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QWin 2016 (R10): Problem transferring shares from one account to another

Unknown
Unknown Member
edited July 2018 in Investing (Windows)
Quicken 2016 R 10 (25.1.10.1)

I added a new mutual fund and funded it by transferring shares from another mutual fund using SoldX and the new fund as the transfer to account. In the new fund, I entered BoughtX and the old fund as the transfer from account.

The number of shares, price per share and dollar amount show correctly in the new fund. However, the Share Balance is in italics and the Securities Value shows $0.

I have done this a number of times before and never had this problem. What happened?

Comments

  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    Just my opinion...I would do this as a two stage process instead of one.

    SELL the mutual fund shares and then use the "Cash transferred out of account" action.

    With the new fund, then use the BUY transaction to purchase the shares with that cash balance. 

    See if that works any better.
  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    "In the new fund, I entered BoughtX and the old fund as the transfer from account."

    Why would you use a BoughtX action here?  The money for the simple Buy should have already been sitting in the Account from your previous SoldX action in the old Account.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited January 2018
    Thank you for both responses.

    gmalis1: I did try the two step process you suggested, but the Securities Value was still $0.

    Tom: Yes, the SoldX action did place the shares in the new account; but the Securities Value was $0. So I checked back to previous transactions where I had moved shares from one account to another, and found that with the new account I had used BoughtX and it worked fine. That was back then, but this time it did not.

    Solution: From Help I found that to add shares without executing a Buy transaction, use Add - Shares Added. That worked and all is well.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    jiw said:

    Thank you for both responses.

    gmalis1: I did try the two step process you suggested, but the Securities Value was still $0.

    Tom: Yes, the SoldX action did place the shares in the new account; but the Securities Value was $0. So I checked back to previous transactions where I had moved shares from one account to another, and found that with the new account I had used BoughtX and it worked fine. That was back then, but this time it did not.

    Solution: From Help I found that to add shares without executing a Buy transaction, use Add - Shares Added. That worked and all is well.

    That doesn't make any sense at all.

    You used cash to purchase shares of a mutual fund.  You should use the cash that was transferred into that Quicken account.

    And when you BOUGHT shares of the mutual fund, did you tell Quicken what the amount was for the BUY?  If you left the share price blank, Quicken would have calculated the share price based on the number of shares and the total amount of the purchase.

    Add Shares is DEFINITELY not the correct transaction function to use in this case.  It's a BUY...and yes, it does make a huge difference in investment calculations. 

    But you're happy with the results...so have fun with that. 
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    I suspect the user is operating with Single Mutual Fund accounts such that the Cash Transfers etc. are not really applicable and the SellX and BoughtX variations are the 'natural' operations for those types of accounts.  

    As to why the Securities value came to $0, I don't know.  I would have been looking to edit that BoughtX transaction and would have reviewed the price history information for that security.  The Add Shares, while it might have worked, does not properly account for the cash.  
  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    jiw said:

    Thank you for both responses.

    gmalis1: I did try the two step process you suggested, but the Securities Value was still $0.

    Tom: Yes, the SoldX action did place the shares in the new account; but the Securities Value was $0. So I checked back to previous transactions where I had moved shares from one account to another, and found that with the new account I had used BoughtX and it worked fine. That was back then, but this time it did not.

    Solution: From Help I found that to add shares without executing a Buy transaction, use Add - Shares Added. That worked and all is well.

    "Tom: Yes, the SoldX action did place the shares in the new account; but the Securities Value was $0."

    Something's wrong here because that sentence makes no sense.  Here's Quicken's definition of the Sell/SellX actions (emphasis added):

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Sell, SellX  Sale of a security, with proceeds received in the account (Sell), or transferred to another account (SellX)."
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    A SellX should have left you with no securities in the old Account and cash in the amount of the proceeds in the new Account.

    Then you 'd simply use the cash in the new Account to buy whatever securities you ended up buying.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    jiw said:

    Thank you for both responses.

    gmalis1: I did try the two step process you suggested, but the Securities Value was still $0.

    Tom: Yes, the SoldX action did place the shares in the new account; but the Securities Value was $0. So I checked back to previous transactions where I had moved shares from one account to another, and found that with the new account I had used BoughtX and it worked fine. That was back then, but this time it did not.

