the Security List, double-click the security/fund in question, then select Edit Security Details>Asset Class>Mixture>Define

BeDutch

I was not aware that there are significant differences between the Canadian and other versions of Quicken 2017.

Now found out that there are in some version(s) options to choose via a drop down menu on the left in the Asset Allocation Guide  menus like "How do I update asset classes" and subsequently "Common questions about downloading asset classes".

In some versions apparently asset class information is downloaded from Value Line, whereas in my version it comes from much less qualified  ( if not totally obscure) MoneyWare Inc. Hopefully someone at Inuit reads this and gets going with a fix/ upgrade.

NotACPA

BeDutch said:

I was not aware that there are significant differences between the Canadian and other versions of Quicken 2017.

Now found out that there are in some version(s) options to choose via a drop down menu on the left in the Asset Allocation Guide  menus like "How do I update asset classes" and subsequently "Common questions about downloading asset classes".

In some versions apparently asset class information is downloaded from Value Line, whereas in my version it comes from much less qualified  ( if not totally obscure) MoneyWare Inc. Hopefully someone at Inuit reads this and gets going with a fix/ upgrade.

Quicken, the product, is no longer owned by Intuit ... as of about a year ago.
Quicken, the product, is now owned by Quicken Inc., a subsidiary of H.I.G. Capital

This forum is, primarily, other users. And in the US, there have been requests going back several years to add new asset classes ... which requests haven't been satisfied.

SO, I wouldn't expect your request to be met anytime soon.

BeDutch

BeDutch said:

I was not aware that there are significant differences between the Canadian and other versions of Quicken 2017.

Now found out that there are in some version(s) options to choose via a drop down menu on the left in the Asset Allocation Guide  menus like "How do I update asset classes" and subsequently "Common questions about downloading asset classes".

In some versions apparently asset class information is downloaded from Value Line, whereas in my version it comes from much less qualified  ( if not totally obscure) MoneyWare Inc. Hopefully someone at Inuit reads this and gets going with a fix/ upgrade.

You  are probably right, but even the new  owners need to keep their clients.  

Quicken Tamara

None of our products get Asset Allocation from anything other than our service provider, which is not any of those listed by @BeDutch.

If you find that the Quotes Update is not getting the Asset Class you expect, we would need to know exact tickers and the source of the info you use to compare against our feed in Quicken.

For example, Quicken US can be compared against Yahoo! Finance or Google Finance as a disinterested 3rd party for confirmation of the ticker info downloaded by Quicken.

For CA tickers, we compare against TMX and/or CANNEX (depending on ticker Type).

Hope this helps.

BeDutch

Thank you Quicken Tamara, for taking an interest in this issue.   The references I make to  Value Line and MoneyWare and which you question in your opening sentence are directly from the Quicken documentation. For the latter go to the Canadian version of Quicken 2017 and click on Allocation Guide,  then on model portfolios. You see the reference in the first line. For the reference to Value Line and my other quotes go to  "https://www.quicken.com/support/how-do-i-view-asset-class-definitions". the quotes in my earlier post are directly taken from that Quicken page.

I cannot really understand what you mean with a Quotes Update not getting the Asset Class I expect. As far as I am concerned the quotes are reflective of my investments and I have to manually allocate those investments to the Asset Classes when I first enter the investment. I do not think nor expect that Quicken allocates RY to Canadian Stocks and BAC to US Stocks and SLB to International Stocks. A user can do that quite easily. The point of my original post is not how to allocate certain tickers to certain asset classes. It is that the predefined asset classes are too restrictive, and are not even the same as those used in the illustrative model portfolios. Once I know how I can change the text of the labels, I can proceed and distinguish for example between USD Money Market and CAD or Euro Money Market, a distinction which is relevant for me, or distinguish between European stocks, Emerging Market Stocks and US Stocks.

I hope that this clarifies my original question.  Please look into this again and RETRACT or CLARIFY your opening sentence. Hopefully this exchange helps to get the issue resolved for the benefit of all Quicken 2017 users.

mistertheplague

Hopefully this exchange helps to get the issue resolved for the benefit of all Quicken 2017 users.

If that turned out to be true, then magic fairy dust must follow you everywhere you go. As NotACPA indicated, it's a blindspot users have been banging on the table about for years, to absolutely no avail.  

And it's not like the blindspot is a small one. The inability to customize asset classes in Quicken not only renders Q's rebalancing tool useless unless you hold your grandfather's portfolio, it renders the Tax Optimizer useless as well, since the TO only sees what Q's asset allocator sees. Don't even get me going on this issue. 

