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Quicken 2016 RPM immediately creates incorrect placeholder upon security purchase

Unknown
Unknown Member
edited October 2018 in Investing (Windows)
Hi folks, I have a UBS investment account, and opted for having a separate linked checking account.  In general, things work well.

Earlier this year I sold a bunch of securities and have decided to stay in almost-cash, the funds were invested in symbol STFXX, i.e. UBS TAX-FREE RESERVES.

Some months later I went to sell some chunks of this to make new security purchases, Quicken wanted to record them as short sales.  Turns out Quicken had added a placeholder showing a subtraction of exactly the same number of shares I had bought, so as far as it was concerned, I had a zero share balance, which meant that the only way I could sell shares would be to short sale them.  

Since I only had about 6 total transactions of STFXX, I decided to delete them all and then re-add each one manually, watching the Security Detail View screen.  Sure enough, as soon as I enter the first purchase, Quicken creates a placeholder subtracting it back out.  (first photo)

My guess is this means that when Quicken talks to UBS, UBS is telling Quicken that I have zero shares of that security, so Quicken has to create the placeholder to make the balance the same. But when I log into UBS, UBS *does* indeed show me having shares of the STFXX fund. 

Not sure what to do here...I thought maybe I'd delete the security from the list and re-enter all transactions manually, but that option is greyed out, even if I've deleted all transactions regarding it.

Fix or workaround?  Is there any visibility into the information that Quicken gets from the financial institution, specifically the institutions view of # of shares held of each security?

Thanks in advance!image

Comments

  • UKR
    UKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    Quicken knows from Holdings information downloaded from the brokerage that you currently hold zero shares of this fund.

    When you entered your first Buy, Quicken created the placeholder to indicate that you have a holdings mismatch.
    Reenter any subsequent Buy and Sell transactions in chronological order and the placeholder should disappear when your actual holdings, based on your transactions, match the downloaded holdings again.

    By the way, is it possible that you're looking at two separate similarly named securities, the one you showed in the above image and another one as per UBS? You know ... different security name, same ticker ...?

  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    It is possible that UBS chooses not to report the STFXX shares with their holding data such that Quicken would then offer a placeholder.  You have the option to not accept that placeholder.  

    You can got the Help -- Log Files -- OFX logs route to see what UBS actually sent.  Save a TXT file copy of the log, then access that version to get a search function as you review the logs.  

    I would delete the placeholder(s) and not accept one in the future. After deleting the placeholder(s), you may need to delete and re-enter transactions that change the share balance dated after the placeholder date(s).  
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited October 2018
    Hi folks,

    @UKR, I kind of suspect that your last sentence is what is going on, i.e. somehow it's not matching the security, it thinks there are two separate ones...

    @q.lurker, in the log file, there is some reference to STFXX, so I guess UBS thinks I hold some shares?

    <SECNAME>UBS TAX-FREE RESERVES         FUND CLASS A<TICKER>STFXX<FIID>3A0KQ0<UNITPRICE>1.00000000<DTASOF>20171208120000.000[-5:EST]</SECINFO><MFTYPE>OPENEND<YIELD>0.0000<DTYIELDASOF>19000101120000.000[-5:EST]</MFINFO><MFINFO><SECINFO><SECID><UNIQUEID>541JH4<UNIQUEIDTYPE>PWSECID</SECID>

    Finally, just as a test, I went and put in a fake transaction saying I had bought a security I don't own, Broadcom, expecting that it would put in a negative placeholder for the same number of shares (as it had with STFXX), but it didn't!  

    So some pieces are coming together, but clearly I still don't really understand what's going on...

    How does one simply nix the placeholder?

    Thanks!
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017

    Hi folks,

    @UKR, I kind of suspect that your last sentence is what is going on, i.e. somehow it's not matching the security, it thinks there are two separate ones...

    @q.lurker, in the log file, there is some reference to STFXX, so I guess UBS thinks I hold some shares?

    <SECNAME>UBS TAX-FREE RESERVES         FUND CLASS A<TICKER>STFXX<FIID>3A0KQ0<UNITPRICE>1.00000000<DTASOF>20171208120000.000[-5:EST]</SECINFO><MFTYPE>OPENEND<YIELD>0.0000<DTYIELDASOF>19000101120000.000[-5:EST]</MFINFO><MFINFO><SECINFO><SECID><UNIQUEID>541JH4<UNIQUEIDTYPE>PWSECID</SECID>

    Finally, just as a test, I went and put in a fake transaction saying I had bought a security I don't own, Broadcom, expecting that it would put in a negative placeholder for the same number of shares (as it had with STFXX), but it didn't!  