    Solution: From Help I found that to add shares without executing a Buy transaction, use Add - Shares Added. That worked and all is well.

    I disagree with your statement that a SELLX leaves you with NO securities in the old account.

    A SELLX is basically two transactions in one...a SELL transaction and the transfer of funds to another account.

    It does NOT have not have to be a sale of ALL shares of that security in that account.  It can be a sale of a set number of shares...ie a portion of the holdings.  
  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    jiw said:

    Thank you for both responses.

    gmalis1: I did try the two step process you suggested, but the Securities Value was still $0.

    Tom: Yes, the SoldX action did place the shares in the new account; but the Securities Value was $0. So I checked back to previous transactions where I had moved shares from one account to another, and found that with the new account I had used BoughtX and it worked fine. That was back then, but this time it did not.

    Solution: From Help I found that to add shares without executing a Buy transaction, use Add - Shares Added. That worked and all is well.

    I answered in that fashion as I was under the impression that the old account had been closed out. But of course you are correct.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    jiw said:

    Thank you for both responses.

    gmalis1: I did try the two step process you suggested, but the Securities Value was still $0.

    Tom: Yes, the SoldX action did place the shares in the new account; but the Securities Value was $0. So I checked back to previous transactions where I had moved shares from one account to another, and found that with the new account I had used BoughtX and it worked fine. That was back then, but this time it did not.

    Solution: From Help I found that to add shares without executing a Buy transaction, use Add - Shares Added. That worked and all is well.

    And I find that for some stupid reason, Quicken will have problems with BOUGHTX and SELLX transactions in certain reporting instances.

    Don't ask me why.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    "I suspect the user is operating with Single Mutual Fund accounts such that the Cash Transfers etc. are not really applicable and the SellX and BoughtX variations are the 'natural' operations for those types of accounts."

    That is correct, I am using Single Mutual Fund accounts.

    When I make the transaction on the brokerage firm website, I tell it to sell shares from one fund and use the proceeds to buy shares in the new fund. Then, when entering the transaction in Quicken, I have always used SoldX in the first account and BoughtX in the new account. That has always worked, until this time. And this is the first time I have made such a transaction since upgrading to Quicken 2016.

    No matter how I configured the transaction -- and I spent three days trying every variation I could think of -- the correct shares and price per share ended up in the new account; but, the Securities Value was always $0 and the Share Bal was in italics.

    Finally, I found this in Help:

    "What if I need to move shares in or add shares to my investment account without executing a Buy transaction?"

    1. Open the account you want to use. 
    2. Click Enter Transactions. 
    3. In the Enter Transaction list, select Add - Shares Added. 
    4. Fill in the requested information. 

    That is what I did and it worked. The shares are in the right place, the figures are all correct, the Securities Value is correct, and I am satisfied.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    jiw said:

    "I suspect the user is operating with Single Mutual Fund accounts such that the Cash Transfers etc. are not really applicable and the SellX and BoughtX variations are the 'natural' operations for those types of accounts."

    That is correct, I am using Single Mutual Fund accounts.

    When I make the transaction on the brokerage firm website, I tell it to sell shares from one fund and use the proceeds to buy shares in the new fund. Then, when entering the transaction in Quicken, I have always used SoldX in the first account and BoughtX in the new account. That has always worked, until this time. And this is the first time I have made such a transaction since upgrading to Quicken 2016.

    No matter how I configured the transaction -- and I spent three days trying every variation I could think of -- the correct shares and price per share ended up in the new account; but, the Securities Value was always $0 and the Share Bal was in italics.

    Finally, I found this in Help:

    "What if I need to move shares in or add shares to my investment account without executing a Buy transaction?"

    1. Open the account you want to use. 
    2. Click Enter Transactions. 
    3. In the Enter Transaction list, select Add - Shares Added. 
    4. Fill in the requested information. 

    That is what I did and it worked. The shares are in the right place, the figures are all correct, the Securities Value is correct, and I am satisfied.

    The problem here is twofold.

    One is...you DID execute a BUY.  

    Two...you shouldn't have set these accounts up as single mutual funds.  That's too restrictive in the way Quicken can handle transactions, as you can see.  

    For the life of me, I don't understand why Quicken even has that option.  It shouldn't even be there.

    Your way works...just not the correct way.  And, as noted before, reports will not properly account for the cash.  
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