I use the following tool for rebalancing. It's a free spreadsheet designed to be populated with data from Quicken's Portfolio Value and Cost Basis report:

Portfolio Asset Allocation Tool

BeDutch

THANKS mistertheplague.

You are obviously quite right to be sceptical about an upgrade to the current version of Quicken, but if we do not try to get the message across, it certainly will not work.

Also, you appear BOTH an experienced investor AND a good long standing Quicken client, otherwise you would not have taken the time to find such alternative. I imagine that someone in the marketing side of the current owners of the Quicken license may well be smart enough NOT TO IGNORE feedback from people like yourself

I have downloaded the excel spreadsheet and now opened it in version 10. Will play around with it some more and may have questions later.

Hopefully Tamara, reads both of our replies after her surprising response in which she, now I believe factually contradicted, statement about  "none of our products". It is not clear to me whether she really understands the difference between asset price downloads and asset allocation. To avoid the confusion, the former should more appropriately be referred to as security price downloads and I have no issue with Quicken's functionality there, albeit that some of my securities, albeit listed, do not download such as Canadian Apartment REIT;  (CAR-UN.TO  as Yahoo Finance refers to it).

I am also encouraged by the observation that there is some movement on the Quicken side since the reference asset classes like  Canadian Small Cap Stocks, US Large Cap Stocks and 5 YEAR GICs  - now included in the MoneyWare model portfolio  - did not appear in Quicken 2014 and earlier versions, at least I cannot recall seeing at any time in the last 30 years.

Tamara, as a Quicken employee may be able to address the issue once we have communicated it effectively to her. Hopefully she knows the inside route to the people who can authorize the necessary change / update.

For now mistertheplague, you have given me something with "play with" in the

http://www.flexibleretirementplanner.com/tools/PortfolioAssetAllocationTool.xls

Thanks for that link.

q_lurker

BeDutch said:

Thank you Quicken Tamara, for taking an interest in this issue.   The references I make to  Value Line and MoneyWare and which you question in your opening sentence are directly from the Quicken documentation. For the latter go to the Canadian version of Quicken 2017 and click on Allocation Guide,  then on model portfolios. You see the reference in the first line. For the reference to Value Line and my other quotes go to  "https://www.quicken.com/support/how-do-i-view-asset-class-definitions". the quotes in my earlier post are directly taken from that Quicken page.

I cannot really understand what you mean with a Quotes Update not getting the Asset Class I expect. As far as I am concerned the quotes are reflective of my investments and I have to manually allocate those investments to the Asset Classes when I first enter the investment. I do not think nor expect that Quicken allocates RY to Canadian Stocks and BAC to US Stocks and SLB to International Stocks. A user can do that quite easily. The point of my original post is not how to allocate certain tickers to certain asset classes. It is that the predefined asset classes are too restrictive, and are not even the same as those used in the illustrative model portfolios. Once I know how I can change the text of the labels, I can proceed and distinguish for example between USD Money Market and CAD or Euro Money Market, a distinction which is relevant for me, or distinguish between European stocks, Emerging Market Stocks and US Stocks.

I hope that this clarifies my original question.  Please look into this again and RETRACT or CLARIFY your opening sentence. Hopefully this exchange helps to get the issue resolved for the benefit of all Quicken 2017 users.

@BeDutch:  it appears your link is not correct (at least for me).  This might help other readers get to your referenced spot:
https://www.quicken.com/support/how-do-i-view-asset-class-definitions

BeDutch

BeDutch said:

Thank you Quicken Tamara, for taking an interest in this issue.   The references I make to  Value Line and MoneyWare and which you question in your opening sentence are directly from the Quicken documentation. For the latter go to the Canadian version of Quicken 2017 and click on Allocation Guide,  then on model portfolios. You see the reference in the first line. For the reference to Value Line and my other quotes go to  "https://www.quicken.com/support/how-do-i-view-asset-class-definitions". the quotes in my earlier post are directly taken from that Quicken page.

I cannot really understand what you mean with a Quotes Update not getting the Asset Class I expect. As far as I am concerned the quotes are reflective of my investments and I have to manually allocate those investments to the Asset Classes when I first enter the investment. I do not think nor expect that Quicken allocates RY to Canadian Stocks and BAC to US Stocks and SLB to International Stocks. A user can do that quite easily. The point of my original post is not how to allocate certain tickers to certain asset classes. It is that the predefined asset classes are too restrictive, and are not even the same as those used in the illustrative model portfolios. Once I know how I can change the text of the labels, I can proceed and distinguish for example between USD Money Market and CAD or Euro Money Market, a distinction which is relevant for me, or distinguish between European stocks, Emerging Market Stocks and US Stocks.