    So some pieces are coming together, but clearly I still don't really understand what's going on...

    How does one simply nix the placeholder?

    Thanks!

    If you haven't already, you may want to review: https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-faq-managing-placeholder-entries-in-quic...
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017

    Hi folks,

    @UKR, I kind of suspect that your last sentence is what is going on, i.e. somehow it's not matching the security, it thinks there are two separate ones...

    @q.lurker, in the log file, there is some reference to STFXX, so I guess UBS thinks I hold some shares?

    <SECNAME>UBS TAX-FREE RESERVES         FUND CLASS A<TICKER>STFXX<FIID>3A0KQ0<UNITPRICE>1.00000000<DTASOF>20171208120000.000[-5:EST]</SECINFO><MFTYPE>OPENEND<YIELD>0.0000<DTYIELDASOF>19000101120000.000[-5:EST]</MFINFO><MFINFO><SECINFO><SECID><UNIQUEID>541JH4<UNIQUEIDTYPE>PWSECID</SECID>

    Finally, just as a test, I went and put in a fake transaction saying I had bought a security I don't own, Broadcom, expecting that it would put in a negative placeholder for the same number of shares (as it had with STFXX), but it didn't!  

    So some pieces are coming together, but clearly I still don't really understand what's going on...

    How does one simply nix the placeholder?

    Thanks!

    That is the start on the log files.  From there for my FI, I'd be looking for a sequence like: 

    <INVPOS>
    <SECID><UNIQUEID>xxxxxxxxx<UNIQUEIDTYPE>CUSIP</SECID><HELDINACCT>OTHER
    <POSTYPE>LONG
    <UNITS>________
    <UNITPRICE>59.68
    <MKTVAL>______.__
    <DTPRICEASOF>20170428160000.000[-5:EST]
    <MEMO>Price as of date based on closing price
    </INVPOS>

    where the Unique ID info xxxxxxxx might match up with your security info.  Units would be shares held and the UnitPrice would naturally be 1.00.  I believe that sequence is the Position statement that the OFX protocol looks for, but there could be some FI-specific variations.  My FI operates off of CUSIP info as the internal security ID.  
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited October 2018
    Hey folks, I seem to almost be there.  For whatever reason, this time around, by deleting and re-entering all transactions related to this security (fortunately only about 8), it no longer needs the placeholder.

    The only problem is : when I enter the initial buy transaction, and a few times when I sold some shares, Quicken converts my BoughtX into a simple Bought transaction, and no transfer is made to/from the linked checking account.  Any attempt to edit these transactions later, it simply doesn't give me the option to specify where the funds are coming from (prob since it forces the Bought, not BoughtX transaction).

    Any further thoughts?  Thanks!
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017

    Hey folks, I seem to almost be there.  For whatever reason, this time around, by deleting and re-entering all transactions related to this security (fortunately only about 8), it no longer needs the placeholder.

    The only problem is : when I enter the initial buy transaction, and a few times when I sold some shares, Quicken converts my BoughtX into a simple Bought transaction, and no transfer is made to/from the linked checking account.  Any attempt to edit these transactions later, it simply doesn't give me the option to specify where the funds are coming from (prob since it forces the Bought, not BoughtX transaction).

    Any further thoughts?  Thanks!

    IRA accounts don't support BoughtX (or SoldX). I suspect this is to simplify the logic enabling Quicken to track the cash flow in and out of the account.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited December 2017

    Hey folks, I seem to almost be there.  For whatever reason, this time around, by deleting and re-entering all transactions related to this security (fortunately only about 8), it no longer needs the placeholder.

    The only problem is : when I enter the initial buy transaction, and a few times when I sold some shares, Quicken converts my BoughtX into a simple Bought transaction, and no transfer is made to/from the linked checking account.  Any attempt to edit these transactions later, it simply doesn't give me the option to specify where the funds are coming from (prob since it forces the Bought, not BoughtX transaction).

    Any further thoughts?  Thanks!

    It's not an IRA...just a regular UBS investment account with linked checking account....
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017

    Hey folks, I seem to almost be there.  For whatever reason, this time around, by deleting and re-entering all transactions related to this security (fortunately only about 8), it no longer needs the placeholder.

    The only problem is : when I enter the initial buy transaction, and a few times when I sold some shares, Quicken converts my BoughtX into a simple Bought transaction, and no transfer is made to/from the linked checking account.  Any attempt to edit these transactions later, it simply doesn't give me the option to specify where the funds are coming from (prob since it forces the Bought, not BoughtX transaction).

    Any further thoughts?  Thanks!