I hope that this clarifies my original question.  Please look into this again and RETRACT or CLARIFY your opening sentence. Hopefully this exchange helps to get the issue resolved for the benefit of all Quicken 2017 users.

Thanks, not sure what happened. the text of your link appears identical to mine, and yours works, whereas mine appears " contaminated by the continuing sentence after my last ". I should probably have inserted a clearer break. Thanks  I will now also recheck the very interesting link which mistertheplague shared below.

q_lurker

Now that we have the technicality worked out -- BeDutch wrote:

The point of my original post is ... that the predefined asset classes are too restrictive, and are not even the same as those used in the illustrative model portfolios.

Yes, they are restrictive and have been for I'd say 20 years plus.  As far as model portfolios, they do match up with the US model portfolios.  The history as I recall and understand all based on my outside observations.  That is, I have no inside information about contractual relationships and who did what.  -- Perhaps 20 years ago, Intuit contracted with the Newport Group to present asset allocation information which became an Asset Allocation Guide module in the program.  That guide has remained in place and virtually unchanged since then and that drives the Asset Allocation cart today.  .  

That guide worked from the basis of the five basis asset classes:  Cash, Bonds, Large Cap, Small Cap, and International.  Aside from the guide or the asset allocation tab accessing the target and actual classes, there seems to me to be no real interaction between the guide and your data.  But for that guide to work then or now (and many say it never did work adequately, i. e., to their level of expectation), Quicken forced the asset class definitions into those 5 classes plus an "Other" class and and "Undefined" class.  Basically, the programmers or decision makers seemed to be saying if we allow the user to create self-chosen classes (REITS, Emerging Growth, International Bonds, etc.) then the programming for the Asset Allocation Guide and tab won't be meaningful.  Thus we won't let the user do that.  

That set of forced classes went so far that when Quicken/Intuit bought data from third party suppliers (like Value Line and Morningstar) that included a mid-cap designation, somehow that mid-cap portion had to be reclassified to large cap or small cap.

Tie those historical decisions in with another perspective (my opinion only) that parts of the program can't be 'changed' because some users might be using them as is, and you arrive at the point with the Asset Allocation information that we are at today.  

Now again, I can't comment about the Canadian program which over time may have had some different decisions applied, thus the model portfolio discrepancies.  I think those basics still apply, however.    

Instead of reworking the asset allocation guide or offering more class flexibility, a few years ago the Morningstar X-Ray option was tied in.  Although I do not use that feature, I believe that was the step taken to try to broaden out the asset allocation flexibility.  What you see these days as the Asset Allocation Guide and tab are relics of history and IMO, unlikely to be changed.     

Once I know how I can change the text of the labels, ... .

But you can't, and I don't see you getting that capability any time in the future -- short of an entire investment module rewrite, which (again, IMO) ain't happenin'.  

mistertheplague

q.lurker said:

Now that we have the technicality worked out -- BeDutch wrote:

The point of my original post is ... that the predefined asset classes are too restrictive, and are not even the same as those used in the illustrative model portfolios.

Yes, they are restrictive and have been for I'd say 20 years plus.  As far as model portfolios, they do match up with the US model portfolios.  The history as I recall and understand all based on my outside observations.  That is, I have no inside information about contractual relationships and who did what.  -- Perhaps 20 years ago, Intuit contracted with the Newport Group to present asset allocation information which became an Asset Allocation Guide module in the program.  That guide has remained in place and virtually unchanged since then and that drives the Asset Allocation cart today.  .  

That guide worked from the basis of the five basis asset classes:  Cash, Bonds, Large Cap, Small Cap, and International.  Aside from the guide or the asset allocation tab accessing the target and actual classes, there seems to me to be no real interaction between the guide and your data.  But for that guide to work then or now (and many say it never did work adequately, i. e., to their level of expectation), Quicken forced the asset class definitions into those 5 classes plus an "Other" class and and "Undefined" class.  Basically, the programmers or decision makers seemed to be saying if we allow the user to create self-chosen classes (REITS, Emerging Growth, International Bonds, etc.) then the programming for the Asset Allocation Guide and tab won't be meaningful.  Thus we won't let the user do that.  

That set of forced classes went so far that when Quicken/Intuit bought data from third party suppliers (like Value Line and Morningstar) that included a mid-cap designation, somehow that mid-cap portion had to be reclassified to large cap or small cap.

Tie those historical decisions in with another perspective (my opinion only) that parts of the program can't be 'changed' because some users might be using them as is, and you arrive at the point with the Asset Allocation information that we are at today.  

Now again, I can't comment about the Canadian program which over time may have had some different decisions applied, thus the model portfolio discrepancies.  I think those basics still apply, however.    

Instead of reworking the asset allocation guide or offering more class flexibility, a few years ago the Morningstar X-Ray option was tied in.  Although I do not use that feature, I believe that was the step taken to try to broaden out the asset allocation flexibility.  What you see these days as the Asset Allocation Guide and tab are relics of history and IMO, unlikely to be changed.     

Once I know how I can change the text of the labels, ... .

But you can't, and I don't see you getting that capability any time in the future -- short of an entire investment module rewrite, which (again, IMO) ain't happenin'.  @q.lurker: I don't doubt the veracity of any part of your dismal and entirely sober assessment.

My own (cynical) assessment has been that all of these add-ons (portfolio rebalancer, X-ray, Tax Optimizer) were added-on myopically, simply because of branding deals Intuit struck with various third-parties, not to offer the user increased functionality. Not allowing the user to step away from the Newport Group's regularly scheduled programming would be entirely consistent with that assessment. 

The main problem I see with this approach, even from the third-parties' perspective, is that the inability to customize asset classes renders their add-ons largely unusable. If these companies paid Intuit to embed their tools in Quicken, it's hard to see how they got their money's worth, since there's no way for a Quicken user to actually use the tools they paid to have branded in Quicken. (If I'm wrong and no money changed hands, then that's even more ridiculous). 

If you're a style investor, for instance, Morningstar's tool might be fun to mess around with once or twice, but you can't do anything with its x-ray vision. Q's allocator doesn't recognize style categories at all. 

Similarly, the Tax Optimizer is great for a goof, until you download it's report and see that it's advising you to sell your REITs (aka "Other" in QW) out of your tax-advantaged accounts and stick them in your taxable brokerage account, in order to make way for your "bonds." Meanwhile, accountants everywhere need smelling salts. 

Unknown

q.lurker said:

Now that we have the technicality worked out -- BeDutch wrote:

The point of my original post is ... that the predefined asset classes are too restrictive, and are not even the same as those used in the illustrative model portfolios.

Yes, they are restrictive and have been for I'd say 20 years plus.  As far as model portfolios, they do match up with the US model portfolios.  The history as I recall and understand all based on my outside observations.  That is, I have no inside information about contractual relationships and who did what.  -- Perhaps 20 years ago, Intuit contracted with the Newport Group to present asset allocation information which became an Asset Allocation Guide module in the program.  That guide has remained in place and virtually unchanged since then and that drives the Asset Allocation cart today.  .  

That guide worked from the basis of the five basis asset classes:  Cash, Bonds, Large Cap, Small Cap, and International.  Aside from the guide or the asset allocation tab accessing the target and actual classes, there seems to me to be no real interaction between the guide and your data.  But for that guide to work then or now (and many say it never did work adequately, i. e., to their level of expectation), Quicken forced the asset class definitions into those 5 classes plus an "Other" class and and "Undefined" class.  Basically, the programmers or decision makers seemed to be saying if we allow the user to create self-chosen classes (REITS, Emerging Growth, International Bonds, etc.) then the programming for the Asset Allocation Guide and tab won't be meaningful.  Thus we won't let the user do that.  

That set of forced classes went so far that when Quicken/Intuit bought data from third party suppliers (like Value Line and Morningstar) that included a mid-cap designation, somehow that mid-cap portion had to be reclassified to large cap or small cap.

Tie those historical decisions in with another perspective (my opinion only) that parts of the program can't be 'changed' because some users might be using them as is, and you arrive at the point with the Asset Allocation information that we are at today.  

Now again, I can't comment about the Canadian program which over time may have had some different decisions applied, thus the model portfolio discrepancies.  I think those basics still apply, however.    

Instead of reworking the asset allocation guide or offering more class flexibility, a few years ago the Morningstar X-Ray option was tied in.  Although I do not use that feature, I believe that was the step taken to try to broaden out the asset allocation flexibility.  What you see these days as the Asset Allocation Guide and tab are relics of history and IMO, unlikely to be changed.     

Once I know how I can change the text of the labels, ... .

But you can't, and I don't see you getting that capability any time in the future -- short of an entire investment module rewrite, which (again, IMO) ain't happenin'.  All the Quicken module "add-ons"...Morningstar, Zillow, Credit Score...and the "features" that go with them are just fluff.

This all occurred because Quicken (Intuit at the time) was FORCED to add new features in order to market their new year version.