    ... it no longer needs the placeholder.
    But did you delete the placeholder, and did you opt (Edit / Preferences / Investment Transactions) to Show Hidden transactions to possibly see and delete other hidden placeholders?
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited October 2018
    OK, so one more experiment peformed.

    I went and turned on the "show hidden transactions"  under preferences/investments.

    Now if I try to enter one of the previous transactions for example the first BoughtX, here it what happens.

    1. BoughtX is converted to Bought.  
    2. Quicken creates an XIn transaction immediately above with the description "Balancing Cash Adjustment"  and showing the linked checking account as the xfer account.
    3. But the corresponding entry doesn't show up in the linked account!
    4. Furthermore, if I right-click on this XIn transaction, it does NOT give me the option "go to matching transfer" as it normally does in these situations.

    BTW, I'm totally OK with a kludgy workaround and just moving on, the problem is that so far everything I've tried leaves the balances screwed up, essentially the same funds are appearing twice, both in the main account and the linked checking account.

    Thanks to everyone up until now for the quick replies and thoughtful suggestions!

    Tm
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017

    Hey folks, I seem to almost be there.  For whatever reason, this time around, by deleting and re-entering all transactions related to this security (fortunately only about 8), it no longer needs the placeholder.

    The only problem is : when I enter the initial buy transaction, and a few times when I sold some shares, Quicken converts my BoughtX into a simple Bought transaction, and no transfer is made to/from the linked checking account.  Any attempt to edit these transactions later, it simply doesn't give me the option to specify where the funds are coming from (prob since it forces the Bought, not BoughtX transaction).

    Any further thoughts?  Thanks!

    An investment account with a linked checking account (Yes for Show cash in a checking account) should not allow Bought (or Sold) transactions to be entered in the investment account as all cash should be in the checking register. 
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017

    OK, so one more experiment peformed.

    I went and turned on the "show hidden transactions"  under preferences/investments.

    Now if I try to enter one of the previous transactions for example the first BoughtX, here it what happens.

    1. BoughtX is converted to Bought.  
    2. Quicken creates an XIn transaction immediately above with the description "Balancing Cash Adjustment"  and showing the linked checking account as the xfer account.
    3. But the corresponding entry doesn't show up in the linked account!
    4. Furthermore, if I right-click on this XIn transaction, it does NOT give me the option "go to matching transfer" as it normally does in these situations.

    BTW, I'm totally OK with a kludgy workaround and just moving on, the problem is that so far everything I've tried leaves the balances screwed up, essentially the same funds are appearing twice, both in the main account and the linked checking account.

    Thanks to everyone up until now for the quick replies and thoughtful suggestions!

    Tm

    Sounds like you did not delete all of the placeholders.  To help resolve the issue, you may want to allow Quicken to temporarily show the cash in the investment register.  After you "resolve" all of the placeholders, you can choose to show the cash in a checking account again.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017

    Hey folks, I seem to almost be there.  For whatever reason, this time around, by deleting and re-entering all transactions related to this security (fortunately only about 8), it no longer needs the placeholder.

    The only problem is : when I enter the initial buy transaction, and a few times when I sold some shares, Quicken converts my BoughtX into a simple Bought transaction, and no transfer is made to/from the linked checking account.  Any attempt to edit these transactions later, it simply doesn't give me the option to specify where the funds are coming from (prob since it forces the Bought, not BoughtX transaction).

    Any further thoughts?  Thanks!

    Which brings to mind the possibility of:
    • (Backup First!)
    • Turn off the linked checking (No for Show cash in a checking account)
    • All those checking transactions should get moved back to the investment account.  All the BoughtX and SellX should revert to Bought and Sell transactions.
    • Personally, I'd probably exit and restart Quicken in the interim.  Not sure if that would make a difference.
    • Then Turn the option back on (Yes for Show cash in a checking account).  All the "Cash" related transactions should revert back to the linked account, all the Bought and Sell transactions switch back to BoughtX and SellX
    That Linked account is supposed to be a toggle on/off option.  Maybe by going through that toggle process, whatever is amiss will get properly reset.  (Though I am a bit skeptical).   
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited December 2017
    Hi folks, I had tried so many experiments, I didn't no what I had anymore, but I realized I had made a backup from just six days ago. 

    So I reverted to the backup, and this time when I downloaded it, it told me that UBS showed me having zero shares of the said security, even though I of course do have some.  I think it might be because this is listed under the "cash and equivalents" section.

    So this time, I didn't let it create a placeholder, and all seems well.

    Thanks for all the suggestions, and I will add these hours to time I will wish I had back on my deathbed!

    Cheers!
    Tim
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