Can you imagine if you had Quicken 2013 and when Quicken 2014 came out all that was new in the marketing materials was "Bug fixes"?  How would that play?

So the "geniuses" of marketing had to keep adding "something...anything" to Quicken to make it look like a very good reason to purchase a new year version.

Thus, you get that "neat and cool" list of "What's New In Quicken" on the box, on their website and in their marketing literature.  

Most of those features work, but only to an extent.  And the extent is that they don't REALLY work...because anyone with half a brain can see that although Quicken pulls in your data for these features, they are so bare boned that they give you no significant useable information.  And the restrictions within Quicken (such as the ridiculously low number of asset classes) hampers this information.

So...what do most users do?  They use Quicken as their financial register and create basic reports, the same as almost every other software can now do too.  Almost all of the other fluff gets shoved aside and pretty much ignored.

I've stopped hitting my head against the wall trying to get any useable investment information from Quicken.  I've relegated myself to setting up an Excel spreadsheet manually, but entering the data I have in Quicken (manually entering it, of course) and then re-balancing my portfolio that way.

It's labor intensive, but I'm retired now and have plenty of time on my hands.  LOL!  But I could never get Quicken to do this for me.  But if you scroll through the touted "features" of Quicken, it's listed there.  

BeDutch

Just a few minutes ago, I also saw a reaction from gmalis1. I cannot find it in the above thread, not sure why. Hopefully not too many responses fall by the wayside.

Anyhow, hopefully the comments will keep on flowing and hopefully the NEW OWNERS of Quicken software / license have time to read and understand at least some of them.

Commentary in the thread above that changes were made a long time ago and were basically driven by "marketing" people, may well be true. Although my old Marketing professor would strongly object and say that such comment confuses marketing with sales!

If the new owners of Quicken are properly educated in MARKETING as "identifying a need and finding a solution to satisfy that need", than the timing may just be perfect. The new owners should be looking for opportunities to further build the franchise and doing that only through introducing a subscription model, might not do that. That decision is perhaps more similar to milking an old cow dry.

HOPEFULLY the new owners see the opportunity, and reach the conclusion that a number of long standing clients (and some others) would really appreciate added functionality or revision of current "pretend" functionality. We do have alternatives these days, as one or two of the earlier respondents already indicated. I prefer not to work on the basis of threatening to quit, but rather on the basis of speaking out that there are some changes which would be really appreciated. How else can the MARKETING function at Quicken ever work properly if the users do not provide well considered feedback? Hopefully these messages are read and understood by the folks at Quicken. If so, we all may be surprised by further changes for the better!

Unknown

BeDutch said:

Just a few minutes ago, I also saw a reaction from gmalis1. I cannot find it in the above thread, not sure why. Hopefully not too many responses fall by the wayside.

Anyhow, hopefully the comments will keep on flowing and hopefully the NEW OWNERS of Quicken software / license have time to read and understand at least some of them.

Commentary in the thread above that changes were made a long time ago and were basically driven by "marketing" people, may well be true. Although my old Marketing professor would strongly object and say that such comment confuses marketing with sales!

If the new owners of Quicken are properly educated in MARKETING as "identifying a need and finding a solution to satisfy that need", than the timing may just be perfect. The new owners should be looking for opportunities to further build the franchise and doing that only through introducing a subscription model, might not do that. That decision is perhaps more similar to milking an old cow dry.

HOPEFULLY the new owners see the opportunity, and reach the conclusion that a number of long standing clients (and some others) would really appreciate added functionality or revision of current "pretend" functionality. We do have alternatives these days, as one or two of the earlier respondents already indicated. I prefer not to work on the basis of threatening to quit, but rather on the basis of speaking out that there are some changes which would be really appreciated. How else can the MARKETING function at Quicken ever work properly if the users do not provide well considered feedback? Hopefully these messages are read and understood by the folks at Quicken. If so, we all may be surprised by further changes for the better!

Because I bitched and complained too much, my post was removed by the Quicken police as "not being constructive".  

As to your current post, the Quicken developers should concentrate more on getting things right with the current software and forego meaningless fluff for the sake of marketing.  

With the new proposed subscription model, Quicken Inc will have ZERO incentive to add anything new.  First off, there will not be a "new" year version of Quicken each and every year...upgrades and updates will be released as they see fit.

Second, why actually add anything new?  There would be no incentive for Quicken to do so.  They'll have your money, you'll be forced to continue to subscribe since your data file will become "read only".  So, why even bother?  

Quicken Inc and the HIG Investment Group that owns it have one thing in mind...make as much money in as short a time frame as possible in order to recoup their investment and much, much more.